Understanding upstream bugs

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LMDE 2 support ends on 1-1-2019
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mediclaser
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Understanding upstream bugs

Post by mediclaser » Sun Jul 01, 2018 5:53 pm

I can't remember exactly the type of bug and the distro that's involved, but one thing I clearly remember was somebody said the bug cannot be fixed because it's inherited from the upstream distro. Is this mostly the case for distros which are based on another distros?

Like, for example -- if there is a bug in Debian, Ubuntu automatically inherits it, and so does Linux Mint. If there is a new bug introduced in Ubuntu (not present in Debian), Linux Mint inherits that as well?

Code: Select all

Debian ----> Ubuntu ----> Linux Mint
        |
        |
        ---> LMDE
I just need to understand when comparing stability between distros like Mint vs LMDE.
Does keeping LMDE based directly on Debian make it more stable than basing it on another Debian-based distro?
Having a Linux operating system is just like driving a car -- you learn something new everyday.

gm10
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Re: Understanding upstream bugs

Post by gm10 » Sun Jul 01, 2018 6:01 pm

mediclaser wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 5:53 pm
Like, for example -- if there is a bug in Debian, Ubuntu automatically inherits it, and so does Linux Mint. If there is a new bug introduced in Ubuntu (not present in Debian), Linux Mint inherits that as well?
Potentially. However, the downstream distros are not 100% copies of the upstream source or there would be no point to them. They can choose to fix a bug before the upstream source does it, or they may not experience the bug at all because of their differences. So there really is no absolute answer to this.
mediclaser wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 5:53 pm
I just need to understand when comparing stability between distros like Mint vs LMDE.
Does keeping LMDE based directly on Debian make it more stable than basing it on another Debian-based distro?
The opposite is true. If you are looking for stable, then LMDE is definitely the wrong choice.

mediclaser
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Re: Understanding upstream bugs

Post by mediclaser » Sun Jul 01, 2018 9:55 pm

gm10 wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 6:01 pm
mediclaser wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 5:53 pm
Like, for example -- if there is a bug in Debian, Ubuntu automatically inherits it, and so does Linux Mint. If there is a new bug introduced in Ubuntu (not present in Debian), Linux Mint inherits that as well?
Potentially. However, the downstream distros are not 100% copies of the upstream source or there would be no point to them. They can choose to fix a bug before the upstream source does it, or they may not experience the bug at all because of their differences. So there really is no absolute answer to this.
gm10 wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 6:01 pm
[quote=mediclaser wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 5:53 pm
I just need to understand when comparing stability between distros like Mint vs LMDE.
Does keeping LMDE based directly on Debian make it more stable than basing it on another Debian-based distro?
The opposite is true. If you are looking for stable, then LMDE is definitely the wrong choice.
Thanks for making that clear. I was in the impression LMDE should be more stable than Mint.
Having a Linux operating system is just like driving a car -- you learn something new everyday.

mediclaser
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Re: Understanding upstream bugs

Post by mediclaser » Tue Jul 03, 2018 1:19 pm

Instrestingly, an example of my concern has been brought out in another thread recently:
catweazel wrote:
Tue Jul 03, 2018 5:39 am
TopEnder wrote:
Tue Jul 03, 2018 5:19 am
Well Clem, I am not one that is completely happy with Linux Mint 19 release. Blindly the Developers have installed what was thrown at Linux Mint with out checking if all library components worked. I am referring to “libsane1 (1.0.27-1~experimental2ubuntu1)”, how come the developers used it. May of loyal Linux Mint users are now unable to use their scanners due to this stuff-up. I am aware it’s not only a Linux Mint problem but affect other discos based on Debian/ Ubuntu.
What's next get rid of MATE or Xfce as you did with Linux Mint KDE.
First, instead of venting your spleen, describe the problem. Second, this is an Ubuntu problem. What makes you feel that Mint is responsible for issues caused by Canonical?

https://www.bountysource.com/issues/508 ... -sane-hwdb
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+sour ... ug/1760040
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+sour ... ug/1725928
Having a Linux operating system is just like driving a car -- you learn something new everyday.

gm10
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Re: Understanding upstream bugs

Post by gm10 » Tue Jul 03, 2018 1:42 pm

mediclaser wrote:
Tue Jul 03, 2018 1:19 pm
Instrestingly, an example of my concern has been brought out in another thread recently
Not really actually. There was a bug in an upstream library, it was fixed upstream back in February, and Mint 19 shipped with the fixed library.

So clearly user error on his part, but it's not like he asked for help so nobody is gonna tell him. ;)

KBD47
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Re: Understanding upstream bugs

Post by KBD47 » Tue Jul 03, 2018 2:53 pm

LMDE and Mint are both very stable because Mint is based on a LTS release, LMDE is based on Debian Stable. I would not say LMDE is less stable than Mint. It receives fewer updates, so less likely to break, some would argue Debian Stable is better because of that. Ubuntu/Mint get kernel updates which can break your system, while Debian stable only gets security updates and stays on the same kernel. However you can set Mint to ignore level 4 kernel updates in its update policy.

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sdibaja
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Re: Understanding upstream bugs

Post by sdibaja » Sun Aug 05, 2018 9:10 pm

"I just need to understand when comparing stability between distros like Mint vs LMDE.
Does keeping LMDE based directly on Debian make it more stable than basing it on another Debian-based distro?"

this had been unclear for us LMDE freaks for quite a while. I have been a huge LMDE fan/user from it's inception, and was thrilled to have the change to Debian Stable as base with LMDE2. Our office machines all went to LMDE2 Mate, and we were happy and confident.
But my assumptions were flawed, a failed Mint experiment in May of 2017 changed all of that.

Cinnamon Desktop is the prime focus of Mint. Period. all else is incidental. Period.

The Mint team does Cinnamon very well (it is their creation). It has developed well and many people love it. It gets lots of press, many other distros offer it, even the non-Debian ones. I understand people that have only Windows and Mac experience think it is ultra cool.

Clem has repeatably said that LMDE 3 will get the very latest Cinnamon innovations and features before Linux Mint...
so ... in my opinion LMDE will be kinda a beta testing/experimental thing. Stability may be sacrificed. If something borks, Mint will fix it before it goes to the masses using Linux Mint Cinnamon.

I believe this is very clear. I do understand, and I will continue to use LMDE, but for Stability (zero down time) we require we must look to other operating systems. Home users and hobbyists might not care.

=== to quote Clem in The Blog ===
https://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=3629#comment-145064
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JeansenVaars
August 3, 2018 at 11:40 pm

Hi maybe this question has been adressed in the past,

is LMDE going to be what LM aims to in the future? or is it REALLY a backup-thing, with low priority and low resource maintained distro, for really just in case Ubuntu dissappears from one day to the other?

Because if so, it feels to me Ubuntu will always be there.
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Clem
August 4, 2018 at 3:38 pm

Hi,

It’s the latter.

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