LMDE a sleeping distro?

Archived topics about LMDE 1 and LMDE 2
MintFuriousUser
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Re: LMDE a sleeping distro?

Post by MintFuriousUser »

yaye wrote:
MintFuriousUser wrote:All LMDE users (both Gnome and Xfce) are very dissapointed by the lack of updates.
Speak for yourself and not all the rest of the LMDE users.
Sorry I edited it. After reading all this...is that all you have to say?
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proxima_centauri
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Re: LMDE a sleeping distro?

Post by proxima_centauri »

MintFuriousUser wrote:Ok this does not answer the big question which is "when are we going to get updates?". I am not a hacker or a cracker but I know that outdated software has security issues. We have a heavily outdated system by now. Do you believe it is as safe as fedora 16 for example?
As I said, when time can be put into it, the update packs will be released when ready.

It is not the case that software has security issues simply because an update is available for it.
In fact, it's more than likely not for a security issue.
If there is a major security concern that needs to be addressed by an update, please let us know and I'm sure it can be pushed through somehow.
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Re: LMDE a sleeping distro?

Post by ElderDryas »

proxima_centauri wrote:LMDE is a work in progress. Clem needs to prioritize his time around the release of Linux Mint 12..
And this is, imo, the proximate cause of most of the (non-technical) problems. The LM Team is just too small for all that they have on their plate (LM, LMDE...Gnome2, Gnome3, XFCE, KDE, LXDE, flux....).

What ever happen to the UNIX concept of doing one thing and doing it well (that's why pipes were invented)?
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Re: LMDE a sleeping distro?

Post by Davarish »

Hello people!
I see some frustration here...I picked some useful info though. I am talking about the Viking's suggestion. Ok Viking I really want to do this BUT FIRST some questions:
1.) How safe is the safe upgrade? Is there a chance that I will have conflictions or other problems when the Update Pack 4 will come?
2.) Exactly how can I do this? Edit something? Where exactly? Please give us some detailed info about that.
3.) If this works as I understood it works why didn't Clem and the others didn't think about that? Is it because there are some hidden risks behind it?
4.) Did you ever do it?

Thanks!
yaye
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Re: LMDE a sleeping distro?

Post by yaye »

MintFuriousUser wrote:Sorry I edited it. After reading all this...is that all you have to say?
I really don't see the need to repeat what others have already said. If you are unhappy about the pace of updates, switch your sources.list to the testing repo, but be prepared for breakages.
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Re: LMDE a sleeping distro?

Post by grizzler »

viking777 wrote:I think rhodry has a valid point and one that concerns me, the next update for incoming is probably going to be so large that it will be the size of a distro, and already this makes it nearly impossible for limited bandwidth users to use.
That's why I'm now downloading things at Testing's frequency without actually using Testing on my machine. As the packages appear in Testing they are retrieved and stored in a repository cache on my computer. Once the next update pack is released, the corresponding Packages list will be rewritten so everything the pack needs will be found locally.

I actually came up with this not for myself - luckily I don't really have a bandwidth problem - but for a cousin of mine whose computer needed six hours to download update pack 3. The prospects for pack 4 weren't all that bad when I started this, but now I'm starting to wonder whether a reinstall using a possible respin wouldn't be easier... :?
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viking777
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Re: LMDE a sleeping distro?

Post by viking777 »

Davarish wrote:Hello people!
I see some frustration here...I picked some useful info though. I am talking about the Viking's suggestion. Ok Viking I really want to do this BUT FIRST some questions:
1.) How safe is the safe upgrade? Is there a chance that I will have conflictions or other problems when the Update Pack 4 will come?
2.) Exactly how can I do this? Edit something? Where exactly? Please give us some detailed info about that.
3.) If this works as I understood it works why didn't Clem and the others didn't think about that? Is it because there are some hidden risks behind it?
4.) Did you ever do it?

Thanks!
4) No I have never done it - I run LMDE testing and get my updates on a regular basis so I don't need to. Like most others I want a stable distro to fall back on so I multi boot with Crunchbang and Pclinux or Debian Stable sometimes and I also regularly back up LMDE with Clonezilla, and this is the crux of the matter - you CANNOT have you cake and eat it at the same time. There is a fundamental conflict between recency and stability there always has been and there always will be. Some people seem not to understand this or to conveniently forget it.
2) + 1) You can't do this yourself it would have to be implemented by the Mint team. Changing to a 'safe upgrade' mode is easy enough but the update packs would have to be tailored to only include updates that haven't been included with a 'safe upgrade' - only Mint could do that and it would probably require a separate update server.
3) Why hasn't it been done? Probably because there is some problem that they see and I don't, and they know a lot more than me.

Finally the security argument has to be taken in context. If you use Linux you are fundamentally more secure than a Windows user. Yes, updated software is a security enhancement, but of far less import than, for example what you do with your computer. If you run a server - of any kind - your machine will be at much greater risk than if you don't, and no amount of updated software is going to change that. If you are a high profile target (like kernel.org) you will have a much greater need for security than if you were a normal desktop user. So get the security issue in perspective, how you use your computer is much more important than how up to date you software is.

But I am not denying there is a problem and lack of satisfaction here, and Clem would be foolish to ignore it also, and I am sure he wont. The wonderful advantage of Linux is that if you have a problem with the way a distro or desktop environment is going then usually you can move elsewhere. In any case you should never rely on a single distro anyway. Clem might get run over by a bus tomorrow and then what happens to Mint? I hope it doesn't happen, but it could.
Fujitsu Lifebook AH532. Intel i5 processor, 6Gb ram, Intel HD3000 graphics, Intel Audio/wifi. Realtek RTL8111/8168B Ethernet.Lubuntu 13.10,Ubuntu12.10 (Unity), Mint16 (Cinnamon), Manjaro (Xfce).
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viking777
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Re: LMDE a sleeping distro?

Post by viking777 »

grizzler wrote:
viking777 wrote:I think rhodry has a valid point and one that concerns me, the next update for incoming is probably going to be so large that it will be the size of a distro, and already this makes it nearly impossible for limited bandwidth users to use.
That's why I'm now downloading things at Testing's frequency without actually using Testing on my machine. As the packages appear in Testing they are retrieved and stored in a repository cache on my computer. Once the next update pack is released, the corresponding Packages list will be rewritten so everything the pack needs will be found locally.

I actually came up with this not for myself - luckily I don't really have a bandwidth problem - but for a cousin of mine whose computer needed six hours to download update pack 3. The prospects for pack 4 weren't all that bad when I started this, but now I'm starting to wonder whether a reinstall using a possible respin wouldn't be easier... :?
That is a very neat idea grizzler - Kudos!
Fujitsu Lifebook AH532. Intel i5 processor, 6Gb ram, Intel HD3000 graphics, Intel Audio/wifi. Realtek RTL8111/8168B Ethernet.Lubuntu 13.10,Ubuntu12.10 (Unity), Mint16 (Cinnamon), Manjaro (Xfce).
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5oak
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Re: LMDE a sleeping distro?

Post by 5oak »

viking777 wrote:
grizzler wrote:
viking777 wrote:I think rhodry has a valid point and one that concerns me, the next update for incoming is probably going to be so large that it will be the size of a distro, and already this makes it nearly impossible for limited bandwidth users to use.
That's why I'm now downloading things at Testing's frequency without actually using Testing on my machine. As the packages appear in Testing they are retrieved and stored in a repository cache on my computer. Once the next update pack is released, the corresponding Packages list will be rewritten so everything the pack needs will be found locally.

I actually came up with this not for myself - luckily I don't really have a bandwidth problem - but for a cousin of mine whose computer needed six hours to download update pack 3. The prospects for pack 4 weren't all that bad when I started this, but now I'm starting to wonder whether a reinstall using a possible respin wouldn't be easier... :?
That is a very neat idea grizzler - Kudos!
And how does one go about this, exactly? :?
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viking777
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Re: LMDE a sleeping distro?

Post by viking777 »

After my reply of two posts back, I decided it was about time I had the courage of my own convictions, so this morning this is what I did.

1) I booted into LMDE 'incoming' and changed mintupdate to the 'no replace' option (what I called earlier 'safe upgrade'). This is done in Edit>Preferences>Update Method - just remove the tick in the only box on the tab.

2) I changed /etc/sources.list from 'incoming' to 'testing'.

3) I refreshed mintupdate. This resulted in a list of 604 updates (475Mb)

4) I installed the updates, shut the computer down and started up again, everything normal.

5) Out of interest I enabled dist-upgrade again in mintupdate and refreshed again, this resulted in a list of a further 206 packages (271Mb) being shown for upgrade.

Now I can't claim on the basis of one test that this solves the problem for those that want updates more frequently than 'incoming' but without the breakages, but it doesn't do the argument any harm. Rethinking my stance on the "Can you do this alone" question, I believe the answer is probably yes, but it may not be worth it. Basically the problem is in the 'sources.list' file. As it stands at the moment you would have to use testing sources and safe upgrade until you knew that an update pack had been released for your version of LMDE at which point you would have to switch the sources back to incoming or latest to get the extras that you haven't got because of the 'safe-upgrade' method. You would also at that time have to switch mintupdate back to 'dist-upgrade' mode to install the update pack. This is probably too much bother for anyone especially when you are not sure it will always work. It could be automated by the Mint team of course but I doubt that they are going to take the idea that seriously and there may even be better ways to do this that I haven't thought of.

My only problem now is what do I do with this 'composite' LMDE that I have created which is neither 'testing' nor 'incoming' nor 'latest' Hmm :)
Fujitsu Lifebook AH532. Intel i5 processor, 6Gb ram, Intel HD3000 graphics, Intel Audio/wifi. Realtek RTL8111/8168B Ethernet.Lubuntu 13.10,Ubuntu12.10 (Unity), Mint16 (Cinnamon), Manjaro (Xfce).
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Re: LMDE a sleeping distro?

Post by 5oak »

Ha! This sounds like fun! So is 'the shell' installed on your hybrid system now?
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Re: LMDE a sleeping distro?

Post by viking777 »

5oak wrote:Ha! This sounds like fun! So is 'the shell' installed on your hybrid system now?
No I don't have shell. Here is the full list of updates if you are interested:
Upgrade: libmono-addins-gui0.2-cil:i386 (0.6.1-2, 0.6.2-1), python-crypto:i386 (2.3-2, 2.4-1), policykit-1-gnome:i386 (0.102-1, 0.102-2), libgs9-common:i386 (9.02~dfsg-3, 9.04~dfsg-2), libplist1:i386 (1.6-2, 1.7-1), dmsetup:i386 (1.02.63-3.1, 1.02.67-1), libgtk2.0-common:i386 (2.24.4-3, 2.24.7-1), libedit2:i386 (2.11-20080614-2.2, 2.11-20080614-3), libxfcegui4-4:i386 (4.8.1-4, 4.8.1-5), libkrb5-3:i386 (1.9.1+dfsg-1, 1.9.1+dfsg-3), desktop-base:i386 (6.0.6, 6.0.7), libatk1.0-0:i386 (2.0.1-2, 2.2.0-2), gnome-utils-common:i386 (2.30.0-2, 3.0.1-5), libpam0g:i386 (1.1.3-2, 1.1.3-6), syslinux:i386 (4.04+dfsg-3, 4.04+dfsg-7), libtalloc2:i386 (2.0.6-2, 2.0.7-3), libpam-modules-bin:i386 (1.1.3-2, 1.1.3-6), libcdio10:i386 (0.81-4, 0.81-4.1), libmodplug1:i386 (0.8.8.2-3, 0.8.8.4-1), libglib-perl:i386 (1.224-1, 1.240-1), wamerican:i386 (6-3, 7.1-1), bzip2:i386 (1.0.5-6, 1.0.5-7), libva-x11-1:i386 (1.0.12-2, 1.0.14-1), liborc-0.4-0:i386 (0.4.14-1, 0.4.16-1), libcanberra-gtk-module:i386 (0.28-1, 0.28-3), libc-bin:i386 (2.13-18, 2.13-21), rpm2cpio:i386 (4.9.1.1-1, 4.9.1.1-1+b1), libmtp9:i386 (1.1.0-4, 1.1.1-1), notification-daemon:i386 (0.7.1-5, 0.7.3-1), libkrb5support0:i386 (1.9.1+dfsg-1, 1.9.1+dfsg-3), libatasmart4:i386 (0.17+git20100219-3, 0.18-1), gcalctool:i386 (6.0.2-1, 6.2.0-1), gthumb:i386 (2.13.1-1, 2.13.1-2), libbluray-bdj:i386 (0.0~git20110717.3477b65-3, 0.2~git20111001.8e5d241-1), librpmbuild2:i386 (4.9.1.1-1, 4.9.1.1-1+b1), libgmp10:i386 (5.0.1+dfsg-7, 5.0.2+dfsg-2), traceroute:i386 (2.0.15-1, 2.0.18-1), libgail18:i386 (2.24.4-3, 2.24.7-1), telepathy-salut:i386 (0.5.0-3, 0.6.0-1), libavutil51:i386 (0.8.2-0.0, 0.8.6-0.1), libmpfr4:i386 (3.0.1-6, 3.1.0-3), libflite1:i386 (1.4-release-2, 1.4-release-3), fakeroot:i386 (1.17-1, 1.18.1-1), libgphoto2-port0:i386 (2.4.11-2, 2.4.11-3.1), libevent-1.4-2:i386 (1.4.13-stable-1, 1.4.14b-stable-1), debian-installer-launcher:i386 (7, 8), liblcms1:i386 (1.19.dfsg-1, 1.19.dfsg-1+b1), gnome-desktop-data:i386 (2.30.2-2, 2.30.2-3), libfile-listing-perl:i386 (6.01-1, 6.03-1), exim4-config:i386 (4.76-2, 4.77-1), libopenraw1:i386 (0.0.8-3, 0.0.8-3+b1), libgnome2-0:i386 (2.32.1-1, 2.32.1-2), firmware-linux-nonfree:i386 (0.33, 0.34), gamin:i386 (0.1.10-2+b2, 0.1.10-4), libatk1.0-dev:i386 (2.0.1-2, 2.2.0-2), baobab:i386 (2.30.0-2, 3.0.1-5), gir1.2-gtk-3.0:i386 (3.0.11-1, 3.0.12-2), libgtop2-common:i386 (2.28.3-2, 2.28.4-1), libtelepathy-glib0:i386 (0.15.5-1, 0.16.2-1), python-mako:i386 (0.4.2-1, 0.5.0-1), debhelper:i386 (8.9.6, 8.9.9), libsensors4:i386 (3.3.0-4, 3.3.1-1), xserver-xorg-video-all:i386 (7.6+8, 7.6+9), libcanberra-gtk3-0:i386 (0.28-1, 0.28-3), libpam-modules:i386 (1.1.3-2, 1.1.3-6), libbabl-0.0-0:i386 (0.0.22-1, 0.0.22-1.1), libcupscgi1:i386 (1.5.0-5, 1.5.0-8), libcaca0:i386 (0.99.beta17-2, 0.99.beta17-2.1), libacl1:i386 (2.2.51-3, 2.2.51-4), libcomerr2:i386 (1.42~WIP-2011-07-02-1, 1.42~WIP-2011-10-16-1), libsnmp15:i386 (5.4.3~dfsg-2.2, 5.4.3~dfsg-2.3), libdjvulibre21:i386 (3.5.24-8, 3.5.24-9), libselinux1:i386 (2.0.98-1.1, 2.1.0-4), smbclient:i386 (3.5.11~dfsg-1, 3.5.11~dfsg-4), gcc-4.5-base:i386 (4.5.3-5, 4.5.3-9), libxfce4util-bin:i386 (4.8.1-3, 4.8.2-1), libgnomeui-common:i386 (2.24.5-1, 2.24.5-2), iso-codes:i386 (3.27.1-1, 3.30-1), libcamel-1.2-23:i386 (3.0.2.1-1, 3.0.3-1), libosp5:i386 (1.5.2-9, 1.5.2-10), libnet-ssleay-perl:i386 (1.36-3, 1.42-1), libxcb-shm0-dev:i386 (1.7-3, 1.7-4), libgail-common:i386 (2.24.4-3, 2.24.7-1), libgnome-keyring0:i386 (3.0.0-2, 3.2.0-3), python-paramiko:i386 (1.7.7.1-1, 1.7.7.1-2), x11-utils:i386 (7.6+3, 7.6+4), gnome-session-canberra:i386 (0.28-1, 0.28-3), gdebi:i386 (0.8.0, 0.8.2), gir1.2-gdkpixbuf-2.0:i386 (2.23.5-3, 2.24.0-1), libbluray1:i386 (0.0~git20110717.3477b65-3, 0.2~git20111001.8e5d241-1), libgwenhywfar60:i386 (4.2.1-1, 4.3.0-1), libx11-data:i386 (1.4.4-1, 1.4.4-2), libppl9:i386 (0.11.2-4, 0.11.2-6), libots0:i386 (0.5.0-2, 0.5.0-2.1), ncurses-base:i386 (5.9-1, 5.9-4), python-gamin:i386 (0.1.10-2+b2, 0.1.10-4), firmware-iwlwifi:i386 (0.33, 0.34), clamav:i386 (0.97.2+dfsg-1, 0.97.3+dfsg-1), libxmmsclient6:i386 (0.7DrNo+dfsg-2+b2, 0.8+dfsg-1), libpango1.0-dev:i386 (1.28.4-3, 1.29.4-2), libbz2-1.0:i386 (1.0.5-6, 1.0.5-7), libdbus-1-3:i386 (1.4.14-1, 1.4.16-1), libaio1:i386 (0.3.109-1, 0.3.109-2), udisks:i386 (1.0.3-1, 1.0.4-2), g++-4.4:i386 (4.4.6-8, 4.4.6-11), g++-4.5:i386 (4.5.3-5, 4.5.3-9), exim4-daemon-light:i386 (4.76-2, 4.77-1), nvidia-vdpau-driver:i386 (280.13-1, 280.13.really.275.36-1), perl:i386 (5.12.4-4, 5.12.4-6), gthumb-data:i386 (2.13.1-1, 2.13.1-2), glib-networking:i386 (2.28.7-1, 2.28.7-2), libhyphen0:i386 (2.7.1-4, 2.8.3-1), kdebase-runtime:i386 (4.6.5-1, 4.6.5-1+b1), diffutils:i386 (3.0-1, 3.2-1), libmagickcore4-extra:i386 (6.6.9.7-5, 6.6.9.7-5+b1), libdbus-glib-1-2:i386 (0.94-4, 0.98-1), live-config-doc:i386 (3.0~a26-1, 3.0~a30-1), firmware-bnx2x:i386 (0.33, 0.34), libburn4:i386 (1.1.4-1, 1.1.6-1), libgstfarsight0.10-0:i386 (0.0.29-1, 0.0.31-1), libproxy0:i386 (0.3.1-3, 0.3.1-4), libpam-runtime:i386 (1.1.3-2, 1.1.3-6), libjack0:i386 (0.121.0+svn4469-2, 0.121.0+svn4538-3), libmailutils2:i386 (2.2+dfsg1-3+b1, 2.2+dfsg1-4), gnome-screenshot:i386 (2.30.0-2, 3.0.1-5), alacarte:i386 (0.13.2-1, 0.13.2-3), libwpg-0.2-2:i386 (0.2.0-4, 0.2.1-1), python-libxml2:i386 (2.7.8.dfsg-4, 2.7.8.dfsg-5), libdecoration0:i386 (0.8.4-4, 0.8.4-5), quilt:i386 (0.48-7, 0.48-8), libxcb-xv0:i386 (1.7-3, 1.7-4), gtk2-engines-pixbuf:i386 (2.24.4-3, 2.24.7-1), gtk2-engines-aurora:i386 (1.5.1-1, 1.5.1-2), libtdb1:i386 (1.2.9-3, 1.2.9-4+b1), phonon:i386 (4.6.0really4.5.0-4, 4.6.0really4.5.0-5), grub2-common:i386 (1.99-11, 1.99-12), abiword-common:i386 (2.8.6-0.3, 2.8.6-0.4), libpwl5:i386 (0.11.2-4, 0.11.2-6), libccid:i386 (1.4.4-1, 1.4.5-1), libglu1-mesa:i386 (7.10.3-4, 7.11-6), cups-client:i386 (1.5.0-5, 1.5.0-8), libaqofxconnect7:i386 (5.0.14-2, 5.0.16-1), libcupsmime1:i386 (1.5.0-5, 1.5.0-8), libc-dev-bin:i386 (2.13-18, 2.13-21), abiword:i386 (2.8.6-0.3, 2.8.6-0.4), abiword-plugin-mathview:i386 (2.8.6-0.3, 2.8.6-0.4), xserver-common:i386 (1.10.4-1, 1.11.1.902-1), glx-alternative-mesa:i386 (0.1.91, 0.2.0), python-gtkglext1:i386 (1.1.0-7, 1.1.0-9), lockfile-progs:i386 (0.1.15.1, 0.1.16), libpcap0.8:i386 (1.1.1-8, 1.1.1-10), libcdt4:i386 (2.26.3-7, 2.26.3-8), libdca0:i386 (0.0.5-4, 0.0.5-5), libauthen-ntlm-perl:i386 (1.08-1, 1.09-1), libhtml-parser-perl:i386 (3.68-1+b1, 3.69-1), libboost-program-options1.46.1:i386 (1.46.1-7, 1.46.1-7+b1), libdrm-intel1:i386 (2.4.26-1, 2.4.27-1), libjs-jquery:i386 (1.6.2-1, 1.6.4-1), libregexp-assemble-perl:i386 (0.34-6, 0.35-2), java-common:i386 (0.40, 0.43), dosfstools:i386 (3.0.9-1, 3.0.12-1), ed:i386 (1.4-3, 1.5-3), libwnck-common:i386 (2.30.4-3, 2.30.7-1), libupower-glib1:i386 (0.9.12-1, 0.9.14-1), libpostproc51:i386 (0.8.2-0.0, 0.8.6-0.1), librpm2:i386 (4.9.1.1-1, 4.9.1.1-1+b1), rpm-common:i386 (4.9.1.1-1, 4.9.1.1-1+b1), perl-base:i386 (5.12.4-4, 5.12.4-6), libaccess-bridge-java-jni:i386 (1.26.2-5, 1.26.2-8), 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libaudio2:i386 (1.9.2-9, 1.9.3-1), libxcb-shm0:i386 (1.7-3, 1.7-4), python-parted:i386 (3.6-3, 3.6-4), libvlccore4:i386 (1.1.11-2+b2, 1.1.12-0.1), binutils:i386 (2.21.52.20110606-2, 2.21.90.20111025-1), libdjvulibre-text:i386 (3.5.24-8, 3.5.24-9), libvcdinfo0:i386 (0.7.23-4+b2, 0.7.23-4.1), libgdk-pixbuf2.0-dev:i386 (2.23.5-3, 2.24.0-1), libebml3:i386 (1.2.1-1, 1.2.2-1), initscripts:i386 (2.88dsf-13.11, 2.88dsf-13.12), libgtkglext1:i386 (1.2.0-1.2, 1.2.0-2), libgl1-nvidia-alternatives:i386 (280.13-1, 280.13.really.275.36-1), firmware-ipw2x00:i386 (0.33, 0.34), libexo-common:i386 (0.6.2-1, 0.6.2-3), fluxbox:i386 (1.3.1~dfsg1-2, 1.3.2-2), firmware-atheros:i386 (0.33, 0.34), libpathplan4:i386 (2.26.3-7, 2.26.3-8), libnet1:i386 (1.1.4-2, 1.1.4-2.1), librsvg2-common:i386 (2.34.0-1, 2.34.1-3), ntfs-3g:i386 (2011.4.12AR.6-1, 2011.4.12AR.7-1), firmware-linux:i386 (0.33, 0.34), gnupg2:i386 (2.0.17-2, 2.0.18-2), dmidecode:i386 (2.9-1.2, 2.11-4), nvidia-glx:i386 (280.13-1, 280.13.really.275.36-1), libwpd-0.9-9:i386 (0.9.2-1, 0.9.3-2), pcscd:i386 (1.7.4-1, 1.7.4-2), libmng1:i386 (1.0.10-2, 1.0.10-3), virtuoso-opensource-6.1-bin:i386 (6.1.3+dfsg1-1, 6.1.3+dfsg1-2), libgtk2.0-0:i386 (2.24.4-3, 2.24.7-1), python-httplib2:i386 (0.7.1-1, 0.7.1-2), gnome-system-log:i386 (2.30.0-2, 3.0.1-5), libgsf-1-114:i386 (1.14.21-1, 1.14.21-2), libofa0:i386 (0.9.3-3.1, 0.9.3-4), libmpc2:i386 (0.9-3, 0.9-4), libiptcdata0:i386 (1.0.4-1+b2, 1.0.4-2), libltdl7:i386 (2.4-4, 2.4.2-1), libvisual-0.4-plugins:i386 (0.4.0.dfsg.1-2, 0.4.0.dfsg.1-3), sysvinit:i386 (2.88dsf-13.11, 2.88dsf-13.12), libmagic1:i386 (5.04-5+b1, 5.09-2), libssl1.0.0:i386 (1.0.0d-3, 1.0.0e-2), unhide:i386 (20110113-2, 20110113-3), libpoppler-glib6:i386 (0.16.7-2, 0.16.7-2+b1), python-gobject:i386 (2.28.6-4, 2.28.6-5), libsdl-image1.2:i386 (1.2.10-2.1, 1.2.10-2.1+b1), python-gobject-cairo:i386 (2.28.6-4, 2.28.6-5), ghostscript-cups:i386 (9.02~dfsg-3, 9.04~dfsg-2), mawk:i386 (1.3.3-15, 1.3.3-16), busybox:i386 (1.18.5-1, 1.19.3-1), rkhunter:i386 (1.3.8-7, 1.3.8-10)
End-Date: 2011-11-21 11:18:35
Fujitsu Lifebook AH532. Intel i5 processor, 6Gb ram, Intel HD3000 graphics, Intel Audio/wifi. Realtek RTL8111/8168B Ethernet.Lubuntu 13.10,Ubuntu12.10 (Unity), Mint16 (Cinnamon), Manjaro (Xfce).
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monkeyboy
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Re: LMDE a sleeping distro?

Post by monkeyboy »

MintFuriousUser wrote:Most LMDE users (both Gnome and Xfce) are very dissapointed by the lack of updates. Viking I believe you missed the point. We are not asking for 20 updates per day. We are just asking for an Update pack every month. We are not getting that. If we wanted 20 updates per day we would be using something else like arch or sabayon or gentoo or even fedora. We are using Mint cause we want stability and functionality but the system is so outdated that we are in huge security risk right now. Many people don't want to risk activating the sid repos cause this would surely cause stability problems. This is just not the way for users that are not experts. I believe most of the Mint users are not experts. I said most ok? The most annoying thing of all right now is the lack of official answers. Please someone from the Mint development team come and give us some answers. We are all very very dissapointed. Many people say "bye bye" and many people are thinking of choosing another distro day by day. I am just waiting for official answers for now so please don't ignore us
X amount of work and Y amount of labor equals reality. Being disappointed or willing to go elsewhere doesn't change that equation. My suggestion is execute a solution that actually address the problem or adapt to the current reality. Enjoy
If you don't like it, make something better
If you can't make something better, adapt
If you can't do either ball your panties up and cry.

Complaining is like masticating most anyone can do it.
However doing it in public is really hardcore.
JeffShepherd
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Re: LMDE a sleeping distro?

Post by JeffShepherd »

MintFuriousUser wrote:Most LMDE users (both Gnome and Xfce) are very dissapointed by the lack of updates. Viking I believe you missed the point. We are not asking for 20 updates per day. We are just asking for an Update pack every month. We are not getting that. If we wanted 20 updates per day we would be using something else like arch or sabayon or gentoo or even fedora. We are using Mint cause we want stability and functionality but the system is so outdated that we are in huge security risk right now. Many people don't want to risk activating the sid repos cause this would surely cause stability problems. This is just not the way for users that are not experts. I believe most of the Mint users are not experts. I said most ok? The most annoying thing of all right now is the lack of official answers. Please someone from the Mint development team come and give us some answers. We are all very very dissapointed. Many people say "bye bye" and many people are thinking of choosing another distro day by day. I am just waiting for official answers for now so please don't ignore us
I'm sorry but speak for yourself. Updates can only be released when they are ready. Would you rather have stable updates or breakages because updates have been rushed to fit a time frame?
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5oak
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Re: LMDE a sleeping distro?

Post by 5oak »

JeffShepherd wrote:I'm sorry but speak for yourself. Updates can only be released when they are ready. Would you rather have stable updates or breakages because updates have been rushed to fit a time frame?
I completely agree. Just be patient and if you can't, switch to testing. Either way, stop complaining...
grizzler
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Re: LMDE a sleeping distro?

Post by grizzler »

5oak wrote:
viking777 wrote:
grizzler wrote:That's why I'm now downloading things at Testing's frequency without actually using Testing on my machine. As the packages appear in Testing they are retrieved and stored in a repository cache on my computer. Once the next update pack is released, the corresponding Packages list will be rewritten so everything the pack needs will be found locally.

I actually came up with this not for myself - luckily I don't really have a bandwidth problem - but for a cousin of mine whose computer needed six hours to download update pack 3. The prospects for pack 4 weren't all that bad when I started this, but now I'm starting to wonder whether a reinstall using a possible respin wouldn't be easier... :?
That is a very neat idea grizzler - Kudos!
And how does one go about this, exactly? :?
Without going into too much detail: you start by (temporarily) changing your sources.list to point to Testing and running (sudo) apt-get update to refresh apt's lists and then apt-get -s -V dist-upgrade to get a detailed listing of upgraded packages for your system without actually upgrading. You compare that list to what's already in the cache and pick up what isn't using wget. That's the daily routine.

When the next update pack is available, you check which files in the cache are listed in the Packages list for Incoming/Latest and build a separate Packages list pointing to the cache. Then you make sure the cache is listed in your sources.list before any other entries (so it gets priority) and run the update.

Of course I don't do any of that manually. It's all done with a shell script. It will need some work to be usable by others, but if you're interested...
Miloose
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Re: LMDE a sleeping distro?

Post by Miloose »

proxima_centauri wrote: It is not the case that software has security issues simply because an update is available for it.
In fact, it's more than likely not for a security issue.
If there is a major security concern that needs to be addressed by an update, please let us know and I'm sure it can be pushed through somehow.
First of all, I'd like to say that I'm currently happy with my LMDE. I'm new to this forum as I use LMDE for 2 months now, and I'm not used to post a lot on the forums. I used to be a Ubuntu and Linux Mint user but I was looking for something else, I have tried other rolling releases (Arch, crunchbang, frugalware, foresight), and LMDE suits me the best (to be honest, my preference went for crunchbang, but I don't think that my wife will find openbox as handy as I see it).
I don't care to wait one or two months to get the latest version 6.5 of the software if I'm happy with the 5.8, but I also do not want that someone changes my desktop appearance every 6 months together with the upgrade process. On the other hand, I'm concerned about security issues, but I'm also not a specialist in that particular domain.

So, I will give a simple example and I'm wondering what are the real risks for a basic use of internet. The version of chromium-browser in LMDE is version 13 (I don't remember the numbers after the . and I'm not at home to check, but whatever). Since that version, there are some high-risk security issues that has been corrected (here, here and here). The first one is from 6 October, the last one is new and even not yet corrected in Sid, but should be soon I guess. And I suppose there are other flaws in between.

My question is "is there any danger for me to use an outdated version of chromium or there is nothing to worry about ?" If the security flaws are for very specific uses, then OK, I don't care, but if there is a risk (even minimal) that I have security problems because I give my credit card number to trusted sites using chromium or that someone can access to my private information on my computer, then I have a problem. And if it's safe, why is it considered as "high-risk" ?

If someone knows the answer, I would be glad to know. Thanks a lot, and don't get me wrong, I'm not here to say I'm unhappy with LMDE, I'd like to understand.
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5oak
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Re: LMDE a sleeping distro?

Post by 5oak »

grizzler wrote:My question is "is there any danger for me to use an outdated version of chromium or there is nothing to worry about ?" If the security flaws are for very specific uses, then OK, I don't care, but if there is a risk (even minimal) that I have security problems because I give my credit card number to trusted sites using chromium or that someone can access to my private information on my computer, then I have a problem. And if it's safe, why is it considered as "high-risk" ?
I'm no expert, but I would take these warnings with a VERY large grain of salt.
grizzler
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Re: LMDE a sleeping distro?

Post by grizzler »

5oak wrote:
grizzler wrote:...
No I didn't. :?:

Please correct the quoting. I'm more than a little annoyed that my name/handle/whatever would be linked to such a question!
Last edited by grizzler on Mon Nov 21, 2011 11:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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viking777
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Re: LMDE a sleeping distro?

Post by viking777 »

Also no security expert, but I would tend to agree with 5oak.

I would add that if it really concerns you then you are perfectly free to go to http://www.debian.org/distrib/packages search for 'chromium' (or any other package that concerns you) with 'any' distribution selected instead of the default, and you will find packages for both versions 14 and 15 are freely available. Now I am not saying that these are definitely going to work on your system, although with a browser package they probably will.

One other thing you might like to look at whilst you are on that site and that is the default version in use on Debian Stable - version 6.0. Now Debian Stable is chosen by people with what are usually termed 'mission critical' systems, where stability is vital but usually so is security, yet, unless they are making alternative arrangements for updates (ie. doing it themselves as I suggested), that is the version of Chromium they are using. I was using Debian Stable right up until the time Lenny was replaced by Squeeze and I can vouch for the degree to which it was out of date - a bit like a Win7 user going back to Win 98! It never caused me any security problems though.
Fujitsu Lifebook AH532. Intel i5 processor, 6Gb ram, Intel HD3000 graphics, Intel Audio/wifi. Realtek RTL8111/8168B Ethernet.Lubuntu 13.10,Ubuntu12.10 (Unity), Mint16 (Cinnamon), Manjaro (Xfce).
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