What are you going to do - Testing/Stable LMDE/LM 10?

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mikhou
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What are you going to do - Testing/Stable LMDE/LM 10?

Post by mikhou »

I'm just curious what some of you guys are going to do in the future with your Mint installation. I am currently single-booting LMDE on my computer. This is my computer for work and play. I went with LMDE for the gains in speed, for the rolling releases, and just because I like to have the latest and greatest thing. I'm trying to decide what to do in the future, though.

Should I switch from using the Testing repo's to using the Stable repo's when Squeeze goes stable?
How bad do you think it's going to be when (as many have said) the "floodgates" open after Testing is unfrozen?
Also, from a stability standpoint, do you think that LM10 will be more stable than LMDE?
If many of the LMDE features will be built into LM10, which one will you prefer?

I'm leaning towards just sticking with LMDE (I really do like it), but I'll admit that since I need to rely on this computer, Testing becoming unfrozen makes me sorta nervous. Anyway, just curious what your future plans are and why. Thank.

mikhou
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Re: What are you going to do - Testing/Stable LMDE/LM 10?

Post by anamnesis »

If LMDE would be the only *productive* os on my pc I'd change to stable (changing testing to squeeze in the repos + adding backports). Well I've Salix on a second hdd as well. So I think I will take the risk... :lol:
flygon250
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Re: What are you going to do - Testing/Stable LMDE/LM 10?

Post by flygon250 »

I would switch to stable for now if I was using LMDE as my main OS. This will be as much of a new experience for the mint devs as it will be for people moving from Mint Ubuntu or another non-rolling distro.

Just bear in mind that Debian stable is not a rolling release, but more of a "LTS" release that will be supported for a year or two until the next Debian stable release. Updates from the Mint repositories may also cause complications on LMDE installs moved to stable (squeeze) due to possible reliance on testing-exclusive packages.

If I was in your position, I would switch to stable (squeeze) for now, but move back to testing after the devs have a better idea of the task on their hands and what they are doing, as it is testing, not stable, they are supporting and updates from the mint repos will reflect that.

Another advantage of doing it this way is that you can gauge the reactions of LMDE under non-freeze testing before deciding whether it is worth moving back to the testing or sticking with Squeeze.

As for myself, I'm sticking to testing. I'm using LMDE on a secondary machine which dual-boots Windows XP, so it's not vital for everything to be working all of the time for me.
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Re: What are you going to do - Testing/Stable LMDE/LM 10?

Post by tdockery97 »

I'm going to stay with testing. I just don't want to get stuck with outdated packages, or packages from the Mint side that may not work well a year from now on stable. I'm not really worried about borking my system because I'm using Clonezilla about every 2 weeks so that I can always go back to a reasonably up to date system if something happens. It may be a rough ride, maybe not. In my opinion we were using "testing" while using Isadora anyway. The way things come through from Ubuntu isn't much different than getting them from Sid. I think it is going to be a fun and exciting time for LMDE. I'm dual booting with Isadora, so I will probably stick with that on my other partition since it's an LTS.
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Re: What are you going to do - Testing/Stable LMDE/LM 10?

Post by anamnesis »

The problems that may be occur are mentioned by a sidux/aptosid dev:

"Using testing as a distro base has been tried many times in the past by more or less prominent distributions, and none of them succeded so far. The reasons are obvious:

1) Testing is less secure than sidux/sid or stable (see above edhunter's answer) - actually it is very unresponsible to recomend it to end users at all, distributing it to them is really bad.

2) Testing is usually not more stable than sid, and no one is responsible for stability there (except in freeze times). To make it stable enough to seriously distribute it, you would need a team of devs and testers which at least is on par with the sidux team (quality and manpower).

3) Testing as a distro is completely unsupported by Debian itself (as is sid). It gets some attention in the freeze periods, but outside of freeze it might offer you bugs like "X not starting", "unresolved Grub error" for months, while the fix is already in sid.

4) Testing can hold outdated versions of most popular software for many months, while the new version is in sid - end users usually demand latest versions and will hate you for not delivering them.

Saying that, I understand why several distros decided to give up on $buntu as a distro base - real Debian is simply the better stuff, offers a much bigger pool of packages to select from, and makes rolling releases possible."

I think point 3. is a really strong one.
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tdockery97
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Re: What are you going to do - Testing/Stable LMDE/LM 10?

Post by tdockery97 »

anamnesis wrote: 3) Testing as a distro is completely unsupported by Debian itself (as is sid). It gets some attention in the freeze periods, but outside of freeze it might offer you bugs like "X not starting", "unresolved Grub error" for months, while the fix is already in sid.

4) Testing can hold outdated versions of most popular software for many months, while the new version is in sid - end users usually demand latest versions and will hate you for not delivering them.

Saying that, I understand why several distros decided to give up on $buntu as a distro base - real Debian is simply the better stuff, offers a much bigger pool of packages to select from, and makes rolling releases possible."

I think point 3. is a really strong one.
So you're saying Sid is a better bet to use for a rolling distro?
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Re: What are you going to do - Testing/Stable LMDE/LM 10?

Post by anamnesis »

tdockery97 wrote: So you're saying Sid is a better bet to use for a rolling distro?
Well, I'd say testing has no advantage over sid. It's not more stable, and the disadvantage is that debian doesn't support testing at all (apart from freezing/bug-fixes times). But who knows LMDE is the first distro based on testing *I* know. AFAIK Kano(tix) is brewing a testing based !hellfire. Conclusion: time will tell...
jimmm33
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Re: What are you going to do - Testing/Stable LMDE/LM 10?

Post by jimmm33 »

I'm running LMDE on a T61 Thinkpad. It is my primary machine but everything is on my server. If things go wrong on an update it's not a big deal. I'm going to stick with LMDE. I'm curious to see how it works out.
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omenest
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Re: What are you going to do - Testing/Stable LMDE/LM 10?

Post by omenest »

I really expected OS reinstallation after changing my sources from testing to unstable. After updating 215 packages I'm happy to inform you that upgrading to sid didn't break the system.

I'll be keeping my eye on aptosid forums for warnings before I do system updates from now on however. :mrgreen:
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Re: What are you going to do - Testing/Stable LMDE/LM 10?

Post by vrkalak »

I upgraded my LMDE sources.list to point to Sid a couple weeks ago.

No problems with Sid (unstable) whatsoever. I have found 'unstable' to be more 'stable' than any distro I've tried before.

I use Debian Sid (unstable) with LMDE, Crunchbang Statler and Debian 5.0.6 Xfce . . . I have never had an 'unstable' update/upgrade b0rk any OS.
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zerozero
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Re: What are you going to do - Testing/Stable LMDE/LM 10?

Post by zerozero »

vrkalak wrote:I upgraded my LMDE sources.list to point to Sid a couple weeks ago.

No problems with Sid (unstable) whatsoever. I have found 'unstable' to be more 'stable' than any distro I've tried before.

I use Debian Sid (unstable) with LMDE, Crunchbang Statler and Debian 5.0.6 Xfce . . . I have never had an 'unstable' update/upgrade b0rk any OS.
I've done the same with my LMDE yesterday (pointed the sources.list to unstable).
Everything AFAIK it's fine.
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blowtorch
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Re: What are you going to do - Testing/Stable LMDE/LM 10?

Post by blowtorch »

Guys ... don't let all the ghost stories scare you ...

Let me clear the air here.

Testing is very stable. Packages migrate from Sid into Testing once they have been tested; If there are bugs in a certain package they will not migrate into Testing. :!:

As far as this "floodgate" situation, all it is, are tested packages moving on down from Sid, no different than before Squeeze was frozen, with the exception of that there will be a lot at once. Again they will have been tested before sent down the pipe I am not worried about this nor should you be!

Security? Sid has no dedicated security team! Testing DOES have a Debian security team! There is a security repository for testing in you sources.list I assure you. Testings security team is not as big as their Stable security team but that goes without saying because that is their officially supported system.

Rest easy my friends!
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Re: What are you going to do - Testing/Stable LMDE/LM 10?

Post by tdockery97 »

Thank you for the clarification blowtorch. It is like I thought then. Using LMDE with Testing repos is really no more risky than using Mint 9 Isadora. I will continue to use both Testing and Clonezilla regularly and I should have a happy, healthy LMDE system.
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blowtorch
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Re: What are you going to do - Testing/Stable LMDE/LM 10?

Post by blowtorch »

tdockery97 wrote:Thank you for the clarification blowtorch. It is like I thought then. Using LMDE with Testing repos is really no more risky than using Mint 9 Isadora. I will continue to use both Testing and Clonezilla regularly and I should have a happy, healthy LMDE system.
You'll more than likely be more happy with LMDE since it doesn't have the flubuntu layer :lol:
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Re: What are you going to do - Testing/Stable LMDE/LM 10?

Post by zerozero »

blowtorch wrote:
Security? Sid has no dedicated security team! Testing DOES have a Debian security team! There is a security repository for testing in you sources.list I assure you. Testings security team is not as big as their Stable security team but that goes without saying because that is their officially supported system.
And one we have to comment out when upgrading to sid, otherwise we'll have a error and a failure.
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Re: What are you going to do - Testing/Stable LMDE/LM 10?

Post by water spirit »

I have it installed as part of multi-boots on 2 computers and will leave it the way the developers intended and be part of the on going development of LMDE. I do not intend to use it as my main operating system until we see what happens over the next six months or so. It is an excellent distro already, in my opinion. (I have Mint 9 Gnome and kde installed as well.)
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Re: What are you going to do - Testing/Stable LMDE/LM 10?

Post by ej64 »

Well, I will give it some time, too. When Squeeze will have been released the first prove of stability has come.

At the moment I'm pretty satisfied with Mint 9 XFCE but I'm definitely hooked by the approach of a Debian based distro. Furthermore I'm somewhat in love with :oops: Crunchbang Openbox' (Statler ver. 10, Debian testing based, too) clarity and simplicity while providing an extremely fast and appealing GUI.

So I'm stuck with the decision where to head. But that's not all bad, having the time to see how the two VM installations (Crunchbang and Mint LMDE with XFCE) are looking like once they arrive some rough waters ...
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Re: What are you going to do - Testing/Stable LMDE/LM 10?

Post by deleted »

Just installed aptosid (xfce) + most of the mint (xfce) desktop in a vm with no problems.
The only thing keeping me from installing it for real is a few theming hiccups (like win95 looking buttons) and a few ubuntu repository tendrils from mint.
The xfce version of aptosid is quite fast (and also works with smxi, but don't tell the aptosid folks).

-Hinto
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Re: What are you going to do - Testing/Stable LMDE/LM 10?

Post by azathoth »

I changed mine to Sid to have a true rolling release as well as some of the other reasons mentioned here. I boot at least three - all rolling - on my box, with my main distro being Arch and I also use PCLOS for my KDE moods(best KDE implementation out there IMO.) So even if Sid breaks something, it's no big deal. Arch and PCLOS are uber stable.
Also, from my experience, LMDE Sid/Liquorix has never really broken. It's proven itself WAY more reliable and stable than *buntu ever was. (faster too!) :twisted:
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Re: What are you going to do - Testing/Stable LMDE/LM 10?

Post by deleted »

I would use LMDE if there was a 64 bit version. The closest I can get (without duplicating the LMDE work) is either aptosid KDE + Mint 9 KDE tools or aptosid Xfce + Mint 9 Xfce tools.
Both of which bring in some ubuntu packages.
-Hinto
Last edited by deleted on Tue Nov 02, 2010 9:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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