Removing openssh-client: many other packages installed ??

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Ottavio
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Removing openssh-client: many other packages installed ??

Post by Ottavio » Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:52 am

Hi,

I'm not new to Debian-esque quirkiness, but this is spectacular.

I want to remove openssh-client and make room for the openssh installed trough pkgsrc. Disk space is not an issue. I just want to have a clean installation.

So:

Code: Select all

$ sudo apt-get remove openssh-client 
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree       
Reading state information... Done
The following additional packages will be installed:
  gcc-6-base:i386 libbsd0:i386 libc6:i386 libcomerr2:i386 libedit2:i386
  libgcc1:i386 libgssapi-krb5-2:i386 libk5crypto3:i386 libkeyutils1:i386
  libkrb5-3:i386 libkrb5support0:i386 libncurses5:i386 libpcre3:i386
  libselinux1:i386 libssl1.0.2:i386 libtinfo5:i386 openssh-client:i386
  openssh-server openssh-sftp-server ssh zlib1g:i386
Suggested packages:
  glibc-doc:i386 locales:i386 krb5-doc:i386 krb5-user:i386 keychain:i386
  libpam-ssh:i386 monkeysphere:i386 ssh-askpass:i386 molly-guard monkeysphere
  rssh
Recommended packages:
  libgpm2:i386 xauth:i386
The following packages will be REMOVED:
  openssh-client
The following NEW packages will be installed:
  gcc-6-base:i386 libbsd0:i386 libc6:i386 libcomerr2:i386 libedit2:i386
  libgcc1:i386 libgssapi-krb5-2:i386 libk5crypto3:i386 libkeyutils1:i386
  libkrb5-3:i386 libkrb5support0:i386 libncurses5:i386 libpcre3:i386
  libselinux1:i386 libssl1.0.2:i386 libtinfo5:i386 openssh-client:i386
  openssh-server openssh-sftp-server ssh zlib1g:i386
0 upgraded, 21 newly installed, 1 to remove and 127 not upgraded.
Need to get 7,111 kB of archives.
After this operation, 19.7 MB of additional disk space will be used.
Do you want to continue? [Y/n] 
My question is: how's that even possible? In practice, removing one single package will have to install many more. And they are all :i386. And I haven't even enabled multiarch!

phil995511
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Re: Removing openssh-client: many other packages installed ??

Post by phil995511 » Fri Sep 06, 2019 4:09 am

Code: Select all

sudo apt update && apt dist-upgrade

Code: Select all

sudo apt remove openssh-client

Code: Select all

sudo apt autoclean && apt autoremove
You have 127 packets not upgraded... Firts update & upgrade your system...
Last edited by phil995511 on Fri Sep 06, 2019 4:18 am, edited 2 times in total.
Linux Mint 19.2 Cinnamon 64 Bits on Dell XPS 9570 (i7-8750H) laptop / Debian 10 Buster Cinnamon 64 Bits on customized workstation (i7-5960X @ 3.8 Ghz) / Raspbian 10 Buster on Raspberry Pi 4

Ottavio
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Re: Removing openssh-client: many other packages installed ??

Post by Ottavio » Fri Sep 06, 2019 6:18 am

phil995511 wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 4:09 am

Code: Select all

sudo apt update && apt dist-upgrade

Code: Select all

sudo apt remove openssh-client

Code: Select all

sudo apt autoclean && apt autoremove
You have 127 packets not upgraded... Firts update & upgrade your system...
So, in order to get rid of one package, I have to upgrade 127 packages first. This is apt-madness!

phil995511
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Re: Removing openssh-client: many other packages installed ??

Post by phil995511 » Fri Sep 06, 2019 7:28 am

Listen, the administration of a Linux PC requires regular updates, which seems to have not been the case on your machine.

From there, it is waiting for 21 updates of dependancy packages related to OpenSSH, that you would like to uninstall, but which is not up-to-date according to the protocol of the Linux Debian softs installer.

106 other packages must also be updated to ensure good stability/security of your system. You can not not do it, if you want everything to work properly, it should have been updated done a long time ago... You must have about one year of unrealized updates ;(

You must comply with established protocols for your system to work properly.

Best regards.
Last edited by phil995511 on Fri Sep 06, 2019 7:54 am, edited 2 times in total.
Linux Mint 19.2 Cinnamon 64 Bits on Dell XPS 9570 (i7-8750H) laptop / Debian 10 Buster Cinnamon 64 Bits on customized workstation (i7-5960X @ 3.8 Ghz) / Raspbian 10 Buster on Raspberry Pi 4

phil995511
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Re: Removing openssh-client: many other packages installed ??

Post by phil995511 » Fri Sep 06, 2019 7:38 am

PS

Then I advise you to go to "Update Manager" => "Edition" => "Preferences" => "Automation" and activate automatic updates.
Linux Mint 19.2 Cinnamon 64 Bits on Dell XPS 9570 (i7-8750H) laptop / Debian 10 Buster Cinnamon 64 Bits on customized workstation (i7-5960X @ 3.8 Ghz) / Raspbian 10 Buster on Raspberry Pi 4

Ottavio
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Re: Removing openssh-client: many other packages installed ??

Post by Ottavio » Fri Sep 06, 2019 8:15 am

phil995511 wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 7:28 am
Listen, the administration of a Linux PC requires regular updates, which seems to have not been the case on your machine.
Fine, but I take responsibility for my own machine and I want to be free to decide whether to update the system or not, which I indeed did less than a month ago, so I don't know where you get:
phil995511 wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 7:28 am
You must have about one year of unrealized updates ;(
this one year from
phil995511 wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 7:38 am
Then I advise you to go to "Update Manager" => "Edition" => "Preferences" => "Automation" and activate automatic updates.
I uninstalled the update manager first thing when I installed LMDE 3, as I'd rather use the command line.

Still, if you look at the cli dump I posted earlier, apt-get wants me to install some *:386 packages. I don't know how these 32-bit packages are any relevant to a system like mine, where I didn't even enable multiarch:

Code: Select all

$ dpkg --print-architecture
amd64
There is clearly something borked in the way apt-get determines how packages are removed and purged.

phil995511
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Re: Removing openssh-client: many other packages installed ??

Post by phil995511 » Fri Sep 06, 2019 8:25 am

The version of Debian that LMDE 3 uses is the stable version, there is no risk of breaking the system by running updates to the packages.

If you do not want to follow the security protocols of Debian, you will be faced with complications that you will have to solve alone.

32-bit architecture may be necessary in some situations on a 64 Bits OS to ensure compatibility.

I wish you good luck in your deliberate concern in view of the fact that you refuse to follow the Debian security policy.

Regards.
Linux Mint 19.2 Cinnamon 64 Bits on Dell XPS 9570 (i7-8750H) laptop / Debian 10 Buster Cinnamon 64 Bits on customized workstation (i7-5960X @ 3.8 Ghz) / Raspbian 10 Buster on Raspberry Pi 4

Ottavio
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Re: Removing openssh-client: many other packages installed ??

Post by Ottavio » Fri Sep 06, 2019 9:39 am

phil995511 wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 8:25 am
The version of Debian that LMDE 3 uses is the stable version, there is no risk of breaking the system by running updates to the packages.

If you do not want to follow the security protocols of Debian, you will be faced with complications that you will have to solve alone.

32-bit architecture may be necessary in some situations on a 64 Bits OS to ensure compatibility.

I wish you good luck in your deliberate concern in view of the fact that you refuse to follow the Debian security policy.

Regards.
Actually, it's the oldstable now.

Yet, I haven't been pointed out to the specific reason the inclusion of all these packages is necessary just to delete one single package.

We're not talking of systemd or dbus, this is just openssh-client.

Ottavio
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Re: Removing openssh-client: many other packages installed ??

Post by Ottavio » Fri Sep 06, 2019 12:21 pm

lexqbit wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 11:07 am
I my opinion not installing updates is very risky, Linux Mint has updates daily sometimes, usually once per week. I agree If you ignore the Debian security policy you put your system at great risk, I manually update 7 PCs on mint it takes less the 5-10 min per day, less then having to reinstall it due to security risk or problem.
You can if you like update via the apt terminal, use a bash script or setup automatic updates, you have a lot of good options to choose how to install updates.
Keeping a system updated and secure is an important topic on its own, but it's quite irrelevant to this particular circumstance.

How come one has to be forced to keep their system updated if all they want is to remove or purge a single, non critical package?

What apt/apt-get should do (and used to do) is to calculate dependencies, and that should be it.

It has now grown to a monster that patronizes and bullies the user into having all the updates.

Of course, I could tweak the dependencies myself and put packages on hold, but what's the point?

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