Very good!killer de bug wrote:If this is finally possible:
Then LMDE2 will rock!For years new versions of software got into Linux Mint first and were then ported to LMDE. We’re thinking of changing that. New software would get into LMDE first and then into Linux Mint.
It may be me but I can't quite see how this will be consistent with LMDE2 running on Debian Stable! Does this mean that newer packages from Debian Testing (or Unstable!) will be incorporated into the new LMDE2 alongside the Debian Stable base? If so, how will this not degrade the "legendary" reliability of Debian Stable systems?killer de bug wrote:If this is finally possible:
Then LMDE2 will rock!For years new versions of software got into Linux Mint first and were then ported to LMDE. We’re thinking of changing that. New software would get into LMDE first and then into Linux Mint.
The base will not change. So no package coming from Debian Testing or Unstable.Zill wrote: It may be me but I can't quite see how this will be consistent with LMDE2 running on Debian Stable! Does this mean that newer packages from Debian Testing (or Unstable!) will be incorporated into the new LMDE2 alongside the Debian Stable base?
I will be interested to see how these packages will be pinned if they are also to be released for the wider Debian community (including forked distros) to use.killer de bug wrote:... Next version of Cinnamon will be developed for Jessie. Not for Debian Testing. Let's see if it will still be in Testing and Sid repo....
If you read what follows the passage from Clem's post that killer de bug quotes, Clem does continue by saying that LMDE2 will be a little less stable than LTS based Linux Minut:Zill wrote:It may be me but I can't quite see how this will be consistent with LMDE2 running on Debian Stable! Does this mean that newer packages from Debian Testing (or Unstable!) will be incorporated into the new LMDE2 alongside the Debian Stable base? If so, how will this not degrade the "legendary" reliability of Debian Stable systems?
Is this to be achieved through (optional) backports or some other mechanism?
I guess the unstability will come from getting the Mint sepcific package updates sooner (as others have said)? And they have said they will backport common packages like Firefox, etc.For years new versions of software got into Linux Mint first and were then ported to LMDE. We’re thinking of changing that. New software would get into LMDE first and then into Linux Mint. Getting into LMDE would mean updating Betsy, whereas getting into Linux Mint would mean being part of the next 17.x release to come.
In other words, whereas Mint 17.x would see distinct releases (Qiana, Rebecca..etc..) with opt-in upgrade paths, LMDE 2 would be continuously upgraded (it would just be Betsy basically) and simply receive updated ISO images now and then.
In line with what LMDE is to Linux Mint, this would make LMDE a tiny bit more risky than Linux Mint and a tiny bit more exciting for experienced users.
These packages are frozen at 2.2, they won't receive updates to 2.4 or newer (maybe only in jessie-backports repo).
Cinnamon is a flagship product of the Mint project. While LMDE will be based on Debian stable, Clem's announcement in segfault hints at an active backports repository in LMDE. I hope one way or another Cinnamon remains current in LMDE.These packages are frozen at 2.2, they won't receive updates to 2.4 or newer (maybe only in jessie-backports repo).
Clem says in the segfault post, and as has already be cited in this thread, that what they are considering is that "New software would get into LMDE first." It seems clear, since the stable base won't get new versions of packages, that "new software" means Mint specific software, like Cinnamon and Mate, might go to LMDE first, before even regular Linux Mint. So those desktops may be kept more up to date in LMDE Betsy, they even in regular Mint. There's also a comment on that post, where Clem further clarifies the plan:woodsman wrote:Cinnamon is a flagship product of the Mint project. While LMDE will be based on Debian stable, Clem's announcement in segfault hints at an active backports repository in LMDE. I hope one way or another Cinnamon remains current in LMDE.
Likewise with MATE too.
*It means that Betsy would receive package updates via APT (apt-get, update manager etc..) for features planned/introduced in the latest 17.x releases.
For instance, Mint 17 has Cinnamon 2.2, Mint 17.1 has Cinnamon 2.4, Mint 17.2 will have Cinnamon 2.6, Mint 17.3 will have Cinnamon 2.8… etc. On the LMDE side, Betsy has Cinnamon 2.4 at the moment, 2.6 later on, 2.8 later on… http://segfault.linuxmint.com/2015/02/a ... ent-242126
The whole idea of shifting to Debian Stable for LMDE and to LTS for regular Linux Mint is to allow both to have stable bases, while being kept up to date in the desktops and applications that they use. It's supposed to, as far as I understand, allow for more consistent and fresh up dates to the applications people actually use, by freeing up time spent on just keeping the system working, since they won't have to worry about the base so much. So in some ways LMDE and regular Mint should be more up to date and more fresh, with the new plan.Edit by Clem: Hi Mike, there won’t be any UP9 or UP10, these were snapshots, update packs. We’ll move from UP8 to Jessie, after that the base will be the same as in Debian. In terms of release management we’ll have to make sure things continue to work for both bases for a while and people can make the jump when it suits them, so at some stage we’ll have UP8 as you know it now and a set of repositories ready for you to jump to (probably very similar to how it works in Mint, with a Jessie set on packages.linuxmint.com and a Debian Jessie base). On top of Jessie, we’ll be doing something similar to what we’re doing with Trusty… i.e. you’ll get security updates and bug fixes from upstream on an ongoing basis with the same filter/policy as in mintupdate and we’ll backport popular apps, DEs and Mint tools. Based on the popularity of LMDE we’ll need to decide a few additional details when it comes to release strategy (namely multi-tracking and the ability to opt-in between point releases). http://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=2606#comment-106715
No, you're not! I cannot see how the Debian Stable base can reliably co-exist with the latest Mint specific packages and their dependencies!py-thon wrote:...Am I the only one seeing contradictions and problems in all this?
Despite my concerns about the apparent mix'n'match of packages, I do still have confidence in Clem and the team to think it all through and make it work. It's just that my aged brain has great difficulty in understanding the process...py-thon wrote:...Reading things like that makes me lose the last bit of faith in either Mint version. There does not seem to be a direction in the development anymore.
Regular Mint has a frozen base. It will be the same for 2 years and this base is older than Jessie.py-thon wrote: killer de bug speaks of the next Cinnamon version to be developed for Debian Stable and not necessarily be available in Testing and Sid. Regular Mint is based on Ubuntu which is somewhat based on Testing and Sid
Barely.that Chromium has not been updated, while Firefox has.
Getting Firefox updates in LMDE seems to always be a test of Job's patience. Firefox currently is a version behind in LMDE.Exactly. Firefox updates should be automated in LMDE.The are so many security issues with browsers and is such a dominant part of what people do, they seem like a primary package that should be kept up to date.
Firefox and flash are up to date in my install of LMDE.woodsman wrote:Barely.that Chromium has not been updated, while Firefox has.
Exactly. Firefox updates should be automated in LMDE.The are so many security issues with browsers and is such a dominant part of what people do, they seem like a primary package that should be kept up to date.
The Flash plugin, which are always security updates, suffers similarly. Currently a version behind in LMDE.
