Devuan + LMDE

[linuxcelo]

Just a tricky question...

Does anyone here, in the Linux Mint Community, has the desire to see a LMDE based on the new and shining Devuan, besides me...?

Cheers,
Marcelo.

[all41]

Hi Marcelo,
YES---choice--it's all about choice.
I have the new Devuan iso but haven't devoted time yet.
Personally love this idea

[lmintnewb2]

Not that matters but couldn't possibly disagree more with this. Linux Mint should stop basing off the source ... Debian stable and switch over to some odd new kid on the block and totally unproven Debian based distro ? Errrrrr, would make zero sense and imo be terribly ill-advised on LM HQ's part.

They won't seriously consider ever doing it anyway. So this is just typing practice. People think/complain how dated most the ootb software is in Debian stable itself. Though are endless ways to get even latest software on Debian's stable branch.

Debian's one of the oldest and most revered distro's on the planet ( for MANY good reasons). What about Devuan, they have to wait until Debian stable, goes stable and then engage in whatever finaggling they're doing to it.

Haven't checked though think they finally have a Jessie release out now ( yep, they do) and Debian's about to move on to Stretch. So people want to be a stable release behind the current Debian stable release ? Errrrrrrrr, though eventually perhaps they'll/Devuan maintainers will figure out a way to at least stay sync'ed to latest stable as it comes out (with minimal delay.)

Not to mention the whole basis of Devuan is this systemd free alternative nonsense. People can easily switch init in Debian itself (thus Lmde too). Though clearly systemd is the future init for gnu/Linux and personally actually like it A LOT.

Just 2 cents and some blahblahblah.

[lmintnewb2]

Pointless after-thought:

Though if x-nixer wants to Minterize a Devuan v 1.0 install, by all means. What's stopping anybody ? Personally glad LM HQ decided to keep a Debian based version around regardless.

[linuxcelo]

In the meantime, waiting for the new LMDE 3, and being Linux all about choices, let's start the experiences: a clean Devuan install, attempts to migrate LMDE to Devuan, or even try OpenRC into Debian. All trying to avoid systemd.

I am not a computer expert, just a designer that enjoy and try to use Linux in my daily work. And something I noticed is that, consistentely, distros with systemd present some weird effect of "blurry vision", causing an undesirable eyestrain with continuated use. The same don't happens when using systemd free Linux. Thats just an empirical conclusion, of course, but I tryed inumerous distros in my PCs, and the effect remains, yet using the same monitor, video adapters and machine specifications.

For instance, Manjaro take me to the "Blurry World", but the Manjaro with OpenRC don't. Mint Mate also lead to the "Blurry", but LMDE Mate with sysvinit, don't.

That's fuzzy, and somehow inexplicable by me. Maybe it is a Matrix glitch!

Cheers,
Marcelo.

[Pepi]

Sometimes I think I'm the only one just HAPPY as He|| with LMDE2. I really have no plans to upgrade to 3 even

[chrisuk]

Sometimes I think I'm the only one just HAPPY as He|| with LMDE2. I really have no plans to upgrade to 3 even

You're not the only one; I'm also happy with LMDE2, although there are a few minor annoyances. Trouble is, some of the fixes in LMDE3 will introduce new "minor annoyances" or other bugs... it happens with every new release of every Distro.

As for systemD:

From what I can discern online - there's a comparatively small group of people that hate systemD with a vengeance. Some state their case with apparent authority, and seem to believe that they have good reasons, others follow those for no good reason - or at least, without understanding what systemD is. A clue to how widespread this anti-systemD movement actually is, is in the number of members in the Devuan forum... 211.

Me? I only understand a small part of the argument, and just want a Linux system that works - as it happens, every Distro bar one that I use uses systemD.

[Crewp]

I think the average PC user would not know what systemd is or init for that matter, or would care. You can run LMDE2 in systemd now, and I don't see much difference from init. But I am also looking forward to LMDE3. I can't wait to play with the beta.

[Pepi]

I think the average PC user would not know what systemd is or init for that matter, or would care. You can run LMDE2 in systemd now, and I don't see much difference from init. But I am also looking forward to LMDE3. I can't wait to play with the beta.

"Play" is the key word I too will download and play with it but my trusty LMDE2 will be my main OS for now

[Fred Barclay]

I spent some time experimenting with this a while ago.

I had a Betsy install I migrated over to Devuan Jessie... it still ran like a champ (IIRC - it's been a while). Thing is, Betsy doesn't use systemd as the init system by default anyways, so it wasn't so drastic a change.
I think the Devuan guys used to have a .deb you could install and it would change your repositories automatically.

I also tried taking a Devuan install, adding Betsy's repos, and upgrading/installing packages. It worked, but it wasn't quite as easy to do.

More ambitiously, I tried to edit an iso of Betsy to change repos to Devuan's, make the appropriate changes, and rebuild the iso. That was an absolute flop... couldn't ever get the isos to rebuild properly. I suspect (though I haven't tried) that debroot would handle this nicely.
(Note: I'm not the author of debroot... I just happened to fork it some time before the original author took his repo down. As far as I know my repo is the only surviving source code on the Internet.
Me being me, I'm working on a Python 3 fork since I don't speak Perl.)

[linuxcelo]

Now I have tested a while with Devuan. It appears promising for the future, but now there are some glitches. Can't install Cinnamon properly, due the lack of Systemd.

Anyway, it's a venerable iniciative for the Linux Community. Diversity is a key element for evolution!

[lmintnewb2]

Pretty much agree with some of the things Chrisuk said, that being that the anti-systemd fudinistas are in the minority and agree with Crewp too. Think even relatively experienced desktop nixers have very little need to know nor care about the init. As long as it boots up the system, launches the appropriate services this and that, then majority could care less which piece of software is handling the process. In the case of systemd it's supposed to have the added advantage of monitoring those services and relaunching any that fail.

Systemd is pretty dang powerful as to what all it can do. Seems a virtually endless expansion of features for it. Admit that sometimes the scope involved kinda gives me the creeps but the people who developed it are dang good developers and certainly aren't trying to destroy gnu/Linux.

@Devuan ... honestly think it's a joke and foolish overall. Think some person(s) seized on the change of default init situation and are trying to cash in on it for their claim to fame. Started to try to ascertain who they even are but simple lack of curiosity got the better of me. Could be 3-4 14yr olds for all anyone really knows about them. I don't really care who's behind Devuan. Though know they must certainly pale in comparison to the people behind Debian, in terms of knowledge, skills and experience. Debian's been developing and maintaining the distro for over 20 years. Common sense tells me some new people aren't just going to come along and realistically be capable of matching them.

Personally dislike and distrust Devuan, shrugs. Though if people want to use it that's their choice and all I can do is wish them well.

[Fred Barclay]

I just think Devuan is fun. I couldn't care less about the init system, personally.

[lmintnewb2]

^+1 you too Fred, me either fellow nixer. When boot up my cheapy laptop and select an OS, just want it to boot up and not crash on me. If it boots and shuts down a bit faster due to things being run in parallel, as systemd is supposed to, then great. If something else is getting the operating system up and running stable, also great.

[AndreKiepe]

This a great idea. I have tinkered with openRC (Manjaro) and I am very happy with it. It's way better than systemD.
I like Linux Mint very much and I would be happy to stay with it. OpenRC or Devuan may be the right solution.
Good luck.