LMDE and systemd...

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vito_spatafore
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LMDE and systemd...

Post by vito_spatafore » Fri Apr 24, 2015 6:02 pm

Will be LMDE reached by systemd on some moment?

I'm concerned cause I'm goin to install it so I don't want surprises...

tia!

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Re: LMDE and systemd...

Post by exploder » Fri Apr 24, 2015 6:36 pm

LMDE is not using systemd. This could change in the future but Clem wanted to wait and see the technology mature first.

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Re: LMDE and systemd...

Post by killer de bug » Sat Apr 25, 2015 6:27 am

LMDE2 doesn't use systemd as init system but systemd is used for various other things in the system and therefore it is present in Betsy.
If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.

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Re: LMDE and systemd...

Post by exploder » Sat Apr 25, 2015 7:09 am

Aren't the systemd elements in LMDE 2 just there for compatibility? I do not see systemd running in the background like a system that uses it by default.

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killer de bug
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Re: LMDE and systemd...

Post by killer de bug » Sat Apr 25, 2015 11:17 am

Good question. I don't really know.
On my computer, I have only this running (with the name of systemd).

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Re: LMDE and systemd...

Post by Trapper » Sun Apr 26, 2015 9:49 am

I note that after an install of Betsy MATE I have a grub menu with alternate boot selections of recovery and systemd. Interestingly, on one box, after installation I booted up to a black screen (older nvidia card).. I was going to boot up again in recovery. I saw the systemd options, tried it and it booted up easily and gave me a normal desktop display with the nouveau driver. I never did get my normal boot option to display graphics video correctly until I installed the proprietary nvidia 304 driver. Also interestingly, I also tried recovery mode prior to installing the 304 and it also gave me normal nouveau video. The default boot never would though, even when manually editing boot options. I'd get graphics video but was limited to 1024x768 resolution or below. Strange. Also strange is that if you run update-grub the systemd boot entry disappears. At least it did for me on 2 boxes.

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Re: LMDE and systemd...

Post by GregE » Mon Apr 27, 2015 8:21 pm

If you actually want to run systemd then it is easy to convert. All at your own risk.

Code: Select all

sudo apt-get install systemd-sysv
This simple command will convert your system and all you then need is a reboot. The first boot will be a little slower than normal as the system reconfigures. Debian now uses systemd as the default and so does my LMDE2.

https://wiki.debian.org/systemd

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Re: LMDE and systemd...

Post by vito_spatafore » Mon Apr 27, 2015 10:49 pm

GregE wrote:If you actually want to run systemd then it is easy to convert
THX A LOT dude but I wanna get rid of that monster :!: :!: :!:

can u tell me if this apply and if it is right for LMDE2 :?: :?: :?:

http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.p ... stallation

tia!

ps. I see u r very 'comfortable' (sarcasm 1000%) with systemd ... :roll: :x :evil:

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Re: LMDE and systemd...

Post by GregE » Tue Apr 28, 2015 1:18 am

vito_spatafore wrote:THX A LOT dude but I wanna get rid of that monster :!: :!: :!:
As above - LMDE2 does not use systemd, so just leave it alone.

All my machines use systemd. Debian uses systemd by default as does Ubuntu and Redhat/Fedora. My LMDE2 is set to track Debian Testing not sit on stable so using the default init sytem for my distro base is very sensible.

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Re: LMDE and systemd...

Post by wayne128 » Tue Apr 28, 2015 3:16 am

I am another who do not have much issue running systemd in Debian tracking sid, testing or Jessie.

Anyway I installed LMDE Betsy, fully dist-upgrade, and just check to see what are there in systemd.

Below are what I captured on terminal and post here for reference on this subject

1. My installed LMDE upgraded to latest kernel
wayne@betsy ~ $ uname -a
Linux betsy 3.16.0-4-686-pae #1 SMP Debian 3.16.7-ckt9-3~deb8u1 (2015-04-24) i686 GNU/Linux
2. check what systemd were involved with dmesg
wayne@betsy ~ $ dmesg | grep systemd
[ 1.036227] systemd-udevd[75]: starting version 215
[ 1.036464] random: systemd-udevd urandom read with 0 bits of entropy available
[ 6.368086] systemd-udevd[354]: starting version 215
[ 17.755017] systemd-hostnamed[2400]: Warning: nss-myhostname is not installed. Changing the local hostname might make it unresolveable. Please install nss-myhostname!
[ 23.387105] systemd-logind[2653]: New seat seat0.
[ 23.404065] systemd-logind[2653]: Failed to start user service: Unknown unit: user@1000.service
[ 23.409876] systemd-logind[2653]: New session c1 of user wayne.
wayne@betsy ~ $
3. Use what the OP's link, do a simulation on first command
betsy wayne # apt-get install sysvinit-core sysvinit sysvinit-utils -s
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree
Reading state information... Done
sysvinit-core is already the newest version.
sysvinit-utils is already the newest version.
The following NEW packages will be installed:
sysvinit
0 upgraded, 1 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
Inst sysvinit (2.88dsf-59 Debian:8.0/stable [i386])
Conf sysvinit (2.88dsf-59 Debian:8.0/stable [i386])
betsy wayne #
I see nothing is wrong, because nothing is removed.


4. So I go ahead to do it. at my risk LOL


5. Here come the second command from OP's link
betsy wayne # apt-get remove --purge --auto-remove systemd
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree
Reading state information... Done
The following packages will be REMOVED:
aptdaemon* blueberry* brasero* caja* caja-folder-color-switcher* colord*
gnome-bluetooth* gnome-disk-utility* gvfs* gvfs-backends* gvfs-daemons*
gvfs-fuse* hplip* libpam-systemd* libpolkit-gtk-mate-1-0* mate-applets*
mate-panel* mate-polkit* mate-power-manager* mate-system-tools*
mint-meta-debian-mate* mintstick* network-manager* network-manager-gnome*
policykit-1* policykit-1-gnome* printer-driver-postscript-hp* systemd*
udisks2*
0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 29 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
After this operation, 57.7 MB disk space will be freed.
Do you want to continue? [Y/n] n
Abort.
betsy wayne #
Well, of course I am not going ahead because it will remove many critical programs, including network manager and the mate desktop,
doing it will definitely get me into trouble... :mrgreen:

So, to the OP, keep what works. :mrgreen:

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Re: LMDE and systemd...

Post by xenopeek » Tue Apr 28, 2015 4:10 am

LMDE 2 does not use the systemd init system but it does use other systemd components. Most notable udev, the device manager which handles events when you connect or disconnect devices. For a future release LMDE might switch to default to systemd init, but that won't affect LMDE 2.

If you want to remove all components developed by the systemd project, good luck :wink:
If for whatever reason you don't want to use systemd init, there's nothing you need to do.
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Re: LMDE and systemd...

Post by MadmanRB » Thu Apr 30, 2015 7:18 pm

more systemd moaning what a surprise

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Re: LMDE and systemd...

Post by exploder » Thu Apr 30, 2015 7:29 pm

Yes, it's time to move on and find something new to complain about. Clem did the best he could with what he had to work with. People complained about Unity, Gnome Shell, KDE 4, systemd, it never ends. Surely people can find better things to do with their time than worry about an init system. So you have a few bits and pieces of systemd for compatabilty, big deal.

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Re: LMDE and systemd...

Post by GregE » Thu Apr 30, 2015 8:22 pm

exploder wrote:Yes, it's time to move on and find something new to complain about. Clem did the best he could with what he had to work with. People complained about Unity, Gnome Shell, KDE 4, systemd, it never ends. Surely people can find better things to do with their time than worry about an init system. So you have a few bits and pieces of systemd for compatabilty, big deal.
Well said.

And more and more of Debian's packages are set to use systemd as a requirement. The more you fight it (desktop users for no real reason) the more likely you will destroy your setup.

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Re: LMDE and systemd...

Post by exploder » Thu Apr 30, 2015 8:26 pm

GregE, I couldn't agree with you more! :)

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Re: LMDE and systemd...

Post by rbrick49 » Thu Apr 30, 2015 8:56 pm

I just installed it and all seems ok.all my other systems are using it with no problems

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Re: LMDE and systemd...

Post by vito_spatafore » Sat May 02, 2015 11:36 am

what bout this:
For Debian based systems

In your /etc/apt/preferences, add:

Package: systemd
Pin: origin ""
Pin-Priority: -1

More ways to prevent systemd on Debian

Some Debian based systems use Wheezy and present no systemd until end of life of wheezy as a feature, such as AntiX MX. [13] This method is perhaps overkill: [14]

There are more suggested ways to be fished out of this thread [15] & this debian wiki page [16].

Thanks to KittenGNU for this tip: "The MirOS repo has some virtual packages to prevent lennartware to install" [17]

Some debian based systems remain devoid of systemd and look unlikely to ever switch to systemd given their nature and stated goals. Distros such as: gnewsense, trisquel, kali, pointlinux,

Dyson is also devoid of systemd and looks highly unlikely to change that. mentioned separately given it's unique eccentricities (open solaris kernel!?).

See devuan, a systemdless debian fork, scroll down.
http://wiki.linuxquestions.org/wiki/Pre ... ed_systems

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Re: LMDE and systemd...

Post by GregE » Sat May 02, 2015 8:30 pm

My opinion on the state of the Linux world.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systemd#Ad ... _reception

Ask yourself why you do not want to use systemd. What real difference does it make to you? Forget all the ranting on forums and blogs by a small but vocal minority. What does it matter to an individual desktop user? All the major distros now use systemd and Ubuntu has dropped upstart and adopted systemd from 15.04 on. You can use Slackware or build your own Gentoo or wait for Devuan https://devuan.org , but in the end you are painted into a corner as the world leaves you behind.

By ripping out systemd form your system all you achieve is incompatibilities and eventual dependency hell. Every update that comes though will increase that risk. The Debian Stable that LMDE2 is based on uses systemd as the default and Mint alters that by going back to sysinit. But two years from now?

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Re: LMDE and systemd...

Post by exploder » Sat May 02, 2015 8:42 pm

I tend to agree GregE. I think LMDE 2 will hold up to updates as long as the few bits of systemd are left for compatibility.

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LMDE, systemd, logind

Post by TomRoche » Sun Jul 17, 2016 1:43 am

Just now I was attempting to enable suspend from lockscreen in my up-to-date LMDE2 using these instructions which unfortunately are not working for me (i.e., no change from previous). Is this due to LMDE2's incomplete adoption of `systemd`? I had thought LMDE2 was using the `systemd` `logind` but ICBW.

FWIW, here's what I did:

Code: Select all

me@it:~$ date ; sudo cat /etc/systemd/logind.conf
Sat Jul 16 21:53:42 MST 2016
#  This file is part of systemd.
#
#  systemd is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify it
#  under the terms of the GNU Lesser General Public License as published by
#  the Free Software Foundation; either version 2.1 of the License, or
#  (at your option) any later version.
#
# See logind.conf(5) for details

[Login]
#NAutoVTs=6
#ReserveVT=6
#KillUserProcesses=no
#KillOnlyUsers=
#KillExcludeUsers=root
#InhibitDelayMaxSec=5
#HandlePowerKey=poweroff
#HandleSuspendKey=suspend
#HandleHibernateKey=hibernate
#HandleLidSwitch=suspend
#PowerKeyIgnoreInhibited=no
#SuspendKeyIgnoreInhibited=no
#HibernateKeyIgnoreInhibited=no
#LidSwitchIgnoreInhibited=yes
#IdleAction=ignore
#IdleActionSec=30min
#RuntimeDirectorySize=10%
#RemoveIPC=yes

me@it:~$ sudo cp /etc/systemd/logind.conf /etc/systemd/logind.conf.0
me@it:~$ sudo chmod a-w /etc/systemd/logind.conf.0

# edit file, then

me@it:~$ date ; sudo diff -uwB /etc/systemd/logind.conf.0 /etc/systemd/logind.conf
Sat Jul 16 22:18:22 MST 2016
--- /etc/systemd/logind.conf.0	2015-03-10 09:03:16.000000000 -0700
+++ /etc/systemd/logind.conf	2016-07-16 22:17:42.224310188 -0700
@@ -15,13 +15,13 @@
 #KillExcludeUsers=root
 #InhibitDelayMaxSec=5
 #HandlePowerKey=poweroff
-#HandleSuspendKey=suspend
+HandleSuspendKey=suspend
 #HandleHibernateKey=hibernate
-#HandleLidSwitch=suspend
+HandleLidSwitch=lock
 #PowerKeyIgnoreInhibited=no
-#SuspendKeyIgnoreInhibited=no
+SuspendKeyIgnoreInhibited=yes
 #HibernateKeyIgnoreInhibited=no
-#LidSwitchIgnoreInhibited=yes
+LidSwitchIgnoreInhibited=yes
 #IdleAction=ignore
 #IdleActionSec=30min
 #RuntimeDirectorySize=10%

# Following action recommended @ http://superuser.com/a/751381/98270
# but seems to be failing here ... am I missing something?

me@it:~$ date ; sudo systemctl restart systemd-logind
Sat Jul 16 22:18:29 MST 2016
Failed to get D-Bus connection: Unknown error -1
I then tried the following sequence:

1. sleep box with `Fn-F4`: works as usual
2. resume box by pressing power button: works as usual
3. at lock screen, attempt to sleep box with `Fn-F4`: fails as usual

I then unlocked, and tried

1. restart box with `sudo shutdown -r now`
2. login via gdm
3. sleep box with `Fn-F4`
4. resume box by pressing power button
5. at lock screen, attempt to sleep box with `Fn-F4`: still fails as usual

So am I doing this incorrectly (in which case I'll open a separate thread), or is this failing due to LMDE2 being not yet all-the-way `systemd`ed, or am I missing Something Completely Different?

Locked

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