No updates?

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hopimet
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Re: No updates?

Post by hopimet »

gosa wrote: How can you start working on something you don't have at your disposal?

As far as I understand it Gnome 3.2 just entered Debian testing...
Yes, Gnome 3.2 has just entered Debian testing, but it was already available in Mint 12, and Cinnamon too. So, I think it was possible to start working on it.

As Arran suggested, dev's could have spent time to prepare the LMDE UP4s instead of integrating KDE in Mint 12 as the LTS Mint 13 will be published in 3 to 4 months. At least the security updates for LMDE XFCE could have been released.

Some informations or clarifications about the development policy of LMDE would be welcome.
Arran
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Re: No updates?

Post by Arran »

Well, this week I am going to test aptosid. If I am happy, then goodby Mint. I do think patience is a virtue, but complete and full information about the developments too. It is unbelievable to let thousands of users who look for a roling release wait for substantial information (not for excuses) for now over four month.
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zerozero
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Re: No updates?

Post by zerozero »

At least the security updates for LMDE XFCE could have been released.
i saw this idea several times already: "why we, xfce users have to wait because of the problems with the gnome ed.?" and it all boils down to misinformation:
- although lmde-xfce is a separate ed, it uses exactly the same sources.list as the gnome ed.
- so, please tell me, how could Clem release an update specific for the xfce users?
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Kassad
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Re: No updates?

Post by Kassad »

I, too, was a little confused about the issue. LMDE advertised as a "rolling" distro and after that somewhat held back by the update packs policy.

Well, if you are a "careful driver" then stick with the update packs.
But, if you are "adventurous" type then you might find helpful the following:

http://r3dux.org/2011/11/how-to-fix-lmde-repo-hell/

With this, I was able to get gnome-3.2 and install Cinnamon and had the rolling updates as well. If you have suicidal instincts then you can still vary your apt-sources further :)
asymmetros
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Re: No updates?

Post by asymmetros »

zerozero wrote:
At least the security updates for LMDE XFCE could have been released.
i saw this idea several times already: "why we, xfce users have to wait because of the problems with the gnome ed.?" and it all boils down to misinformation:
- although lmde-xfce is a separate ed, it uses exactly the same sources.list as the gnome ed.
- so, please tell me, how could Clem release an update specific for the xfce users?

Release an update pack with the following comments posted in the blog and shown in mintupdate:
this update pack is not recommended for gnome users cause of gnome 3.2, cinnamon, bla-bla-bla, you will end up with gnome 3.0, no mate, etc.. -so better skip it. But, Xfce users -go and grab it.

That will do it. :wink:
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hopimet
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Re: No updates?

Post by hopimet »

zerozero wrote: - although lmde-xfce is a separate ed, it uses exactly the same sources.list as the gnome ed.
- so, please tell me, how could Clem release an update specific for the xfce users?
OK, you're right. But, again, I think that there is a lack of 'official' informations about the security and future updates of LMDE. I really worry about that because I love this distribution and I feel this is no more a priority for Clem. I hope I'm wrong.
zerozero
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Re: No updates?

Post by zerozero »

asymmetros, in an ideal world, maybe :) unfortunately in our real world it wouldn't work, think just about the amount of users that have no idea about what DE they are using (yes it's true, we see it in the forum too frequently- and those are the ones that come here and ask, now imagine the ones that just installed it and run it without even been registered here)
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hopimet
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Re: No updates?

Post by hopimet »

Arran wrote:Well, this week I am going to test aptosid. If I am happy, then goodby Mint.
I've been testing Arch for one month now and it is an excellent distribution.
asymmetros
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Re: No updates?

Post by asymmetros »

And there is also aptosid's fork: http://siduction.org/ :roll:

The first stable release came Dec. the 30th


@ zerozero - you 're right, it would be an "interesting complication" :mrgreen: especially for users running gnome side by side with xfce.

So, the only, even more complicated solution (!), is the introduction of a third mint repo, for anxious lmde' ers, with frequent updates, deactivated by default. Of course, it won 't happen.

(I think it is obvious that i dislike gnome and xfce is my no1 choice) :lol:


ps: btw any idea why Clem abandoned the idea of producing an LMDE-based KDE edition? If the reason is gnome 3.2, is a there a choice for a LMDE KDE in the foreseen future?
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gavinhc
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Re: No updates?

Post by gavinhc »

asymmetros wrote:So, the only, even more complicated solution (!), is the introduction of a third mint repo, for anxious lmde' ers, with frequent updates, deactivated by default. Of course, it won 't happen.
Wouldn't that be the Debain Testing repo? Which users are free to use in LMDE and Clem even endorsed as an alternative to waiting for the next update pack.
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marcus0263
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Re: No updates?

Post by marcus0263 »

I like the update packs and stick with them, it brings a bit more stability to Debian Testing.

IMO the future of Mint is with Debian, Ubuntu has been going downhill for a long time and is only getting worse.
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KBD47
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Re: No updates?

Post by KBD47 »

asymmetros wrote: ps: btw any idea why Clem abandoned the idea of producing an LMDE-based KDE edition? If the reason is gnome 3.2, is a there a choice for a LMDE KDE in the foreseen future?
I would liked to have seen it. My guess is the partnership with the Netrunner folks who also build on Ubuntu is one of the reasons why--seems like a smart move.
It is not that hard to take either the LMDE or LMDX release and install KDE onto it. I did it today just to see if I could manage it, and if I can do it anyone can.
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ketoth
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Re: No updates?

Post by ketoth »

marcus0263 wrote:IMO the future of Mint is with Debian, Ubuntu has been going downhill for a long time and is only getting worse.
+1.
Bringing the well-known Mint frontend everytime while Ubuntu's goal is tablet PCs, the devs will have hard times hacking through Ubuntu to build a working Mint. Modules have to be deactivated, functions, applets and so on, the list keeps getting longer. After a certain point it's nothing less than building toasters with dishwasher parts, that won't make sense.
Mint clearly would be simpler to build from Debian. But for that, hardware support, installation assistant and some other stuff needs to be simplified, improved. Dunno if it's more Mint's or Debian's job (or both).

Anyway we got good news, UP4 is on it's way :) 'gonna setup a VirtualBox to incoming to see if I can help testing. 'guess I'll restart from the ISO, my customizations probably won't live peacefully with UP4 on this PC.
claudecat
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Re: No updates?

Post by claudecat »

I'm not looking forward to UP4... perfectly happy with gnome 2. While I agree that LMDE is in many ways better than the 'buntu-based Mint, there are some disadvantages. Ever notice how much more polished and professional looking the fonts are in Mint/Ubuntu? And little things like the shut down/restart/logout dialog look much better too.
asymmetros
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Re: No updates?

Post by asymmetros »

I don't need a logout menu. "Alt+Shift+F10" = "Shutdown" for my laptop.
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Monsta
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Re: No updates?

Post by Monsta »

Hmm, I wonder how many more complaints about the lack of updates will appear in a few months after the current debian testing will be frozen :)
ej64
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Re: No updates?

Post by ej64 »

^ @Monsta: I was already wondering if nobody is aware of the freeze ... quoting myself :mrgreen: (from previous page):
ej64 wrote:But one thing must be clear to you: it can't be rolling gently for testing itself. Testing will get a freeze in June in preparation of Debian Wheezy. Then the next updates apart from minor bugfixes will come in after Wheezy's release (perhaps Jan 2013). So, a gently rolling release is basically impossible with testing.
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KBD47
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Re: No updates?

Post by KBD47 »

I must admit the updates concern me. Twice now I have borked Debian installs by setting the repositories to Testing. My Debian Mint install was made unusable by running Testing updates set to the Testing repository, and I tried a dist update/upgrade on SalineOS Debian by pointing to Testing. I don't know if the third time will be a charm or the end of my experiment with Debian Testing :(
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Re: No updates?

Post by LifeInTheGrey »

KBD47 wrote:I must admit the updates concern me. Twice now I have borked Debian installs by setting the repositories to Testing. My Debian Mint install was made unusable by running Testing updates set to the Testing repository, and I tried a dist update/upgrade on SalineOS Debian by pointing to Testing. I don't know if the third time will be a charm or the end of my experiment with Debian Testing :(
KBD47
If you really wanna try something adventurous (until UP4, that is), I personally have just installed straight Debian Testing from scratch running XFCE 4.8 with all the multimedia files one expects (I've already given a tutorial to one gentleman who was interested, so I could give a step-by-step guide). It doesn't have some of the Minty finishing touches (like it doesn't have proprietary programs like Firefox, only Iceweasel, and the standard flashplugin-nonfree, stuff like that), but it is ridiculously lightweight, super stable and is a great way to fill the gap between update packs. At the very least, you would learn a TON about how the Debian system works, I know I did.
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rhodry
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Re: No updates?

Post by rhodry »

KBD47 wrote:I must admit the updates concern me. Twice now I have borked Debian installs by setting the repositories to Testing. My Debian Mint install was made unusable by running Testing updates set to the Testing repository, and I tried a dist update/upgrade on SalineOS Debian by pointing to Testing. I don't know if the third time will be a charm or the end of my experiment with Debian Testing :(
KBD47
What updates??? :)

Seriously, if you want to run a true Debian based rolling release, you need to move your repos to Sid. I prefer to call it that because "Unstable" is a misnoemer. Testing is only a rolling release for a window in time, until the next Stable freeze occurs, and after the freeze it is a flood for a while. That's way more "unstable" than Sid. The Update Packs just make sure it is never rolling.

The only real requirement when using Sid is that you stay well informed before you ever type in "apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade! I have NEVER had a Sid system break unless during a dist-upgrade; and even then recovery is usually quite possible. You must join the Debian Forums; even though the thread in here is very informative, Debian Weather is a good idea and install 'apt-listbugs'. If there is any doubt about an upgrade breaking something - just hold off until you are satisfied all is ok. You are in control of when updates/upgrades occurr. Learn how to 'pin' packages to hold the odd package back.

My only use for LMDE at the moment is that it makes a nice initial installer for Sid systems. The initial upgrade doesn't take long because I keep an AptOnCD handy. Borking the move to "Testing" is usually caused by leaving the Mint sources open or at least not 'pinning' everything appropriately. Have a go at moving to Sid, I think you will enjoy it. There's plenty of help around.

cheers,
rhodry.
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