question about mint debian

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neil_fl
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question about mint debian

Post by neil_fl » Fri Feb 24, 2012 11:18 pm

i fairly new to linux, been using ubuntu for a year now,
my university needs me to use debian for a course next quarter,
is it recommended or not for me to use mint debian ?
or do i need to grab the (apparently stable) version of debian ?
and whats the unstable part of debian sid (which is used by mint) ?

edit:
also, which is lightest ?
gnome or debian or kde ?

chipbuster
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Re: question about mint debian

Post by chipbuster » Sat Feb 25, 2012 4:17 am

neil_fl wrote:i fairly new to linux, been using ubuntu for a year now,
my university needs me to use debian for a course next quarter,
is it recommended or not for me to use mint debian ?
or do i need to grab the (apparently stable) version of debian ?
That depends on exactly why they want you to use Debian. If they just want you to have a Debian environment without all the helpful tools of Ubuntu, you should probably be okay with LMDE. On the other hand, if they want you to practice on Debian Stable, or they want everyone to have the exact same graphical interface, you'll probably want to install Debian.

Best way to find out? Ask!!
and whats the unstable part of debian sid (which is used by mint) ?
Er, not quite. Mint is based off of Debian Testing, which (if I understand correctly) is generated automatically from Debian sid by scripts. The scripts pick out packages that are unlikely to have major bugs and put them into the Testing repositories (where we get our software from). Testing is put into the "Deep Freeze" every 18 months or so, when development of new features is curtailed and focus is put on squashing bugs. Debian sid is the true unstable release, and is always in a state of breakage (I exaggerate, of course).
edit:
also, which is lightest ?
gnome or debian or kde ?
It'd be hard to compare apples to oranges. Khalid wrote up an excellent guide here:
http://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?f=90&t=54945

I suggest you read it to get a little more information. The gist is that neither GNOME nor KDE is considered lightweight.

neil_fl
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Re: question about mint debian

Post by neil_fl » Sat Feb 25, 2012 10:00 am

chipbuster wrote: That depends on exactly why they want you to use Debian. If they just want you to have a Debian environment without all the helpful tools of Ubuntu, you should probably be okay with LMDE. On the other hand, if they want you to practice on Debian Stable, or they want everyone to have the exact same graphical interface, you'll probably want to install Debian.

Best way to find out? Ask!!
they want us to have it as we are going to learn a course in system administration + some programming as well
they said any debian/debian derivative would be fine.
would mint lmde be stable for that ?

spandey
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Re: question about mint debian

Post by spandey » Sat Feb 25, 2012 10:17 am

Then it's better you install Debian. They have wiki (http://wiki.debian.org/), forums etc. for help. Please go thru their installation guide. A simple desktop installation guide is http://www.howtoforge.com/the-perfect-d ... an-squeeze to start.
Linux Mint 17 - Mate 64 Bit

chipbuster
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Re: question about mint debian

Post by chipbuster » Sat Feb 25, 2012 7:10 pm

spandey wrote:Then it's better you install Debian. They have wiki (http://wiki.debian.org/), forums etc. for help. Please go thru their installation guide. A simple desktop installation guide is http://www.howtoforge.com/the-perfect-d ... an-squeeze to start.
Eh, I would say that if "any Debian derivative would work," than LMDE should be more than okay...I mean, technically, Mint 12 and Ubuntu are Debian derivatives.
In addition, Squeeze's kernel is missing out on a LOT of kernel modules that grant chipset support (I had some poor guy who installed Debian and found that his ethernet wouldn't work because 2.6.32 didn't support the right module).

My opinion is that LMDE should be okay for that if they tell you "any Debian/Debian derivative" is okay. You'll get recent releases that have been tested by the Mint team.

EDIT: Any other opinions?

neil_fl
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Re: question about mint debian

Post by neil_fl » Sat Feb 25, 2012 7:22 pm

chipbuster wrote:
spandey wrote:Then it's better you install Debian. They have wiki (http://wiki.debian.org/), forums etc. for help. Please go thru their installation guide. A simple desktop installation guide is http://www.howtoforge.com/the-perfect-d ... an-squeeze to start.
Eh, I would say that if "any Debian derivative would work," than LMDE should be more than okay...I mean, technically, Mint 12 and Ubuntu are Debian derivatives.
In addition, Squeeze's kernel is missing out on a LOT of kernel modules that grant chipset support (I had some poor guy who installed Debian and found that his ethernet wouldn't work because 2.6.32 didn't support the right module).

My opinion is that LMDE should be okay for that if they tell you "any Debian/Debian derivative" is okay. You'll get recent releases that have been tested by the Mint team.

EDIT: Any other opinions?
Can we upgrade the kernel to 3.2?
I have also heard good things about the Liquorix kernel, would either work on squeeze ?
also if i'm going to install lmde, i do not want it to break :(
are there any specific things that break it ? like bad repo updates or something ?
all i do is school work,programming, some gaming+game server administration.

chipbuster
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Re: question about mint debian

Post by chipbuster » Sat Feb 25, 2012 9:36 pm

I believe the 3.2 kernel is coming to LMDE with update pack 4, sometime in the next month. You're always free to install it from an outside repository, of course, or compile it yourself.

There's nothing that breaks LMDE for now except anything you do to it. All of the packages in the repos are tested by the devs, so there shouldn't be anything that breaks it in the way of updates.

Of course, you can still break it yourself in a million different ways.

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Re: question about mint debian

Post by neil_fl » Sun Feb 26, 2012 2:15 am

im sorry, i still don't get the part of how lmde would break ? :(
still too new to linux :oops:

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viking777
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Re: question about mint debian

Post by viking777 » Sun Feb 26, 2012 7:38 am

Have you not heard of dual/multi booting?

Install LMDE, Debian, Ubuntu and anything else you fancy at the same time.

It is really very easy to do these days and you will learn a lot more as well.
Fujitsu Lifebook AH532. Intel i5 processor, 6Gb ram, Intel HD3000 graphics, Intel Audio/wifi. Realtek RTL8111/8168B Ethernet.Lubuntu 13.10,Ubuntu12.10 (Unity), Mint16 (Cinnamon), Manjaro (Xfce).

neil_fl
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Re: question about mint debian

Post by neil_fl » Sun Feb 26, 2012 10:10 am

i plan on keeping only 2 os's as i have only a 250gb hdd and i need windows for some other class requirements.
thus my confusion on which one to go with :mrgreen:

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Re: question about mint debian

Post by viking777 » Sun Feb 26, 2012 11:28 am

I have got 5 OS's on a 250Gb drive (including Vista) and I have still got 60Gb of empty space. But I am not trying to twist your arm over anything, I would suggest that if your uni says 'any debian or debian derivative' that probably includes ubuntu as well since it is a debian derivative. I would go for LMDE myself but that is because it is my favourite distro (and ubuntu is horrible at the moment anyway, I just tried it out and quickly switched back again). As to which 'type' of LMDE, I personally would only use debian testing repos, I don't like the update packs in the least. Your problem with that route is that it has been a long time since the LMDE iso's were produced and therefore once installed they have literally hundreds of updates waiting, and installing that many updates at one time is almost guaranteed to break something - that is why I don't like the update packs, if you update a little at a time you are far less prone to breakages (or at least if you get breakages they are easier to sort out). LMDE testing has been stable for a long time now and is likely to remain so as the imminent debian 'freeze' period dries up the flow of updates for it.

Good luck whatever you decide :)
Fujitsu Lifebook AH532. Intel i5 processor, 6Gb ram, Intel HD3000 graphics, Intel Audio/wifi. Realtek RTL8111/8168B Ethernet.Lubuntu 13.10,Ubuntu12.10 (Unity), Mint16 (Cinnamon), Manjaro (Xfce).

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Re: question about mint debian

Post by widget » Sun Feb 26, 2012 3:29 pm

neil_fl wrote:
chipbuster wrote: That depends on exactly why they want you to use Debian. If they just want you to have a Debian environment without all the helpful tools of Ubuntu, you should probably be okay with LMDE. On the other hand, if they want you to practice on Debian Stable, or they want everyone to have the exact same graphical interface, you'll probably want to install Debian.

Best way to find out? Ask!!
they want us to have it as we are going to learn a course in system administration + some programming as well
they said any debian/debian derivative would be fine.
would mint lmde be stable for that ?
Use Debian.

The idea here is to actually learn something and the platform choosen is what the class is based on. All Debian dirivitives change some things. Ubuntu, for instance, is a Debian dirivitive and many of the paths have heen changed in it.

You also asked about "light/heavy" in relation to Gnome, Debian and KDE.

Debian is an OS.

Gnome and KDE are DE's (Desktop Environments).

If you are looking for an OS comparison Debian is lighter than Ubuntu if you have a fresh, clean install of both with the same DE.

Gnome and KDE are both relatively heavy compared to Lxde and Xfce.

If you want a light DE to go with your Debian install I would recommend Xfce. This is something that you should check with the instructor on though. May want, for simplicity, to have everyone on the same page.

I would recommend just installing Debian 6 Squeeze which is the Stable release. You are trying to learn programming. Use something stable.

Debian Squeeze is their stable release. Debian has the reputation for stability. Their stable releases are stable. Also kind of boring. That is the main reason a lot of folks use testing (currently Wheezy) or Sid (always unstable).

Testing and Sid are also a little more on the cutting edge. This is not something you need for this coarxe of study.

To give you an idea of Debian stability compared to Ubuntu consider this. Ubuntu uses Debian Sid as the base for its "normal" releases. They use Debian testing for the base of their LTS releases (Long Term Service releases such as 8.04, 10.04 and soon 12.04). Note that Debian stable is not used there at all. Most folks seem to thing Ubuntu is pretty stable. It is not as stable as Debian stable.
Dell XPS 420 Core2 Quad Q 6600, audigy5.1, Radeon HD 6450 - currently 4 320Gb HDD, Debian Squeeze for secure use, Debian testing for daily use, Debian Sid for fun.

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Re: question about mint debian

Post by neil_fl » Sun Feb 26, 2012 5:39 pm

@viking777
is debian testing the default repo's for lmde ?
also i would like try out squeeze by live disc soon and check if it supports all my chipsets
is there a particular way to check if all are supported ?

and o ubuntu's latest is a pain at times :(

@widget
i shall inquire with my TA about xfce :)
thanks for the explanation ! i appreciate it!

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Re: question about mint debian

Post by chipbuster » Mon Feb 27, 2012 1:53 am

neil_fl wrote:@viking777
is debian testing the default repo's for lmde ?
also i would like try out squeeze by live disc soon and check if it supports all my chipsets
is there a particular way to check if all are supported ?

and o ubuntu's latest is a pain at times :(
Debian Squeeze offers LiveDisk downloads. Unfortunately, as far as I know, they're all DVD-sized.

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Re: question about mint debian

Post by viking777 » Mon Feb 27, 2012 5:58 am

is debian testing the default repo's for lmde ?
Not any more, if you want to use 'testing' you have to change to that nowadays. The default is linuxmint 'latest' which uses the update pack system.

All you need to know is in zerozero's thread here:

http://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.p ... 05&start=0
Fujitsu Lifebook AH532. Intel i5 processor, 6Gb ram, Intel HD3000 graphics, Intel Audio/wifi. Realtek RTL8111/8168B Ethernet.Lubuntu 13.10,Ubuntu12.10 (Unity), Mint16 (Cinnamon), Manjaro (Xfce).

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Re: question about mint debian

Post by neil_fl » Mon Feb 27, 2012 3:23 pm

chipbuster wrote:
Debian Squeeze offers LiveDisk downloads. Unfortunately, as far as I know, they're all DVD-sized.
so all i have to do is run it live and check if it runs ?
viking777 wrote:
Not any more, if you want to use 'testing' you have to change to that nowadays. The default is linuxmint 'latest' which uses the update pack system.

All you need to know is in zerozero's thread here:

http://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.p ... 05&start=0
thanks
sure i shall check it out !

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Re: question about mint debian

Post by chipbuster » Mon Feb 27, 2012 5:56 pm

neil_fl wrote:
chipbuster wrote:
Debian Squeeze offers LiveDisk downloads. Unfortunately, as far as I know, they're all DVD-sized.
so all i have to do is run it live and check if it runs ?
Yeah. Burn the LiveDVD image to a DVD and let 'er rip.

Just make sure you use the LIVE image. Unlike Ubuntu, Debian uses two different disks: one if you want to try live, and one if you want to install. (I think, at least. Someone correct me if I'm wrong)

neil_fl
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Re: question about mint debian

Post by neil_fl » Mon Feb 27, 2012 7:53 pm

chipbuster wrote:
Yeah. Burn the LiveDVD image to a DVD and let 'er rip.

Just make sure you use the LIVE image. Unlike Ubuntu, Debian uses two different disks: one if you want to try live, and one if you want to install. (I think, at least. Someone correct me if I'm wrong)
awesome, so far with the live disk, everything worked fine

@viking777
also on this thread,
http://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.p ... 05&start=0

zerozero said that there were "security issues" with lmde, security holes etc.
what are these security issues ?

zerozero
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Re: question about mint debian

Post by zerozero » Mon Feb 27, 2012 8:21 pm

neil_fl,
probably i said no such thing :D you can find a very brief Q&A about security in section 2 - Q1 (and as always with links to further study the subject)
Image

[ bliss of ignorance ]

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Re: question about mint debian

Post by widget » Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:02 pm

One thing that you should know about Debian is that they try very hard to offer, by default, only FOSS packages (Free Open Source Software). The linux kernel, for instance includes some firmware that does not meet Debians standards and they remove it.

They do offer most nonfree software on their servers in the nonfree repos. One thing most people should install as soon as they get their install up and running is the package "firmware-linux-nonfree".

You will have to enable the nonfree repos in your /etc/apt/sources.list. Mine looks like this;
deb ftp://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ squeeze main contrib non-free
## deb-src ftp://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ squeeze main contrib non-free

## deb http://security.debian.org/ squeeze/updates main contrib non-free
## deb-src ftp://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ squeeze/updates main

## squeeze-updates, previously known as 'volatile'
deb ftp://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ squeeze-updates main contrib non-free
## deb-src http://mirror.cpsc.ucalgary.ca/mirror/d ... rg/debian/ squeeze-updates main

# Debian Stable Backports
# For information visit
# http://www.backports.org/dokuwiki/doku. ... structions
# Secure apt: apt-get install debian-backports-keyring
## deb http://backports.debian.org/debian-backports squeeze-backports main contrib non-free
## deb-src http://backports.debian.org/debian-backports squeeze-backports main

## debian multimedia
deb http://www.debian-multimedia.org squeeze main non-free
## deb-src http://www.debian-multimedia.org squeeze main non-free
note that I have all the sources repos commented out (## ), don't need all that. Can be enabled by un commenting (remove the ## ) if I need them. I also do not use the backports repo. You may want all of them.

As this is not a Debian forum I suggest the;
http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/debian-26/
as a good place to get answers.

Watch out for some strange character from SE Montana. Guy is nuts. Goes by widget.
Dell XPS 420 Core2 Quad Q 6600, audigy5.1, Radeon HD 6450 - currently 4 320Gb HDD, Debian Squeeze for secure use, Debian testing for daily use, Debian Sid for fun.

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