Systemd and LMDE (The future)

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mzsade
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Systemd and LMDE (The future)

Postby mzsade » Sun Aug 02, 2015 12:59 am

Amidst all the raging debate between the zealous anti-systemd freaks and the systemd apologists, i've noticed Linux Mint (LMDE) has quietly gone about it's business and stuck to init without making a huge fuss about it. Even though i haven't a clue about the nitty-gritties of this whole systemd v/s init and sysvinit business, as an average user i am curious to know the rationale behind it and what are LMDE's plans in this regard for the future, now that Debian has adopted systemd as the de facto standard.
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xenopeek
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Re: Systemd and LMDE (The future)

Postby xenopeek » Sun Aug 02, 2015 2:34 am

The Linux Mint developers don't have anything against systemd init. AFAIK they recognize it as a useful tool for building operating systems, with the systemd project making strides to provide for a common userland for Linux distros (though not yet in-tree like on Unix and BSD). Despite Debian 8 switching to systemd by default, Linux Mint decided during development of LMDE 2 that it was still early (for Linux Mint) to use it by default and would delay adoption of systemd init for at least one cycle to let any issues be ironed out. Likely with Linux Mint 18 (based on Ubuntu LTS 16.04) and LMDE 3 (based on Debian 9) a switch will be made to systemd init.

So the reason is more a kind of "wait and see what happens to Ubuntu and Debian using it by default, before we use it".
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Zill
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Re: Systemd and LMDE (The future)

Postby Zill » Sun Aug 02, 2015 5:46 am

mzsade wrote:... what are LMDE's plans in this regard for the future, now that Debian has adopted systemd as the de facto standard.

The great thing about GNU/Linux is that there is no "one size fits all" solution and so it is perfectly acceptable for different distros to approach things in different ways.

I wouldn't get too "hung-up" about "standards"... As Andrew S. Tanenbaum sagely observed; "The nice thing about standards is that you have so many to choose from." ;-)

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Re: Systemd and LMDE (The future)

Postby Crewp » Sun Aug 02, 2015 7:59 am

From what I have heard on the Debian forums, is the average user doesn't even notice any difference.
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Re: Systemd and LMDE (The future)

Postby mzsade » Wed Aug 05, 2015 5:18 am

xenopeek wrote:The Linux Mint developers don't have anything against systemd init. AFAIK they recognize it as a useful tool for building operating systems, with the systemd project making strides to provide for a common userland for Linux distros (though not yet in-tree like on Unix and BSD). Despite Debian 8 switching to systemd by default, Linux Mint decided during development of LMDE 2 that it was still early (for Linux Mint) to use it by default and would delay adoption of systemd init for at least one cycle to let any issues be ironed out. Likely with Linux Mint 18 (based on Ubuntu LTS 16.04) and LMDE 3 (based on Debian 9) a switch will be made to systemd init.

So the reason is more a kind of "wait and see what happens to Ubuntu and Debian using it by default, before we use it".


+1 Makes perfect sense to me, it's not as if Debian has switched over to systemd in it's entirety, i know for a fact that network services are still managed by NetworkManager and not networkd. And thanks for replying to a question that had already been answered here, http://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=2764. Sorry for not looking it up first.

...Similar to Linux Mint 17.x, LMDE 2 “Betsy” will be using the traditional sysvinit. The move to systemd could happen with Linux Mint 18 and LMDE 3, giving this new technology and the Linux ecosystem 2 years (or more) to mature and to iron out integration and compatibility issues. Cinnamon in particular is built without systemd support by default and the development team is planning to change this in version 2.6 to give the DE the ability to switch at runtime between systemd and consolekit/upower without the need to recompile anything.
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rhY
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Re: Systemd and LMDE (The future)

Postby rhY » Mon Sep 05, 2016 2:47 pm

Goodbye Mint!

I can't take the instability and nightmare of SystemD. I'll be migrating all my machines, and all 300+ of my client machines to Devuan. My reputation is too valuable to throw away on junk software.

viewtopic.php?f=61&t=214262&p=1211782#p1211782

If you want the whole story on what a nightmare of broken crap SystemD is. No surprise either. Everything Poettering touches goes to s#!+ right away.

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Re: Systemd and LMDE (The future)

Postby Moem » Mon Sep 05, 2016 3:07 pm

rhY wrote:Goodbye Mint!

... you know that Mint 17 is supported until 2019, right? Why so dramatic?
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If your issue is solved, kindly indicate that by editing the first post in the topic, and adding [SOLVED] to the title. Thanks!

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Re: Systemd and LMDE (The future)

Postby rhY » Thu Sep 15, 2016 6:22 pm

Sorry for being dramatic. SUPER frustrated. Literally every OS I use is broken in the latest version due to SystemD.

Mint
Debian
Proxmox

All broken since taking the D. Crashes, Memory overruns, instability, lock ups. On a big variety of hardware, too: laptops, desktops, servers, VMs.

I'm incredibly frustrated by the rigged vote that got systemD into Debian in the first place, and now I have a TON of extra non-billable work to work around that asinine decision.

*FRUSTRATED*


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