Linux Mint Debian Edition 3

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Fred Barclay
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Re: Linux Mint Debian Edition 3

Post by Fred Barclay » Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:27 am

Lucap wrote:I'm in two minds if to have a play with Unstable via the advanced options or just wait for LMDE 3 :P
Debian 9 is the base for the upcoming LMDE 3.

Unstable, right now, is a glimpse of the future LMDE 4 and LMDE 5 (assuming Clem and Co still keep LMDE going). :mrgreen:

I ran unstable for several months recently - it's not too bad, really! Just have a backup plan if something breaks. I didn't have any catastrophic failures this time around, but I did have to do a complete reinstall once when I was running Unstable, right after Jessie was released.
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Re: Linux Mint Debian Edition 3

Post by ddurdle » Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:47 am

xenopeek wrote:
ddurdle wrote:LMDE 3 is coming out in first quarter 2018 but it will be Cinnamon only :(
Well, yes there will only be a LMDE 3 Cinnamon ISO file but you can of course install MATE or any other desktop environments later if you want to.

LMDE 2 has a newer release of MATE than will be in LMDE 3. That's because Linux Mint maintained the latest release of MATE for LMDE 2. On LMDE 3 it would instead come from the Debian stable repository and that focuses on stability and security (you only get security updates for MATE, no new releases). You could potentially use the Debian testing repository to get a newer version of MATE but I can understand this being a disappointment if you were using MATE on LMDE 2.
Yes, but from what I understand the Mint team did a lot of MATE customizations and the LMDE MATE was always a newer and modified version then what was available with Debian. Without this continued effort, I fear moving to LMDE 3 and hoping to keep MATE will be a step backwards. Time will tell.

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Re: Linux Mint Debian Edition 3

Post by Fred Barclay » Sun Nov 12, 2017 2:08 am

ddurdle wrote:
xenopeek wrote:
ddurdle wrote:LMDE 3 is coming out in first quarter 2018 but it will be Cinnamon only :(
Well, yes there will only be a LMDE 3 Cinnamon ISO file but you can of course install MATE or any other desktop environments later if you want to.

LMDE 2 has a newer release of MATE than will be in LMDE 3. That's because Linux Mint maintained the latest release of MATE for LMDE 2. On LMDE 3 it would instead come from the Debian stable repository and that focuses on stability and security (you only get security updates for MATE, no new releases). You could potentially use the Debian testing repository to get a newer version of MATE but I can understand this being a disappointment if you were using MATE on LMDE 2.
Yes, but from what I understand the Mint team did a lot of MATE customizations and the LMDE MATE was always a newer and modified version then what was available with Debian. Without this continued effort, I fear moving to LMDE 3 and hoping to keep MATE will be a step backwards. Time will tell.
Re the older version of MATE in LMDE 3...
I would be willing to consider building each new version of MATE (as it's released) for LMDE 3 if some other chaps would be willing to share the workload. :)
We'd also need a repo to host the files...
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Re: Linux Mint Debian Edition 3

Post by xenopeek » Sun Nov 12, 2017 4:33 am

Fred Barclay wrote:I would be willing to consider building each new version of MATE (as it's released) for LMDE 3 if some other chaps would be willing to share the workload. :)
We'd also need a repo to host the files...
Would installing MATE from Debian testing not be pretty much the same?
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Re: Linux Mint Debian Edition 3

Post by Lucap » Sun Nov 12, 2017 5:24 am

I'll take back what i said about Debian 9 as prior to trying it i was playing around with CrunchBang for a couple of days so everything now feels big and bloated compared to that.

I've been using Debian 9 with the cinnamon desktop for the last few hours and i really like it.

How Fickle am i ? :P

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Re: Linux Mint Debian Edition 3

Post by Fred Barclay » Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:48 pm

xenopeek wrote: Would installing MATE from Debian testing not be pretty much the same?
Up to a point. Then as testing gets farther away from stable I'd expect to see things start breaking.

EDIT: also Testing won't contain the latest MATE after a point. For instance, while Jessie was still stable, testing never had MATE higher than 1.16, even though 1.18 had been released. If this happens again (and it will, I think), you might still be behind a version or two.
Last edited by Fred Barclay on Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Linux Mint Debian Edition 3

Post by sdibaja » Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:55 pm

I suppose that would be Debian 8 testing. I prefer the Debian 9 Mate version (1.16), zero bugs and full features.
Not sure what you would get mixing LMDE with D9...
Better to stick with Stable I think.

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Re: Linux Mint Debian Edition 3

Post by Fred Barclay » Sun Nov 12, 2017 2:02 pm

sdibaja wrote:I suppose that would be Debian 8 testing. I prefer the Stretch Mate version (1.16), zero bugs and full features.
Not sure what you would get mixing LMDE with D9...
G'day sdibaja,
Debian 8 "Jessie" is actually "oldstable". ;) That means it was the previous version of stable. Now, however, Debian 9 "Stretch" is stable, Debian 10 "Buster" is testing, and Debian Sid is unstable.

LMDE 2, our current version, is based on Debian 8, the oldstable version. Sometime next year, LMDE 3 will be released, based on Debian 9 Stretch. If, on LMDE 3, you install MATE from the debian repos, you'll always have MATE 1.16.
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Re: Linux Mint Debian Edition 3

Post by sdibaja » Sun Nov 12, 2017 2:16 pm

Understood. Mate 1.18 is not yet Stable, so not in D9.

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Re: Linux Mint Debian Edition 3

Post by Fred Barclay » Sun Nov 12, 2017 2:19 pm

sdibaja wrote:Understood. Mate 1.18 is not yet Stable, so not in D9.
Right. Debian 9 will never have MATE 1.18.
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Re: Linux Mint Debian Edition 3

Post by clem » Sun Nov 12, 2017 3:24 pm

Hi Fred,

It's too soon for us to commit, so I don't really want to say too much, but I'm confident ppl will continue to be able to get the latest MATE in LMDE 3. Whether we'll help with hosting, or even continue to package MATE ourselves, again.. too soon to commit, but I wouldn't worry too much about it.

We use a build farm to build our packages... we'll have to build for Cindy, so Cinnamon/Xapps builds will target both Mint and LMDE 3 and we'll have to continue to build MATE for Mint. So say a new MATE version is out, we probably won't build it "just" for LMDE 3, but when the time comes to build it for the next upcoming Mint release, it shouldn't cost us much to target LMDE 3 as well, get the packages and add them to Cindy's repositories.

Regarding Debian's version of MATE, I wouldn't recommend it. Stretch is already behind (MATE 1.16) compared to LMDE 2 (MATE 1.18), and even if testing ships 1.20 when it's out, it will be built against testing, not stretch, so it won't be compatible with LMDE 3 without a base jump away from Stretch..
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Re: Linux Mint Debian Edition 3

Post by Fred Barclay » Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:31 pm

clem wrote:Hi Fred,

It's too soon for us to commit, so I don't really want to say too much, but I'm confident ppl will continue to be able to get the latest MATE in LMDE 3. Whether we'll help with hosting, or even continue to package MATE ourselves, again.. too soon to commit, but I wouldn't worry too much about it.

We use a build farm to build our packages... we'll have to build for Cindy, so Cinnamon/Xapps builds will target both Mint and LMDE 3 and we'll have to continue to build MATE for Mint. So say a new MATE version is out, we probably won't build it "just" for LMDE 3, but when the time comes to build it for the next upcoming Mint release, it shouldn't cost us much to target LMDE 3 as well, get the packages and add them to Cindy's repositories.
Oh? That's good news then! :D
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Re: Linux Mint Debian Edition 3

Post by Lucap » Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:26 am

Fred Barclay wrote:Debian installs, for me, have always been reasonably small - more so than Mint.
You're right..

Everyone bangs on about how small Arch Linux is yet after wasting last night fighting with Arch it was only 2GB smaller than a full install of Debian. :)

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Re: Linux Mint Debian Edition 3

Post by kevinthefixer » Sun Nov 26, 2017 3:32 pm

Lucap wrote:
Fred Barclay wrote:Debian installs, for me, have always been reasonably small - more so than Mint.
You're right..

Everyone bangs on about how small Arch Linux is yet after wasting last night fighting with Arch it was only 2GB smaller than a full install of Debian. :)
Arch is what you make of it, no more and no less. It's aimed at experienced pros and advanced hobbyists. Ubuntu and Mint main are going to be larger and more bloated because they are aimed at users with less experience who wouldn't know what to do or where to look if it won't work. LMDE is in between and suits me; Arch is too much work; Ubuntu reminds me too much of what I don't like about Windows.

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Re: Linux Mint Debian Edition 3

Post by jonnymopar » Thu Dec 28, 2017 2:48 pm

I was poking around looking for new info on LMDE 3 and ran across this thread. I just had to comment.
kevinthefixer wrote:LMDE is in between and suits me; Arch is too much work; Ubuntu reminds me too much of what I don't like about Windows.
Absolutely sums up the core of why I like LMDE and why I've done quite a bit less distro-hopping since I started using it. I was happy to see that LMDE 3 was in the works. I'm even happier that the general attitude towards LMDE leads me to believe that it will be around for the foreseeable future despite being far less popular than Mint.

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Re: Linux Mint Debian Edition 3

Post by mike acker » Sat Dec 30, 2017 11:05 am

jonnymopar wrote:< snip >

Absolutely sums up the core of why I like LMDE and why I've done quite a bit less distro-hopping since I started using it. I was happy to see that LMDE 3 was in the works. I'm even happier that the general attitude towards LMDE leads me to believe that it will be around for the foreseeable future despite being far less popular than Mint.
yep

I've got a straight DEBIAN loaded on the Research Box; that works well-- but, as noted -- that's a bit farther out on the plank.....

LMDE is ideal, IMHO. I'd just as soon they'd drop the Ubuntu base packages and focus on the LMDE.

I have 2 hopes for the up-coming LMDE/3:

1. stop the KDE programs from comandeering the audio system if it is allocated to -- e.g. music player. we do not need them to slam the vol. control to 11 so they can emit a squawk

2. honor the 'ignore updates for this program'

I'd like to seem them move to the new Linux/stable but I don't see this as all that much of an issue. I could load a kernel if I wanted to but then i'd be responsible for updating it too
¡Viva la Resistencia!

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Re: Linux Mint Debian Edition 3

Post by Hansl » Tue Jan 02, 2018 6:47 pm

This is getting urgent…  many projects seem to have dropped support of Jessie in the last few months! 
For instance I cannot install qtox nor ring anymore.
I have just finished setting up a new LMDE2 / Mate machine which took several days to complete my long checklist of personal additions/settings — now I'm disappointed. I would hate to repeat this effort even larger with an genuine Debian Stretch install, or much more work and learning with Arch.

Please please, put forward LMDE3!

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Re: Linux Mint Debian Edition 3

Post by Lucap » Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:57 am

Sadly unless Clem has plans for LMDE we will just end up in the same situation of the base files being so far behind you can't install the latest revision of software as the situation we have now.

There's a fine line between stability and having put up with crippled out date software such as not being able to use media codecs to there full potential or later revisions of software with features and functions missing.

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Re: Linux Mint Debian Edition 3

Post by Bolle1961 » Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:44 am

LMDE2 was released even before Debian Jessie was released. So why it has to take so long with LMDE3 I really don't understand.

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Re: Linux Mint Debian Edition 3

Post by Penn » Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:57 am

Bolle1961 wrote:LMDE2 was released even before Debian Jessie was released. So why it has to take so long with LMDE3 I really don't understand.
The original LMDE was a rolling release based on Jessie while Wheezy was the stable Debian version. Not sure of the order it happened, but Ikey (Doherty, the main original LMDE developer) left and LMDE2 dropped the rolling release approach. Debian is extremely conservative in their releases so it was really stable for a few months before the "official" stable release. Due to Ikey's work LMDE2 was ready.

No Ikey means LMDE3 won't be released until the base will be nearly a year old. Considering most Linux long term support distros are every 2 years it won't take long until LMDE3 is outdated.

I have noticed this subforum has less activity than it used to have. I think a lot of people that want something newer already jumped to pure Debian Stretch. On one machine I've been testing it out for quite a while. When I get time, I will be switching this one, my primary machine, over to it.

LMDE is losing users. I'd try to help but I dont' have enough time or programming experience.

Do you know any developers with time and a desire to develop LMDE? Would Clem make use of such a person?

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