So how far off is LMDE 3?

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LMDE 2 support ends on 1-1-2019
frofrout
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Re: Linux Mint Debian Edition 3

Post by frofrout » Fri Jun 29, 2018 4:11 pm

Greetings! I've been planning on installing LMDE 3 when the stable edition is released sometime later this year.

So my questions are:
Does it support SecureBoot?
Does it support UEFI?

Thanks!

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xenopeek
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Re: Linux Mint Debian Edition 3

Post by xenopeek » Fri Jun 29, 2018 4:14 pm

Seeing as Debian 9 supports UEFI boot but not secure boot, I suspect the same will apply to LMDE 3.
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Re: Linux Mint Debian Edition 3

Post by axisofevil » Sun Jul 01, 2018 3:35 pm

What is the difference (at the application level) between LMDE3 (Cinnamon) and Debian [Stretch] (Cinnamon)?
Is it just purely visual or is different software involved?

If a new stable Debian (after Stretch) is released, will a new LMDE follow in a few months or so?

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xenopeek
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Re: Linux Mint Debian Edition 3

Post by xenopeek » Sun Jul 01, 2018 4:34 pm

Debian 9 has Cinnamon 3.2. LMDE 3 has Cinnamon 3.8. LMDE 3 will get new releases of Cinnamon in the future while Debian 9 is, of course, frozen and won't get new releases. Besides that LMDE 3 comes with the Xapps and Mint tools that aren't available on Debian 9. Along with other customization like themes, default programs and configuration, and such. LMDE 3 also comes with Firefox mainstream release instead of using the enterprise (frozen) version of Firefox that Debian uses. The "what's new" link in the announcement will cover in more detail what is new on LMDE 3 once the beta goes up.

LMDE 3 couldn't be released earlier as Cinnamon needed to be reworked to work with the new Gtk3 version of Ubuntu 18.04 (for Linux Mint 19) and Debian 9 (for LMDE 3). What happens after Debian 10 is released as stable? That's too far in the future to tell I think.
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axisofevil
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Re: Linux Mint Debian Edition 3

Post by axisofevil » Mon Jul 02, 2018 3:28 pm

It sounds like once a successful upgrade from LMDE2 -> LMDE3 has taken place (including the systemd thing) then that would be an optimum time to try switching to Debian, assuming that is desirable.

I'm only considering this because LMDE2 is apparently a low priority project and I assume the same will be true for LMDE3.

I don't mind losing some of the polish of the user interface of LMDE2, but I would loathe to lose the current Firefox.
I assume the Mint tools are mainly associated with package updates and some non-free codecs?
I have no interest in "Xapps" - aren't they just programs with compiled-in parts of shared libraries, leading to unnecessary bloat?

Just trying to take a long term view with respect to LMDE...
After all, if LMDE is ever discontinued, I need a safe place to go. :lol: :lol:
I'll wait and see...

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xenopeek
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Re: Linux Mint Debian Edition 3

Post by xenopeek » Mon Jul 02, 2018 6:24 pm

Upgrading from LMDE 2 and then trying to downgrade and remove everything from LMDE 3 that isn't in Debian is likely going to be a major headache. Just install Debian if that is what you want.

The importance of LMDE to Linux Mint was covered in a recent blog post: https://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=3590

The Xapps are a suite of common programs for Cinnamon, MATE and Xfce and any other desktop environment. It has nothing to do with static binaries. They are cross-desktop environment.
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mzsade
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Re: Linux Mint Debian Edition 3

Post by mzsade » Mon Jul 02, 2018 10:27 pm

"It’s never been a priority, it doesn’t need to succeed as a distribution, it’s a challenge which tells us more about ourselves, which we need to face and in which we need to do well, not for you, not for anyone, but for us."

It's an afterthought, our toy, our indulgence, we do not need to keep up with any developments in Debian like other regular Debian based distro developers who diligently do so, you don't matter, you may partake of our offering and marvel at our genius while we play with it in our isolation and at our leisure.
Linux User #481272 Reg: 15th Sept., 2008

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xenopeek
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Re: Linux Mint Debian Edition 3

Post by xenopeek » Tue Jul 03, 2018 2:05 am

LMDE is an interesting project, because it has a small audience but one of the most passionate. It’s also a very important project for us because it challenges us to design our software with more than one development target in mind and because it shows us how far we can go without our best upstream component, Ubuntu. How Minty can we be without Ubuntu? How similar, alike, close to Mint can we make LMDE? How much effort, how many resources, how long would it take for us to make Mint again if Ubuntu was ever to disappear? LMDE answers this for us and this is the key aspect of the LMDE project.
The rest of the quote. That reads different than the bit you picked on for your rant.

All the required development on components to make them work in LMDE 3 with the new Debian base was aligned with the same being needed for Linux Mint 19.
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Re: Linux Mint Debian Edition 3

Post by catweazel » Tue Jul 03, 2018 2:24 am

mzsade wrote:
Mon Jul 02, 2018 10:27 pm
It's an afterthought, our toy, our indulgence, we do not need to keep up with any developments in Debian like other regular Debian based distro developers who diligently do so, you don't matter, you may partake of our offering and marvel at our genius while we play with it in our isolation and at our leisure.
Utter nonsense. Mint has a major commitment to it.
¡uʍop ǝpısdn sı buıɥʇʎɹǝʌǝ os ɐıןɐɹʇsnɐ ɯoɹɟ ɯ,ı

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Re: Linux Mint Debian Edition 3

Post by jelkemeer » Tue Jul 03, 2018 3:19 am

I have installed Debian 9 Cinnamon Live (in Dutch) and added Cindy repos. Now I am running LMDE 3 for the main part and Timeshift is also working fine. Installing was a bit tricky but I managed with Synaptic. Mintupdate did the rest.

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Re: Linux Mint Debian Edition 3

Post by Harfud » Tue Jul 03, 2018 7:53 am

I'd really like to run LMDE3 with Mate desktop.

Will Mate desktop and Mint-Meta-Debian-Mate be in synaptic ?

Or else will the Mate desktop be installable from the LMDE2 repositories ?

I'm not bothered about the version of Mate or the best way of installing it, I'd just like to run Mate.

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Re: Linux Mint Debian Edition 3

Post by xenopeek » Tue Jul 03, 2018 10:23 am

MATE will at least be available from the Debian repository. There's been talk about Linux Mint also providing latest MATE packages, if it is easy enough to automate building them. It's not been made official yet what will be done.
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Harfud
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Re: Linux Mint Debian Edition 3

Post by Harfud » Tue Jul 03, 2018 11:30 am

Thanks for that. I'd also like to retain a Mint look if possible, I've been using Mint for so long now that I've grown familiar with the look.

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Re: Linux Mint Debian Edition 3

Post by KBD47 » Tue Jul 03, 2018 12:48 pm

Mint doesn't really have to have a major focus on it since it is built on Debian Stable. It will have about 4 years LTS support, and Debian 9 will not need much in the way of 'babysitting' because it won't change much, just security updates for the most part. Cinnamon is the big factor Mint adds to it, and you get a much newer version of that DE than comes with DS. Of course it will also have codecs and firmware which you would only get with the Debian 9 Non-Free iso.
I really wish they had kept the MATE desktop as it is pretty sweet on DS. But I know they have limited time and resources.

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Re: Linux Mint Debian Edition 3

Post by KBD47 » Tue Jul 03, 2018 12:50 pm

xenopeek wrote:
Tue Jul 03, 2018 10:23 am
MATE will at least be available from the Debian repository. There's been talk about Linux Mint also providing latest MATE packages, if it is easy enough to automate building them. It's not been made official yet what will be done.
That would be awesome regarding MATE :)

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Re: Linux Mint Debian Edition 3

Post by SilFox » Wed Jul 04, 2018 6:45 am

Of course, that will be all nice if You do not need FDE (full disk encription) because Debian/Devuan have long time trouble with that:
Link
Link
Link(devuan)
So, I suppose that is reason why Clem said : "The LMDE 3 installer will not get support for disk or home directory encryption."
To get long story short, the problem is in dismounting encrypted root partition (I prefer simple dm-crypt, so without LVM, but anyway - no luck) which on shutdown/reboot can't be unmounted, so system forcefuly shutdown/reboot, but without proper dismount, so it has great potential to data loss.
:(
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Re: The Future

Post by mike acker » Thu Jul 05, 2018 7:54 pm

Straight Debian + needed non-free stuff

I've been running straight Debian now for the last year or so. the only thing I really notice is -- some of the KDE related programs don't work as well -- e.g. Kate, Gwenview. as a result -- I'm using slightly different programs more recently -- Shotwell rather than Gwenview. I'm still undecided about this switchover: Gwenview is a very nice program -- but it woks better in LMDE. Kate has some good features -- particularly in joining lines and word wrap.

I have my own utility -- in C -- that does a better job on reflow for text. should I be a member of GIT ?

I've been running OPERA pretty much all the time now. Straight Debian has only Firefox-esr -- which is a bit dated. I loaded the up to date Firefox -- but -- it blows up the X-Window when they do a plug-in update. and.... CLAWS now, instead of T-Bird.

I'm still planning to update the Guest computer to LMDE/3 -- probably in August. It needs to be done in-between semesters at GVSU so my daughter does not run into anything that gives her trouble.

if you watch the dates on traffic on this forum -- you'll note -- it's not real busy.

I've mentioned at other times that in my view MINT should drop the Ubuntu related Dists and stick with the LMDE version. this is, of course just MHO. The wonderful good folks running MINT know a lot more ab out this than I do .
¡Viva la Resistencia!

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Re: Linux Mint Debian Edition 3

Post by [rua] » Sat Jul 07, 2018 4:58 am

As a long-time Mate user I'm also lamenting the loss of it as an official option. While I understand and accept the reasons for offering Cinnamon only, one of the appeals of LMDE to me is its reduced resource use compared to regular Mint; thus, I find Mate is a good companion for it. Cinnamon is just too heavy for my taste.

Regarding the upgrade, should I upgrade via the update manager (a bold move from past experience :lol: ), I expect Cinnamon will be installed and become the default DE at login. Can I expect my Mate will remain? Will I be able to remove Cinnamon safely if it creates conflicts?

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Re: Linux Mint Debian Edition 3

Post by Harfud » Sat Jul 07, 2018 10:24 am

[rua] wrote:
Sat Jul 07, 2018 4:58 am
As a long-time Mate user I'm also lamenting the loss of it as an official option. While I understand and accept the reasons for offering Cinnamon only, one of the appeals of LMDE to me is its reduced resource use compared to regular Mint; thus, I find Mate is a good companion for it. Cinnamon is just too heavy for my taste.

Regarding the upgrade, should I upgrade via the update manager (a bold move from past experience :lol: ), I expect Cinnamon will be installed and become the default DE at login. Can I expect my Mate will remain? Will I be able to remove Cinnamon safely if it creates conflicts?
I'll be doing a fresh install but will definitely be wanting to install Mate in some way, and it would be nice to remove Cinnamon too.

I'm not particularly bothered about using the latest Mate, the LMDE2 version would be fine, I would like the install to look like Mint as I've become accustomed to it.

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Re: Linux Mint Debian Edition 3

Post by mzsade » Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:20 am

https://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=3590
To all those who are unhappy with the decision to make Cinnamon the default and wish the option to install Mate instead wasn't fraught with uncertainty, I refer them to the above blog. This time I will abstain from putting my, some would call prejudiced, interpretation on it as it has been frowned on. Make of it what you will. 😉
Linux User #481272 Reg: 15th Sept., 2008

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