So how far off is LMDE 3?

Archived topics about LMDE 1 and LMDE 2
Locked
User avatar
Fred Barclay
Level 12
Level 12
Posts: 4185
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2014 11:12 am
Location: USA primarily

Re: Linux Mint Debian Edition 3

Post by Fred Barclay »

Lucap wrote:I'm in two minds if to have a play with Unstable via the advanced options or just wait for LMDE 3 :P
Debian 9 is the base for the upcoming LMDE 3.

Unstable, right now, is a glimpse of the future LMDE 4 and LMDE 5 (assuming Clem and Co still keep LMDE going). :mrgreen:

I ran unstable for several months recently - it's not too bad, really! Just have a backup plan if something breaks. I didn't have any catastrophic failures this time around, but I did have to do a complete reinstall once when I was running Unstable, right after Jessie was released.
Image
"Once you can accept the universe as matter expanding into nothing that is something, wearing stripes with plaid comes easy."
- Albert Einstein
ddurdle
Level 3
Level 3
Posts: 153
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2011 10:03 am

Re: Linux Mint Debian Edition 3

Post by ddurdle »

xenopeek wrote:
ddurdle wrote:LMDE 3 is coming out in first quarter 2018 but it will be Cinnamon only :(
Well, yes there will only be a LMDE 3 Cinnamon ISO file but you can of course install MATE or any other desktop environments later if you want to.

LMDE 2 has a newer release of MATE than will be in LMDE 3. That's because Linux Mint maintained the latest release of MATE for LMDE 2. On LMDE 3 it would instead come from the Debian stable repository and that focuses on stability and security (you only get security updates for MATE, no new releases). You could potentially use the Debian testing repository to get a newer version of MATE but I can understand this being a disappointment if you were using MATE on LMDE 2.
Yes, but from what I understand the Mint team did a lot of MATE customizations and the LMDE MATE was always a newer and modified version then what was available with Debian. Without this continued effort, I fear moving to LMDE 3 and hoping to keep MATE will be a step backwards. Time will tell.
User avatar
Fred Barclay
Level 12
Level 12
Posts: 4185
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2014 11:12 am
Location: USA primarily

Re: Linux Mint Debian Edition 3

Post by Fred Barclay »

ddurdle wrote:
xenopeek wrote:
ddurdle wrote:LMDE 3 is coming out in first quarter 2018 but it will be Cinnamon only :(
Well, yes there will only be a LMDE 3 Cinnamon ISO file but you can of course install MATE or any other desktop environments later if you want to.

LMDE 2 has a newer release of MATE than will be in LMDE 3. That's because Linux Mint maintained the latest release of MATE for LMDE 2. On LMDE 3 it would instead come from the Debian stable repository and that focuses on stability and security (you only get security updates for MATE, no new releases). You could potentially use the Debian testing repository to get a newer version of MATE but I can understand this being a disappointment if you were using MATE on LMDE 2.
Yes, but from what I understand the Mint team did a lot of MATE customizations and the LMDE MATE was always a newer and modified version then what was available with Debian. Without this continued effort, I fear moving to LMDE 3 and hoping to keep MATE will be a step backwards. Time will tell.
Re the older version of MATE in LMDE 3...
I would be willing to consider building each new version of MATE (as it's released) for LMDE 3 if some other chaps would be willing to share the workload. :)
We'd also need a repo to host the files...
Image
"Once you can accept the universe as matter expanding into nothing that is something, wearing stripes with plaid comes easy."
- Albert Einstein
User avatar
xenopeek
Level 25
Level 25
Posts: 29507
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2011 3:58 am

Re: Linux Mint Debian Edition 3

Post by xenopeek »

Fred Barclay wrote:I would be willing to consider building each new version of MATE (as it's released) for LMDE 3 if some other chaps would be willing to share the workload. :)
We'd also need a repo to host the files...
Would installing MATE from Debian testing not be pretty much the same?
Image
Lucap
Level 6
Level 6
Posts: 1038
Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 1:40 am

Re: Linux Mint Debian Edition 3

Post by Lucap »

I'll take back what i said about Debian 9 as prior to trying it i was playing around with CrunchBang for a couple of days so everything now feels big and bloated compared to that.

I've been using Debian 9 with the cinnamon desktop for the last few hours and i really like it.

How Fickle am i ? :P
User avatar
Fred Barclay
Level 12
Level 12
Posts: 4185
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2014 11:12 am
Location: USA primarily

Re: Linux Mint Debian Edition 3

Post by Fred Barclay »

xenopeek wrote: Would installing MATE from Debian testing not be pretty much the same?
Up to a point. Then as testing gets farther away from stable I'd expect to see things start breaking.

EDIT: also Testing won't contain the latest MATE after a point. For instance, while Jessie was still stable, testing never had MATE higher than 1.16, even though 1.18 had been released. If this happens again (and it will, I think), you might still be behind a version or two.
Last edited by Fred Barclay on Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Image
"Once you can accept the universe as matter expanding into nothing that is something, wearing stripes with plaid comes easy."
- Albert Einstein
User avatar
sdibaja
Level 5
Level 5
Posts: 900
Joined: Sun May 08, 2011 12:57 pm
Location: Baja California, Mexico

Re: Linux Mint Debian Edition 3

Post by sdibaja »

I suppose that would be Debian 8 testing. I prefer the Debian 9 Mate version (1.16), zero bugs and full features.
Not sure what you would get mixing LMDE with D9...
Better to stick with Stable I think.
Peter
Mate desktop https://wiki.debian.org/MATE
Debian GNU/Linux operating system: https://www.debian.org/download
User avatar
Fred Barclay
Level 12
Level 12
Posts: 4185
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2014 11:12 am
Location: USA primarily

Re: Linux Mint Debian Edition 3

Post by Fred Barclay »

sdibaja wrote:I suppose that would be Debian 8 testing. I prefer the Stretch Mate version (1.16), zero bugs and full features.
Not sure what you would get mixing LMDE with D9...
G'day sdibaja,
Debian 8 "Jessie" is actually "oldstable". ;) That means it was the previous version of stable. Now, however, Debian 9 "Stretch" is stable, Debian 10 "Buster" is testing, and Debian Sid is unstable.

LMDE 2, our current version, is based on Debian 8, the oldstable version. Sometime next year, LMDE 3 will be released, based on Debian 9 Stretch. If, on LMDE 3, you install MATE from the debian repos, you'll always have MATE 1.16.
Image
"Once you can accept the universe as matter expanding into nothing that is something, wearing stripes with plaid comes easy."
- Albert Einstein
User avatar
sdibaja
Level 5
Level 5
Posts: 900
Joined: Sun May 08, 2011 12:57 pm
Location: Baja California, Mexico

Re: Linux Mint Debian Edition 3

Post by sdibaja »

Understood. Mate 1.18 is not yet Stable, so not in D9.
Peter
Mate desktop https://wiki.debian.org/MATE
Debian GNU/Linux operating system: https://www.debian.org/download
User avatar
Fred Barclay
Level 12
Level 12
Posts: 4185
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2014 11:12 am
Location: USA primarily

Re: Linux Mint Debian Edition 3

Post by Fred Barclay »

sdibaja wrote:Understood. Mate 1.18 is not yet Stable, so not in D9.
Right. Debian 9 will never have MATE 1.18.
Image
"Once you can accept the universe as matter expanding into nothing that is something, wearing stripes with plaid comes easy."
- Albert Einstein
User avatar
clem
Level 12
Level 12
Posts: 4303
Joined: Wed Nov 15, 2006 8:34 am
Contact:

Re: Linux Mint Debian Edition 3

Post by clem »

Hi Fred,

It's too soon for us to commit, so I don't really want to say too much, but I'm confident ppl will continue to be able to get the latest MATE in LMDE 3. Whether we'll help with hosting, or even continue to package MATE ourselves, again.. too soon to commit, but I wouldn't worry too much about it.

We use a build farm to build our packages... we'll have to build for Cindy, so Cinnamon/Xapps builds will target both Mint and LMDE 3 and we'll have to continue to build MATE for Mint. So say a new MATE version is out, we probably won't build it "just" for LMDE 3, but when the time comes to build it for the next upcoming Mint release, it shouldn't cost us much to target LMDE 3 as well, get the packages and add them to Cindy's repositories.

Regarding Debian's version of MATE, I wouldn't recommend it. Stretch is already behind (MATE 1.16) compared to LMDE 2 (MATE 1.18), and even if testing ships 1.20 when it's out, it will be built against testing, not stretch, so it won't be compatible with LMDE 3 without a base jump away from Stretch..
Image
User avatar
Fred Barclay
Level 12
Level 12
Posts: 4185
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2014 11:12 am
Location: USA primarily

Re: Linux Mint Debian Edition 3

Post by Fred Barclay »

clem wrote:Hi Fred,

It's too soon for us to commit, so I don't really want to say too much, but I'm confident ppl will continue to be able to get the latest MATE in LMDE 3. Whether we'll help with hosting, or even continue to package MATE ourselves, again.. too soon to commit, but I wouldn't worry too much about it.

We use a build farm to build our packages... we'll have to build for Cindy, so Cinnamon/Xapps builds will target both Mint and LMDE 3 and we'll have to continue to build MATE for Mint. So say a new MATE version is out, we probably won't build it "just" for LMDE 3, but when the time comes to build it for the next upcoming Mint release, it shouldn't cost us much to target LMDE 3 as well, get the packages and add them to Cindy's repositories.
Oh? That's good news then! :D
Image
"Once you can accept the universe as matter expanding into nothing that is something, wearing stripes with plaid comes easy."
- Albert Einstein
Lucap
Level 6
Level 6
Posts: 1038
Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 1:40 am

Re: Linux Mint Debian Edition 3

Post by Lucap »

Fred Barclay wrote:Debian installs, for me, have always been reasonably small - more so than Mint.
You're right..

Everyone bangs on about how small Arch Linux is yet after wasting last night fighting with Arch it was only 2GB smaller than a full install of Debian. :)
kevinthefixer
Level 4
Level 4
Posts: 280
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2015 10:36 pm

Re: Linux Mint Debian Edition 3

Post by kevinthefixer »

Lucap wrote:
Fred Barclay wrote:Debian installs, for me, have always been reasonably small - more so than Mint.
You're right..

Everyone bangs on about how small Arch Linux is yet after wasting last night fighting with Arch it was only 2GB smaller than a full install of Debian. :)
Arch is what you make of it, no more and no less. It's aimed at experienced pros and advanced hobbyists. Ubuntu and Mint main are going to be larger and more bloated because they are aimed at users with less experience who wouldn't know what to do or where to look if it won't work. LMDE is in between and suits me; Arch is too much work; Ubuntu reminds me too much of what I don't like about Windows.
jonnymopar

Re: Linux Mint Debian Edition 3

Post by jonnymopar »

I was poking around looking for new info on LMDE 3 and ran across this thread. I just had to comment.
kevinthefixer wrote:LMDE is in between and suits me; Arch is too much work; Ubuntu reminds me too much of what I don't like about Windows.
Absolutely sums up the core of why I like LMDE and why I've done quite a bit less distro-hopping since I started using it. I was happy to see that LMDE 3 was in the works. I'm even happier that the general attitude towards LMDE leads me to believe that it will be around for the foreseeable future despite being far less popular than Mint.
mike acker
Level 7
Level 7
Posts: 1517
Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2013 6:29 pm
Location: Kalamazoo, MI

Re: Linux Mint Debian Edition 3

Post by mike acker »

jonnymopar wrote:< snip >

Absolutely sums up the core of why I like LMDE and why I've done quite a bit less distro-hopping since I started using it. I was happy to see that LMDE 3 was in the works. I'm even happier that the general attitude towards LMDE leads me to believe that it will be around for the foreseeable future despite being far less popular than Mint.
yep

I've got a straight DEBIAN loaded on the Research Box; that works well-- but, as noted -- that's a bit farther out on the plank.....

LMDE is ideal, IMHO. I'd just as soon they'd drop the Ubuntu base packages and focus on the LMDE.

I have 2 hopes for the up-coming LMDE/3:

1. stop the KDE programs from comandeering the audio system if it is allocated to -- e.g. music player. we do not need them to slam the vol. control to 11 so they can emit a squawk

2. honor the 'ignore updates for this program'

I'd like to seem them move to the new Linux/stable but I don't see this as all that much of an issue. I could load a kernel if I wanted to but then i'd be responsible for updating it too
¡Viva la Resistencia!
Hansl
Level 3
Level 3
Posts: 122
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2011 3:50 pm

Re: Linux Mint Debian Edition 3

Post by Hansl »

This is getting urgent…  many projects seem to have dropped support of Jessie in the last few months! 
For instance I cannot install qtox nor ring anymore.
I have just finished setting up a new LMDE2 / Mate machine which took several days to complete my long checklist of personal additions/settings — now I'm disappointed. I would hate to repeat this effort even larger with an genuine Debian Stretch install, or much more work and learning with Arch.

Please please, put forward LMDE3!
Lucap
Level 6
Level 6
Posts: 1038
Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 1:40 am

Re: Linux Mint Debian Edition 3

Post by Lucap »

Sadly unless Clem has plans for LMDE we will just end up in the same situation of the base files being so far behind you can't install the latest revision of software as the situation we have now.

There's a fine line between stability and having put up with crippled out date software such as not being able to use media codecs to there full potential or later revisions of software with features and functions missing.
User avatar
Bolle1961
Level 5
Level 5
Posts: 889
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2010 12:59 pm

Re: Linux Mint Debian Edition 3

Post by Bolle1961 »

LMDE2 was released even before Debian Jessie was released. So why it has to take so long with LMDE3 I really don't understand.
Penn

Re: Linux Mint Debian Edition 3

Post by Penn »

Bolle1961 wrote:LMDE2 was released even before Debian Jessie was released. So why it has to take so long with LMDE3 I really don't understand.
The original LMDE was a rolling release based on Jessie while Wheezy was the stable Debian version. Not sure of the order it happened, but Ikey (Doherty, the main original LMDE developer) left and LMDE2 dropped the rolling release approach. Debian is extremely conservative in their releases so it was really stable for a few months before the "official" stable release. Due to Ikey's work LMDE2 was ready.

No Ikey means LMDE3 won't be released until the base will be nearly a year old. Considering most Linux long term support distros are every 2 years it won't take long until LMDE3 is outdated.

I have noticed this subforum has less activity than it used to have. I think a lot of people that want something newer already jumped to pure Debian Stretch. On one machine I've been testing it out for quite a while. When I get time, I will be switching this one, my primary machine, over to it.

LMDE is losing users. I'd try to help but I dont' have enough time or programming experience.

Do you know any developers with time and a desire to develop LMDE? Would Clem make use of such a person?
Locked

Return to “LMDE Archive”