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Re: Mint Debian

Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 5:36 pm
by MALsPa
Robin wrote:Is it possible to edit the sources list simply by substituting the word "Squeeze" for the word "testing?" I have read more than one opinion that even Sid is more stable than Testing (???), and stabily matters most on my aging hardware. Since Squeeze is about to become Stable, it seems to me I could have a sweet Minty Squeeze that way!

-Robin
It's possible to use "squeeze" instead of "testing." Whether or not that gives you a sweet Minty Squeeze is another story! :lol:

You would no longer have a rolling release distro. Sounds like you'd be fine with that, though.

Re: Mint Debian

Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 5:58 pm
by zerozero
just finish the installation now from the faulty iso and everything went smooth. No errors during install, i could select sdc has the target for the grub (was a concern of mine after reading above that the installer didn't give us option to choose). APT cleared fine, rebooted and i'm writing this from the fresh Mint-Debian while Synaptic updates 255 packages.

Re: Mint Debian

Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 6:00 pm
by kneekoo
@MALsPa: We could also (nick)name this project Mintian. :P

Re: Mint Debian

Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 6:12 pm
by secipolla
kneekoo wrote:Again, the missing description/maintainer issue. I understand it's harmless (thank you for confirming that, secipolla), but it really looks bad. Can something be done about this?
If you could ask APT to shut up! :)

Regarding configuration files being replaced, APT asks you about it in case you had made some custom changes in the file. If you didn't even know about it then just accept the new configuration from the package maintainer.

Re: Mint Debian

Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 6:58 pm
by nadir
shayney wrote:@ yarrgh
Plymouth (or any splash) is not part of the debian edition at this stage, I believe this is due to clem not being happy with it's problems.
However, I did try installing plymouth myself and it ran fine (on intel hardware).

@nadir
The link you posted regarding my sound card does work, to an extent.
I have tried that method before and certain things work (laptop speakers) and others don't (hdmi output when connected to external TV amongst others, headphone output very crackly).
I could probably work out those issues but it is going against my ultimate aim of an out-of-the-box dekstop without any compiling or adding of repos.
From further reading it seems all my sound issues should be solved in kernels 2.6.33 and upwards which testing doesn't have yet.
I am not good with sound stuff.
But in case a higher kernel solves your problem you got two choices:
The one is to make use of the experimental kernel from the experimental repos. As far only the kernel is concerned that shouldn't give you trouble (and you still got your testing kernel, so you won't bork the system).
If you add experimental to the sources and run apt-get update you will have to install it with that syntax:
apt-get install -t experimental linux-image-name_one_the_35_kernel.
If you add for unstable/sid it is different. You will need to edit the /etc/apt/preferences file, so testing is being set to the default repo (but for experimental it is: it only installs from experimental in case you tell it to).
Don't install other things from experimental. That is not a good idea
(even when running unstable or mixed testing/unstable one should first read a bit about how one does that in a proper way).

The other choice is to install the liquorix-kernel. It works very well.
http://liquorix.net/
Lots of people who are running Debian testing or unstable use it, and i have not heard of any problems yet.
As it is tweaked for being run on a desktop (while the stock debian kernel is rather for a server), that is the better option.
Imo, of course.

Hope this helped.

Re: Mint Debian

Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 7:26 pm
by shayney
@ nadir
After installing the experimental kernel sound is indeed working.
I would probably try the liquorix-kernel when I do a fresh "proper" install, safe in the knowledge that my sound should be working out of the box when testing gets a higher kernel.

Re: Mint Debian

Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 7:29 pm
by Robin
MALsPa wrote: It's possible to use "squeeze" instead of "testing." Whether or not that gives you a sweet Minty Squeeze is another story! :lol:

You would no longer have a rolling release distro. Sounds like you'd be fine with that, though.
Correct as usual, your MALsPaness! I want to end up with sweet Minty Debian Stable that rarely needs updating... even running Xfce or LXDE, this ol' 'puter is getting too old for the fancy new kernels that do so well on the newer machines. Can't buy a new one for a long while yet I think.

I wish I was still geek-inclined enough and had the time to help test this wonderful new project, but I'm looking forward to my sweet Minty Debian Stable (I'll make it stable just swapping "Squeeze" for "testing"), hopefully by the time Helena reaches EOL.

It's gonna be awesome!

Gleefully,
Robin

Re: Mint Debian

Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 7:50 pm
by nadir
shayney wrote:@ nadir
After installing the experimental kernel sound is indeed working.
I would probably try the liquorix-kernel when I do a fresh "proper" install, safe in the knowledge that my sound should be working out of the box when testing gets a higher kernel.
Oh, that is good.

Bout the liquorix-kernel. That is your choice. But a higher kernel will not arrive in testing for a while
(at the moment testing has just started the freeze, to prepare the release of squeeze as the stable branch. So: no new kernels in testing for now. If there will be a newer kernel in the next testing, and when, i don't know).
It shouldn't take you much more than five minutes to add the repo, add the keyrings, install the kernel install the headers, boot into it and check if it does what needs to be done. If you are not happy you might remove it again (and again: about five minutes of work). Just saying.

Re: Mint Debian

Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 7:53 pm
by darco
nadir wrote:
shayney wrote:@ nadir
After installing the experimental kernel sound is indeed working.
I would probably try the liquorix-kernel when I do a fresh "proper" install, safe in the knowledge that my sound should be working out of the box when testing gets a higher kernel.
Oh, that is good.

Bout the liquorix-kernel. That is your choice. But a higher kernel will not arrive in testing for a while
(at the moment testing has just started the freeze, to prepare the release of squeeze as the stable branch. So: no new kernels in testing for now. If there will be a newer kernel in the next testing, and when, i don't know).
It shouldn't take you much more than five minutes to add the repo, add the keyrings, install the kernel install the headers, boot into it and check if it does what needs to be done. If you are not happy you might remove it again (and again: about five minutes of work). Just saying.
I have LMDE running on a spare drive so I have nothing to lose...installed liqourix w/o any issues...well I did have to re install my vid drivers...

Re: Mint Debian

Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 8:00 pm
by shayney
nadir wrote:Bout the liquorix-kernel. That is your choice. But a higher kernel will not arrive in testing for a while
Yea I know :(
But with regards to mint debian as a long term option for me, it will *eventually* get sorted so I'm not left wondering if it will ever work.

Re: Mint Debian

Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 8:04 pm
by nadir
@darco:
Good.
The worst which might happen is that a further kernel does make trouble. In that case one removes the new and not working one and is back where one has started. Not much risk there.

@shaney: Yes, i got your point. I had problems with sound on most of my old PC's and it sure is not much fun.
As long you got it working now all seems fine.

I tested it yesterday live and got to say: i like it a lot. Very snappy
(Looks like a good long time option :-) )

Re: Mint Debian

Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 9:27 pm
by kmb42vt
So I have the 09/04/10 "approved" (buggy) .iso installed and setup for the most part. I avoided the problems with install by updating the live installer via the Update Manager before installing (thanks for the info ikey) and the install went like clockwork, no problems whatsoever.

First boot, video and audio worked fine, no problems. I installed the proprietary Nvidia driver(s) (195) via Synaptic okay but had to manually start Compiz via the terminal and and add Compiz to my start up applications in the Control Center. Once that was done, Compiz worked fine each boot. All of 175 MB usage with Compiz enabled. Removed the Nouveau drivers, btw.

Note: I also installed "gedebi" and "gdebi core" and although it works and lists any available but not installed dependencies required for a given .deb package, it doesn't install the dependencies with the package as it does in the Mint Main edition. The user has to make note of the dependencies and install them first via Synaptic or the terminal before installing the .deb package or the package fails to install. Same goes for installing a .deb via the terminal (dpkg -i filename.deb). Even if the dependencies listed are available in the repos, they will not be installed with the .deb package. It's workable if there's only a few dependencies but if there's a dozen or so, this can get rather tedious.

Other than that, the system is running great. This has to be the best Debian based distro I've ever used. Not quite up to the usual Mint user-friendly standards but for a first run it's very impressive. A hardware driver app for easier install of video drivers and such is definitely needed for newbies and Windows converts (the more the better). Need to work at breaking it but there's only so much time in the day. Guess I'll have to break it tomorrow then. :D

Re: Mint Debian

Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 9:45 pm
by randomizer
I had major issues with GRUB last night. GRUB would generate a configuration 4 or 5 times before the live-installer spat out an error and hung. Strangely enough, I tried it again this morning with no issues. All done in VirtualBox 3.6.8 FYI. Here's the pastebin if anyone is interested: http://pastebin.com/zrQc72TJ

I should also note that live-installer is still being called after booting the new installation even though it doesn't exist. It doesn't appear to be causing any issues though.

Re: Mint Debian

Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 10:50 pm
by MALsPa
kmb42vt wrote:This has to be the best Debian based distro I've ever used.
Wow! But how can it be, with all the issues mentioned in this thread?

Re: Mint Debian

Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 12:12 am
by mintnoob
Toyed around with the LiveCD and didn't seem to give my laptop any trouble. Not sure how it would be if I installed. Sorry to see so many people having issues.

Btw, I haven't used the GNOME version in a while. The new Mint Debian looks just like the regular GNOME version. What's different about it other than being a rolling release?

Re: Mint Debian

Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 1:33 am
by randomizer
Well, after playing with both the amd64 Ubuntu-based GNOME version and the Debian version, a few things are noticeable after a short tinker:

1. Mint Debian is faster. Sure it's not Arch vs Ubuntu, but it's definitely snappier, at least in a VM. Mint 9 shuts down faster but boots up slower. I restarted the two (Debian second) and I was back at the desktop faster on the Debian version even though it took longer to shut down and didn't have auto-login. Firefox also started 50-100% faster (subsequent starts were much the same between the two editions), but the versions are different so it's not a scientific test.

2. The installer is less "polished" but still much better than the Lenny GUI installer. I actually like using gparted, because it's simply faster than Ubiquity to do everything since no actions are actually applied until you finish setting up the task queue, and that means no rescanning of drives after every change.

3. No compiz as far as I can tell. I have VB Guest Additions on both and didn't get any fancy effects on Mint Debian.

4. No annoying Metacity "fixes" inherited from Ubuntu!!!! That means I can close a maximised window from the extreme corner, something that has bugged me to no end with Mint 9 and Ubuntu Lucid.

5. Get used to your optical drive being referred to as "cdrom" instead of "<disk-label>" when mounted in /media.

6. Missing a number of Ubuntu-specific apps. But you'd expect that. That means no jockey-gtk either ;)

7. RAM usage is lower. I can't say how much lower exactly because I was comparing an i386 and amd64 edition so it's not a fair comparison. MDE uses about 115MB though.

8. Give me a break, I haven't used it enough to come up with 8 thoughts yet :)

Re: Mint Debian

Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 1:40 am
by steveo314
@darco- yes i didnt have any problem combining the ubuntu ppa repos with debian. i had an install last week where i was running peppermint debian and peppermint ice debian (minus plymouth of course) no problem.

@clem- how did you get the mint plymouth theme running on lmde?? i tried several times over the last year.

Re: Mint Debian

Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 4:39 am
by viking777
I was getting on so well with this distro that I thought it was going to be my new 'default' for sure. But then yesterday afternoon I had two complete freezes following boot/reboot (by complete freeze I mean the only thing I could do was to hold down the power button to get out). I got into recovery mode played around with xorg and since then it has been alright, but now there is that nagging doubt in my mind as to if it is really as stable as the Ubuntu versions or not? I have never had such a freeze with any other Mint version.

It is not reproducible on any regular basis, it happened on two boots only and it is fine now - but will it last?

My only other minor annoyance is that Mount-gtk (a small program for mounting usb devices if you don't like automount) will only mount things if you start it with sudo privileges, on all other distros it works with user privs.

Oh yes, and Exaile doesn't work (it crashes every time you try to start a track). That is not really an issue though because VLC and Rhythybox are both fine.

EDIT. If anyone is interested I have solved the 'mount-gtk' problem. It took a while but I eventually found out that it is because my username was not in the group plugdev, once I added it, all works normally.

Also I have booted and rebooted at least a dozen times today and I have had no recurrence of the freeze problems, so it is looking good again.

Re: Mint Debian

Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 9:54 am
by craig10x
I've had sporadic boot crashes on Mint 9 KDE also...so i guess this isn't the only mint edition that has ever experienced that...though it seems to have either disappeared or is less frequent now (possible a recent kernel update might have fixed it)...

I was wondering if you can download deb files from sites (example: Google Chrome's deb file from their website) and will it install properly and automatically like it does in regular Mint? I was going to play with the live cd of Mint Debian later and was wondering if it was ok to do that?

Re: Mint Debian

Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 10:43 am
by shayney
As far as I'm aware, the chromium PPA is self contained and doesn't need anything from outside it's own repo so if that is the case it should be perfectly safe to use in debian.
Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.