Virtual Machine for programs and games?

[SyncroScales]

Hi,

I was wondering if people have set up virtual machines to specifically have a gaming OS within their main OS? Probably for Windows or Linux. I am not sure about tablet/phone or Apple Mac programs.

And are there users who set up machines to use and or install .deb or .tar and other programs that are not in the Software Manager? Maybe for the newest releases instead of older versions in the Software Manager?

Would you separate them and have multiple OS's for each type of the programs or games (single or multi player)?

Does this help with networking, multi-player or stuff related to connecting to other servers?

I don't know if it is necessary for group chat (Skype, WhatsApp, VoIP, etc)? Or for school or work?

I am just curious.

Thanks.

[gittiest personITW]

Depends on the game/the computer hardware/how much you are willing to sacrifice in terms of speed.

[AndyMH]

General consensus is not for games or anything graphics intensive. Also note from your sig that you don't have much RAM in your PCs. I run my win VMs with half my RAM, my PCs either have 8 or 16GB RAM.

[SyncroScales]

Depends on the game/the computer hardware/how much you are willing to sacrifice in terms of speed.

How bad can this get? Say you want 1080p or 4k med - high settings.

About security: Do people on this forum who game use a different system from their main? For security? I don't understand about this part of how to keep your system more secure or locked down.

The live streaming, multiplayer, multiple web-sites and social media stuff. It's a bigger attack surface?

I don't know about Steam, gog.com, new titles, any AAA titles, etc. I just tested some stuff from the Package Manager to see how it runs on the hardware I am using. I am not a gamer, the music is good. The quality and FPS for the hardware being used was good. High, higher settings, I was getting 60-90+ FPS. But that is in game FPS and not how a screen capture might handle it, or multiple tasks from system and programs during gameplay.

The programing and games in the Software Manager themselves are done quite well. Even though they are not the newest. I think it could use some more styles of games for who would use that section.

Using screen capture and media programs to handle the files is useful, and more of what I am trying to understand.

AndyMH: I was trying to get Windows XP working to test it as a VM. I gave it half the RAM 2G and processor 2 cores, 1.7GHz, but have had to tweak it. I have not been able to get anything intensive to work with that project though. Yes the systems need some better hardware.

[greengnome]

I keep a Debian VM with an old version of Nethack on it and a save game I one day want to finish. Not sure if that counts
Never tried Windows games through VM, but I run Visual Studio that way.

[AndyMH]

About security: Do people on this forum who game use a different system from their main? For security? I don't understand about this part of how to keep your system more secure or locked down.

Comes up with monotonous regularity. I do nothing special, I've already taken the most important step - I use linux. WRT win VMs - I do not access the internet from them. Bad practice - I share the whole of home with my VMs, bad idea, restrict shares in your VM to single folders. Do not install wine - gives the system an ability to run .exe (it will still ask before doing), broken that one as well, I use crossover (the commercial version of wine). Dual boot - win cannot read linux filesystems, you can install utilities in win to do this, my view - bad idea. In the end it comes down to how paranoid do you want to be. I don't game.

The programing and games in the Software Manager themselves are done quite well. Even though they are not the newest. I think it could use some more styles of games for who would use that section.

The principal goal of mint is stability and reliability. That is why you don't get the 'latest and greatest'. If you want that you need to use a 'rolling release', e.g. Arch linux (with all the attendant problems that come with them, like breaking your system). Generally if you use a rolling release you need a lot more linux-fu, I want an easy life, mint 'just works'.

[absque fenestris]

...
And are there users who set up machines to use and or install .deb or .tar and other programs that are not in the Software Manager? Maybe for the newest releases instead of older versions in the Software Manager?
...

Hi SyncroScales
I have loaded all current Mint variants and Debian KDE in VirtualBox for this very purpose. 4 GB RAM and 4 cores are provided per virtual OS.
The results are mixed - for example Firefox runs well, Vivaldi is sluggish - GIMP runs surprisingly well, Krita on the other hand is unusable. Other programs somewhere in between... this on my laptop, on other hardware it might look completely different.
VirtualBox is certainly suitable for trying out a program and taking a closer look at it. If something goes wrong, such a virtual operation system is quickly deleted (...and VirtualBox snapshots are quickly loaded again).
As you can see, a general statement can hardly be made, because programs behave too differently and unpredictably, but VirtualBox is definitely worth a try (and is also fun, if you like to play around with systems and programs).

[SyncroScales]

Thanks for the infromation.

What I am not fully understanding is the snap shot, save the machine state, send shut-down signal, power down.

So the Snap shot will not let time pass in the VM? Does the actual date change this? E.G.: Trying to get an old copy of Windows activated after 30 days have passed because of closing the virtual machine, the 30 days passing has been noted in the OS. A snap shot will not do that?

How do you get drivers, programs, etc to install into a Windows VM? I made another .vdi partition/file onto a second drive. But I cannot drag and drop things into it.

[iliketrains]

Assuming this conversation is about virtualbox..........
If the plan is running a Windows guest on Linux host for gaming there's a potential problem.
Depending on the version of Windows and the version of virtualbox there may be no 3D acceleration.
Check the virtualbox manuals and forum to read about those limitations.

At one time Microsoft made available a free image for developers that needed to be "re-armed" periodically. I ran Windows 7 in virtualbox that way for a while. That may still be a possibility or maybe not. These days when I need Windows it's as a dual boot.

[AndyMH]

Depending on the version of Windows and the version of virtualbox there may be no 3D acceleration.

Win7, 3D acceleration is fine, win10 not, from memory the win menu wasn't displaying correctly. Win7 is fine in seamless mode, win10 not, I still have the windows desktop.

[Petermint]

I found VM too much of an overhead when I had only 4 GB and used dual boot instead. You could dual or triple boot LM for a separation of different projects.

Games on Linux Mint improve faster than you can type out a list of what works or does not. Your favourite game might now run without anything special.

As mentioned by other people, the VM overhead for graphics can be very bad. A VM also creates extra work to mount a USB stick and perform other simple operations. I would first look at Firejail and equivalent for running Internet connected programs without the overhead of a VM. VM would be down my options list somewhere after tossing my computer in the bin and taking up swimming instead.

[Suwakoto]

Creating a virtual machine that you can play games on is absolutely doable, I have one right now. It may not give me native performance but it's close enough to the point where I don't really care. But do keep in mind that you need a fair bit of hardware oomph, something like 2 cores and 4GB of RAM won't cut it. I'd say the minimum requirements are 4 cores and 8GB of RAM, if you have something below that (or some very resource-intensive games) then dual boot will be the better option. Furthermore, to get a virtual machine capable of graphics-intensive games, you need PCI Passthrough, which can be a bit of a pain to set up, plus it requires that you learn to use KVM instead of the more popular choices of VirtualBox or VMWare.

[legacypowers]

Modern gaming on VM's for me have two pre-requisites
1 - Extra GPU for GPU passthrough
2 - Extra RAM for the VM(like having 12GB and reserving 8GB for the VM, also making sure that the VM memory is not swappable)

For programs, VM's are great for me, i totally use Windows VM them for some stuff, for example my work vm run windows, have teamviewer installed, and other proprietary tools.

[SyncroScales]

I am here to learn.

The main goal is that if and when the hardware dies, I might not be able to install Windows XP or Vista for some old programs. I do have a separate HDD with Windows on it. I can boot into that right now. It's not a problem.

I still use an old version of Corel Paint Shop Photo Pro. Just basic stuff when needed. But it will take time to get use to and use GIMP. I have old file converters incase I have trouble with video on Linux. I can't get rid of Windows yet.

3 HDD's died and 2 were new. I have to be prepared. The problem has been registering Windows XP and getting the internet working. I have to re-install it again in the VM and if I cannot update the drivers, or install all the programs and get them into the VM it is a problem.

If this ends up working, buying some extra RAM, an SSD or something else is justifiable.

[legacypowers]

3 HDD's died and 2 were new. I have to be prepared. The problem has been registering Windows XP and getting the internet working. I have to re-install it again in the VM and if I cannot update the drivers, or install all the programs and get them into the VM it is a problem.

registering XP and getting internet working in the virtual machine?

[shoaibiqbal123]

I thinks improved VRAM can help above 12gb

[AndyMH]

It's a long time since I did it, but don't recall having to register XP when I installed it in a VM. Can't remember where I downloaded it from either! I only have XP for a Saab maintenance manual which will only run under XP (not win7). If an old version of paint shop pro, it might run under wine or crossover (the commercial version of wine, you can try it for free). Does it run under win7?

Depending on how much of a 'power' user of paintshop you are it may be worth looking at pinta and krita as alternatives to gimp. They are simpler.

[HaveaMint]

I have had decent luck using a windows installation on a different drive to install some games and then going back to mint and run the game with proton through steam. Some work and some don't. I would guess that other software may have the same luck but it is a trial and error.

[Nikolai5]

I do everything locally with one exception and that is I have a windows 10 virtual machine as I also work from home where I run a restrictive VPN to a customer's system, which would otherwise screw my networking up.

Otherwise I use Proton Steam and then WINE to play classic games. I know this is technically a security issue as it means I've basically made my computer more compatible with windows exploits and added more "holes", but I value simplicity.

I've found WINE runs old games (Windows 2000 era) better than Windows does, so it may be the same for non-gaming related applications as well.

[SyncroScales]

legacypowers - Activate it over the internet or call Microsoft. I am mistaking the term. 30 days passed and I only had a black screen. A message kept telling me to call Microsoft.

Some other programs want activation or registration too. I don't know how to get around it. When activating the programs or games, etc it won't lock you out of the programs, or it enables more features.

I have looked at Krita, but am not using it. I am trying to avoid Wine and all of that. I do want to learn about the VM's.

I'll try a USB stick and see what I can do.

To make this simple, if I read all of the manuals and documentations of Virtual Box, VMWare and KVM will I be able to setup Windows XP and then start installing updates for it?, assuming Windows Update works. Then install software I want to and be able to take the patches and updates I have, to be able to put them into the VM and apply them. All of it will run as if I installed Windows XP and the software onto a Windows XP compatible computer?