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Debian Testing repos in LMDE MATE?

Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 4:32 am
by alobo
Is it true that installing from the Debian Testing repos causes
trouble in LMDE MATE? If so, why?
http://www.linuxmint.com/download_lmde.php states
"LMDE in brief
Linux Mint Debian Edition (LMDE) is a semi-rolling distribution based on Debian Testing."

Thanks
Agus

Re: Debian Testing repos in LMDE MATE?

Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 4:49 am
by kurotsugi
some people said, yes. there's two possible reason:
1. the development gap between LMDE and debian testing is too wide. LMDE last release was on last February.
2. mate in LMDE comes from LMDE devs. while debian testing now have it's own MATE. it seems that there's a conflict between LMDE package and debian's package.

AFAIK there's no direct way to upgrade LMDE-MATE into debian testing.

Re: Debian Testing repos in LMDE MATE?

Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 4:50 am
by xenopeek
LMDE uses update packs. The last update pack is from February this year (http://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=2544). So, with exception of updates for fixing security issues, the packages in LMDE from Debian testing are the versions as were available in Debian testing in February. If you install core operating system packages from Debian testing now, LMDE hasn't been tested with that and you might break things (specifically, Cinnamon or MATE). Understand that LMDE isn't just Debian testing--Linux Mint adds a lot of packages that aren't available in Debian testing (http://packages.linuxmint.com/list.php?release=Debian) and those are tested by Linux Mint with LMDE, not with Debian testing.

Debian testing will go into freeze from November, and will become the next Debian stable (Debian 8 ) next year once all testing for stable is done. LMDE will move along with that and will shift to using Debian stable as a base and move away from Debian testing. Using Debian testing repos of course is still possible in the future, but with the same warnings as above. The move to Debian stable does away with update packs; LMDE will get updates directly from Debian stable repos.

Re: Debian Testing repos in LMDE MATE?

Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 8:04 am
by alobo
What will we have to do to upgrade from the current LMDE to the next one, based on Debian stable 8?
What will happen with the "lots of packages that aren't available in Debian testing"?
Thanks
Agus

xenopeek wrote:LMDE uses update packs. The last update pack is from February this year (http://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=2544). So, with exception of updates for fixing security issues, the packages in LMDE from Debian testing are the versions as were available in Debian testing in February. If you install core operating system packages from Debian testing now, LMDE hasn't been tested with that and you might break things (specifically, Cinnamon or MATE). Understand that LMDE isn't just Debian testing--Linux Mint adds a lot of packages that aren't available in Debian testing (http://packages.linuxmint.com/list.php?release=Debian) and those are tested by Linux Mint with LMDE, not with Debian testing.

Debian testing will go into freeze from November, and will become the next Debian stable (Debian 8 ) next year once all testing for stable is done. LMDE will move along with that and will shift to using Debian stable as a base and move away from Debian testing. Using Debian testing repos of course is still possible in the future, but with the same warnings as above. The move to Debian stable does away with update packs; LMDE will get updates directly from Debian stable repos.

Re: Debian Testing repos in LMDE MATE?

Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 8:12 am
by xenopeek
You don't know Debian I take it. It may be worth your time to learn the lifecycle of Debian releases: http://debian-handbook.info/browse/stab ... cycle.html. As I already hinted at, Debian testing will freeze in November and will eventually (with minor patches) be released as Debian 8--the next Debian stable.

What you will have to do to upgrade from LMDE 1 (current) to LMDE 2 (future) will be covered in the release announcement and perhaps detailed before in the developer blog. I don't know all details yet, but IIRC the developers shared you will be able to upgrade in place without reinstalling.

The packages that Linux Mint adds on top of Debian will remain added. Expect to see a new release of Cinnamon, MATE, and of various Mint tools as part of LMDE 2; all added packages fully tested of course with the new Debian base.

Re: Debian Testing repos in LMDE MATE?

Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 11:56 am
by py-thon
I had trouble to track testing from LMDE a month ago. It broke the system because of unsolvable dependency conflicts halfway through the upgrade from Mate 1.6 (LMDE) to Mate 1.8 (Testing).

But this does not mean that you can't install packages from testing. In a lot of cases you will have to do so, because most of LMDE's packages date back to a Debian Testing snapshot from around December 2013 (to create UP 8 and LMDE 201403) and won't see any upgrade until LMDE 2 in spring 2015.

Re: Debian Testing repos in LMDE MATE?

Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 3:44 am
by alobo
But installing from testing on LMDE certainly means serious problems, such as the one I'm experiencing with mutex even when I run
mintupdate, what a shame.
Having LMDE based on such an old snapshot, considering it claims itself "being based on Debian testing" is absolutely unacceptable.

I'm so upset with this distribution, it certainly has been a very bad choice.

py-thon wrote:I had trouble to track testing from LMDE a month ago. It broke the system because of unsolvable dependency conflicts halfway through the upgrade from Mate 1.6 (LMDE) to Mate 1.8 (Testing).

But this does not mean that you can't install packages from testing. In a lot of cases you will have to do so, because most of LMDE's packages date back to a Debian Testing snapshot from around December 2013 (to create UP 8 and LMDE 201403) and won't see any upgrade until LMDE 2 in spring 2015.

Re: Debian Testing repos in LMDE MATE?

Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 3:51 am
by xenopeek
Hence its moving to Debian stable, and retiring the snapshotting method of update packs.

Re: Debian Testing repos in LMDE MATE?

Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 10:27 am
by py-thon
alobo wrote:But installing from testing on LMDE certainly means serious problems, such as the one I'm experiencing with mutex even when I run mintupdate, what a shame.
I would not consider a non-working mintupdate a serious problem. Using LMDE 19 out of 20 days there will be no update pending anyway and you can check this just as quick using terminal.
The mutex-problem could be solved by downgrading some packages (by now it can be solved by upgrading them as well). If you use packages from testing you should read the corresponding thread in this forum, but in the future that will be irrelevant as LMDE 2 will be based on Debian Stable.