Any info for an LMDE newbie?

te7 · Post by **te7** » Fri Jun 26, 2015 7:50 am

I just installed LMDE2 Mint in VirtualBox. I wanted to try it out. What can I expect to be different about LMDE? Things I should know? The list doesn't have to be long. Just some info for LMDE newbies. I've been using the Cinnamon releases for quite a while now. I notice the LMDE has CInnamon also. As far as using the LMDE desktop version of Mint, what are the main differences as far as using the desktop and maintenance or setup? Thanks in advance for any replies for this LMDE newbie.

Post by **xenopeek** » Fri Jun 26, 2015 8:25 am

te7 wrote:What can I expect to be different about LMDE?

Different as compared to what? You mean as compared with like Linux Mint 17.x?

Hoser Rob · Post by **Hoser Rob** » Fri Jun 26, 2015 8:31 am

Honestly, I don't think the words 'lmde' and 'newbie' belong in the same sentence.

Plus the support in the lmde section in this forum is, shall we say, lacking. I wouldn't expect a lot of hand holding. That's true of debian anyway. If you post threads on their forums asking at a noob level, they're likely to suggest installing ubuntu or mint instead. Depends on your skill level and if you know what questions to ask.

I'd kind of expect speed though. Debian is fast, though I don't know if lmde is quite so much.

LMDE 2 is based on Jessie, which is the stable branch. That's good ... debian 'stable' is very stable. Their testing releases are more stable than a lot of distros' stable releases. The downside is that you won't get the newest software. And I wouldn't backport a stable setup unless I absolutely had to for hardware support.

Apparently you can't use ppa's with LMDE either from what I've read. I'm pretty sanguine about that too. Using PPAs is one of the most common beginner mistakes.

IMHO if I want debian I'll just install debian. I'm thinking of putting debian 8 Jessie on my netbook but I'm not sure the wireless firmware package is quite there yet.

te7 · Post by **te7** » Fri Jun 26, 2015 9:00 am

Thanks for the reply. I really appreciate it.

exploder · Post by **exploder** » Fri Jun 26, 2015 9:40 am

My opinion is that LMDE 2 has a more refined base. My laptop has Mint 17.2 Cinnamon x64 installed, it constantly gets updates. My desktop has LMDE 2 Cinnamon x64 installed and the frequency of updates is way less. Debian does not follow a strict release schedule, they release when all critical bugs have been fixed. Ubuntu releases have a strict schedule they follow and a higher chance of remaining bugs in their final release.

LMDE 2 does not have the convenience of ppa repos or a simple method of installing proprietary drivers though. LMDE 2 does receive new versions of Cinnamon like the main edition along with all of the Mint specific packages. In my opinion, Debian updates are safe to install and I do not need to be very concerned about an update breaking anything. The Ubuntu based edition does not instill me with the same confidence.

As for support, the main edition has more support topics simply because more people are running it. The main edition is more newbe friendly as far as the install process after all and is aimed at new users. I chose LMDE 2 Cinnamon for my main desktop because I wanted reliability above all else.

te7 · Post by **te7** » Fri Jun 26, 2015 11:28 am

Thanks for the info. I appreciate it.

Jeepty · Post by **Jeepty** » Fri Jun 26, 2015 12:00 pm

Also, the kernel update process is different. In the main edition, you can change your kernel through the update manager gui. That is not so in lmde2. You either need to compile your favorite kernel, or possibly use synaptic (there may be other ways too).

Fred Barclay · Post by **Fred Barclay** » Fri Jun 26, 2015 12:14 pm

As the others have said, a big difference is the lack of ppa's in LMDE. I never used a ppa in normal Mint, so I'm a little fuzzy on what their purpose is...

But apparently, they're a big deal to some users.
LMDE is very stable, due to the Debian Stable base. It is also a bit slower on boot time than pure Debian, but not enough to be an issue.
Now as for, "If I wanted Debian I'd just install Debian." Been there, done that. LMDE is nicer (at least at first), Debian is lighter and, IMHO, offers easier customisation (again, at least at first). They're both fun!

My main advice would be: Don't assume that just because an online guide works for Mint, it will work for LMDE. The file structure and inner workings of Mint and LMDE are a little different, so some guides that tell you to cd into xyz location on Mint may give you a shock when you realise there's no such place on LMDE. Also, some .deb packages that are designed for Ubuntu or Mint will not install or work properly on LMDE. If there's a Debian package and a Ubuntu package, choose the Debian one for LMDE.

As for the kernel, I use liquorix and love it. Not a problem yet, and installation is easy! The updates come through the update manager too, although they are level 5, so you won't see them or install them unless you make level 5 updates visible.

Have fun rushing in where most Mint users fear to tread!
Fred

te7 · Post by **te7** » Fri Jun 26, 2015 12:43 pm

Thanks for the info, Fred, I appreciate it.

Best Regards,
Tom

cpoakes · Post by **cpoakes** » Fri Jun 26, 2015 1:10 pm

Welcome to LMDE, Tom.

Hoser Rob wrote:Honestly, I don't think the words 'lmde' and 'newbie' belong in the same sentence.

My stomach clenches at any combination of Debian and newbie as well, so I am relieved to infer that you are already familiar with Linux. The combination of Linux newbie and Debian newbie is often overwhelming as Debian involves a lot of choices and doesn't always "just work out-of-the-box". As already implied, this is good reason to recommend Linux Mint or another 'buntu as a first introduction to Linux.

te7 · Post by **te7** » Fri Jun 26, 2015 2:32 pm

Yes I've been using Linux for several years now, mostly Ubuntu (even before Unity) and Mint, but I've tried other distros. I guess I could say I'm a seasoned intermediate Linux user. I always seem to come back to Mint. I have CInnamon, both 32 & 64 bit, XFCE, and Ubuntu, and now LMDE all in VirtualBox. I'm a software developer that does mainly Windows applications, but also do some Linux development in Qt.

Fred Barclay · Post by **Fred Barclay** » Fri Jun 26, 2015 3:33 pm

te7 wrote:Yes I've been using Linux for several years now, mostly Ubuntu (even before Unity) and Mint, but I've tried other distros. I guess I could say I'm a seasoned intermediate Linux user. I always seem to come back to Mint. I have CInnamon, both 32 & 64 bit, XFCE, and Ubuntu, and now LMDE all in VirtualBox. I'm a software developer that does mainly Windows applications, but also do some Linux development in Qt.

Just curious: I notice you mentioned that you run all of these in VBox. What is your host/main OS? Windows? Linux? OS X? *BSD?

Post by **xenopeek** » Fri Jun 26, 2015 4:52 pm

If you're already familiar with Linux but want some more in depth knowledge about Debian, I can highly recommend the (free) Debian Administrator's Handbook: https://debian-handbook.info/. An excellent written guide and reference, suitable for all levels of experience. Most of it can be used on LMDE.

te7 · Post by **te7** » Fri Jun 26, 2015 5:07 pm

Thanks.

oats · Post by **oats** » Sun Jun 28, 2015 3:11 am

I wanted to comment on the thoughts re/ debian.

I am not sure how or why many get an impression of debian as intimidating, or not welcoming to newcomers. Most of the debian community wishes there were _more_ newcomers who wanted to learn, and are more than happy to help them learn the ways. It is quite unlike people of the debian community to steer linux newcomers to ubuntu etc. It is in fact frowned upon, because ubuntu (and ubuntu based distros) while wonderful distros, have a negative affect on the knowledge base of users as a whole.

The debian knowledge base is massive. If you ever can't figure out a solution here on the lmde forums, I would hop over there and check it out. Or jump in one of their irc channels. Speak up if you have a question, however basic or complex. I think you'll find people quite happy to offer help with both problem solving as far as learning anything you can think of. Knowledge is power

cpoakes · Post by **cpoakes** » Sun Jun 28, 2015 7:44 am

oats wrote:I wanted to comment on the thoughts re/ debian.

I am not sure how or why many get an impression of debian as intimidating, or not welcoming to newcomers. Most of the debian community wishes there were _more_ newcomers who wanted to learn, and are more than happy to help them learn the ways. It is quite unlike people of the debian community to steer linux newcomers to ubuntu etc. It is in fact frowned upon, because ubuntu (and ubuntu based distros) while wonderful distros, have a negative affect on the knowledge base of users as a whole.

The debian knowledge base is massive. If you ever can't figure out a solution here on the lmde forums, I would hop over there and check it out. Or jump in one of their irc channels. Speak up if you have a question, however basic or complex. I think you'll find people quite happy to offer help with both problem solving as far as learning anything you can think of. Knowledge is power

Respectfully, I inhabit a different part of the Debian universe than you. To understanding the intimidating reputation I am familiar with, try searching "unfriendly" or "sucks" at forums.debian.net.

I would summarize it this way: there are newbies (naive and willing to learn) and then there are newbies (naive and expecting plug-and-play). I wholeheartedly support newbies exploring, experimenting, trying, failing, wrestling with the Social Contract, and asking naive questions. However, I an intolerant of newbies who complain the installation has too many choices without attempting to understand how Debian embraces choice; whine about the installer asking for firmware without attempting to understand non-free firmware and the Social Contract; or declare Debian is rubbish and unfriendly because it doesn't automatically include their wifi firmware, proprietary video drivers, and non-free applications. These users should be and are frequently steered to another distribution without these features. Even LMDE is constructed to circumvent some of these features by including non-free firmware.

Debian does not, I repeat does not work out-of-the-box for a significant number of systems (most laptop wifi installations, newer video/network hardware, etc). It can work for many systems, but anyone who assumes (or is told) the OS will just install and work without getting one's hands dirty may be in for a rude awakening. And so the reputation.

Suggesting Debian to naive users without the "getting your dirty hands caveat" is reckless and contributes to the intimidating reputation.

killer de bug · Post by **killer de bug** » Sun Jun 28, 2015 9:43 am

cpoakes wrote:However, I an intolerant of newbies who complain the installation has too many choices without attempting to understand how Debian embraces choice; whine about the installer asking for firmware without attempting to understand non-free firmware and the Social Contract; or declare Debian is rubbish and unfriendly because it doesn't automatically include their wifi firmware, proprietary video drivers, and non-free applications.

Totally agree with this!

cpoakes wrote:Suggesting Debian to naive users without the "getting your dirty hands caveat" is reckless and contributes to the intimidating reputation.

I also totally agree with this!

Fred Barclay · Post by **Fred Barclay** » Sun Jun 28, 2015 12:25 pm

killer de bug wrote:
cpoakes wrote:However, I an intolerant of newbies who complain the installation has too many choices without attempting to understand how Debian embraces choice; whine about the installer asking for firmware without attempting to understand non-free firmware and the Social Contract; or declare Debian is rubbish and unfriendly because it doesn't automatically include their wifi firmware, proprietary video drivers, and non-free applications.
Totally agree with this!

cpoakes wrote:Suggesting Debian to naive users without the "getting your dirty hands caveat" is reckless and contributes to the intimidating reputation.
I also totally agree with this!

And so so I!

Crewp · Post by **Crewp** » Sun Jun 28, 2015 12:37 pm

Well said cpoakes.

MALsPa · Post by **MALsPa** » Sun Jun 28, 2015 1:35 pm

te7 wrote:What can I expect to be different about LMDE? Things I should know?

When I first saw this, I was thinking of the differences between LMDE 2 and Debian Jessie.

I've been following this thread because I'm "an LMDE newbie" -- it's been a long time since I've had any Mint release installed here (Isadora was my last one), and I was never all that interested in trying the earlier, Testing-based versions of LMDE.

I've been running an installation of Debian Jessie with GNOME Shell, and with Cinnamon added. I found it interesting to note the differences in the default set-up in /etc/apt in LMDE 2 in comparison to that in Jessie, where you start out with the basic Debian /etc/apt/sources.list with no apt-pinning.

I like to use Synaptic for updates in Debian but in LMDE 2 it seems best to use Mint Update. I'll admit that I've never much cared for Mint's approach to using "Levels" -- I always thought of it as excessive hand-holding. But now I've kinda warmed up to it. I never worry about running into problems after bringing in updates in Debian Stable, but I can see where, with the the way things are set up in LMDE, this "Levels" system is a good way to go.

I've had LMDE 2 installed for only a couple of months, and I don't use it all that much, but I'm getting the impression that it'll turn out to be close to as "stable" as Jessie, over time.

I guess my only other comment about a comparison between LMDE 2 and Jessie with Cinnamon is that it looks like LMDE 2 will get the latest Mint packages. I've now got Cinnamon 2.6.7 in LMDE, but in Jessie it's Cinnamon 2.2.16-5, and that won't be changing in Jessie.

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