Backported Kernel

[appye]

Hello, I apologize if this has been answered before. I did search!

I will be receiving a brand new laptop in about a week or so and I intend on running LMDE4 on it. Since the laptop is so new (Intel iris xe, probably some newfangled wifi card, etc), I may need a newer kernel. There are plenty of walkthroughs around about how to install a backported kernel, but they all seem to specify installing a specific kernel version. My concern is that if I install a specific version, I will no longer get security updates to that kernel. Is that a correct assumption? I was thinking I can just install "linux-image-amd64" from backports (apt install linux-image-amd64 -t buster-backports) which will get me the latest and greatest from that repository, but what future security updates? There is no security support (from the debian-security team) for backports, so I would likely want to keep upgrading the kernel, reassessing when LMDE5 (hopefully) comes out. When I update my laptop in the future, (apt full-upgrade or using mintupdate) is that sufficient to pull down available newer kernels from backports, or would I have to also remember to install the latest backports kernel as well?

I hope that all makes sense. This is my first time using backports.

[Aztaroth]

Your guess is wrong.
LMDE4 is shipped with a 4.19 kernel. To perform the install, your hardware must accept this kernel and very recent ones generally don't.
So either you're lucky and your "brand new laptop" accepts the install (and you may - but not must - upgrade your kernel), or it doesn't and you'll have to switch to another 'flavour' of Mint (20.x) with possible need of an Edge version specially designed for very recent hardware (see https://linuxmint-user-guide.readthedoc ... /edge.html) or another distro.
If you're an LMDE4 aficionado (like me ), you'll have to wait LMDE5 to get back to your pet distro.

[Moonstone Man]

This is my first time using backports.

As Aztaroth has already pointed out, it's highly likely not to work. For certain the kernel is too old. If you must have a Debian distro then MX Linux might be worth looking at. It comes with kernel 5.10 and is based on bullseye.

[jwiz]

Since kernel 5.10 is the standard LTS kernel of Debian 11 (aka. Bullseye), I would suppose that backports of that kernel to the Debian 10 repo will be quite frequent, so personally I would give that a try.

[appye]

So the installer will fail then? Will the installer media even boot? I had not considered that. Bummer.

I had thought it might just be a case of having non accelerated graphics, no sound or wifi, etc., then upgrading to the 5.10 kernel from backports. After my first post I successfully managed to upgrade an older laptop as such. I also backported firmware and kernel headers, figuring those might be needed as well. The latter was needed for virtualbox.

The new machine is an inspiron 7706:
https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-la ... 27706emqyh

[Aztaroth]

Nobody can be blamed for a try. So plug your LMDE4 in your new computer and see. Miracles happen sometimes. If it boots, you're on the rails.
Just for the record, I'm using 5.11.15 kernel on all my machines, but they all accepted an installation with 4.19. Who knows, you may be a lucky guy too.

[appye]

I if it doesn't work, it will be vanilla debian bullseye for now I guess.

So how are future updates handled when installing packages from backports? Do I need to manually update things that are installed from there or does a regular apt (full-)upgrade handle that?

[Moonstone Man]

I never really had my upgrade question answered though.

That's because you're asking a highly specific Debian backports question, not a LMDE question. Given that this forum is for Linux Mint and LMDE, not Debian, it should be no surprise that you haven't got a definitive answer.

[appye]

Once again, you have demonstrated your vast intelligence. Gotta love computer forums. Thanks for the reminder.

[jwiz]

If you have the linux-image-amd64 meta package installed, then an apt full-upgrade will pull the latest kernel from the backports repo too.

P.S.:
besides using the kernel image from the backport repo you should also upgrade to the latest firmware-linux and firmware-linux-nonfree packages there.

[appye]

If you have the linux-image-amd64 meta package installed, then an apt full-upgrade will pull the latest kernel from the backports repo too.

P.S.:
besides using the kernel image from the backport repo you should also upgrade to the latest firmware-linux and firmware-linux-nonfree packages there.

Kinda figured that. It is my understanding that the image won't even boot for me to do an install though. It seems Bullseye is just about stable now though, so if LMDE4 (probably) doesn't work, I will probably just approximate it using vanilla Debian, which is where I started before looking into LMDE. What brought me over was PIX and Hypnotix of all things. I can probably manage a surgical install of these on Bullseye.

Thanks for answering my question!

[jwiz]

I'll just wait and see if LMDE moves to Bullseye in any forseable future, which I think it will but I sure don't know when.
Otherwise I'll migrate back to Debian.

[Aztaroth]

Maybe both of you (appye and jwiz) should follow this thread
viewtopic.php?f=46&t=353233
and see if the app they're speaking of (Foxclone) can help you by installing LMDE4 on a hardware which supports it, then upgrade to a 5.10 or 5.11 kernel (5.12 and over not possible without contortions because native libc6 is too old) and clone it to your new hardware.
Just a tip for what it's worth : my pearl of a kernel is 5.11.15 just running fine on all my machines. However, the default installation with 4.19 already worked and the kernel upgrade was just for better performance and security, so I didn't have to use Foxclone.
Of course, don't install proprietary drivers until the operation is successful and 'timeshifted'. Proprietary drivers (I never use them) and kernel upgrades don't really match well.

[jwiz]

Currently I'm fine with my 9th gen intel system and LMDE 4 with a custom-built 5.10 kernel.
WIll probably switch to AMD Ryzen 5000 mobile series machine once the Zen 3 systems become available and then LMDE 4/Debian 10 will have to go.
I just hope that LMDE 5 becomes an option by then.

[appye]

Maybe both of you (appye and jwiz) should follow this thread
viewtopic.php?f=46&t=353233
and see if the app they're speaking of (Foxclone) can help you by installing LMDE4 on a hardware which supports it, then upgrade to a 5.10 or 5.11 kernel (5.12 and over not possible without contortions because native libc6 is too old) and clone it to your new hardware.
Just a tip for what it's worth : my pearl of a kernel is 5.11.15 just running fine on all my machines. However, the default installation with 4.19 already worked and the kernel upgrade was just for better performance and security, so I didn't have to use Foxclone.
Of course, don't install proprietary drivers until the operation is successful and 'timeshifted'. Proprietary drivers (I never use them) and kernel upgrades don't really match well.

I had been contemplating an approach like this, creating an image. I may do this or just go with Bullseye. Laptop should arrive Friday.

[Pjotr]

The easy way out would be, to simply install the Edge iso of the main Linux Mint 20.2. Because that particular iso contains the 5.11.x kernel by default.

You can get it here:
http://mirror.cs.jmu.edu/pub/linuxmint/ ... t-edge.iso

The only drawback for you, might be that it's main Mint and not LMDE. Furthermore, the Edge iso is only available with the Cinnamon desktop environment.

[axisofevil]

If Mint was installed, you would get a lot of Ubuntu packages.
Which would mess things up.

Try booting from a standard LMDE4 USB - if it works then you can install LMDE4 and then upgrade to a backport.
inxi -r will show your repositories;

Mine are currently:-

Code: Select all

deb https://mirrors.ukfast.co.uk/sites/linuxmint.com/packages debbie main upstream import backport
deb http://free.hands.com/debian/ buster main contrib non-free
deb http://free.hands.com/debian/ buster-updates main contrib non-free
deb http://security.debian.org/ buster/updates main contrib non-free
deb http://free.hands.com/debian/ buster-backports main contrib non-free

Then, after installing all outstanding updates - there should be a lot!

sudo apt install -t buster-backports linux-image-amd64 linux-headers-amd64 firmware-linux firmware-linux-nonfree

If you are saddled with rubbish wifi, you will additionally need to do:-
sudo apt install -t buster-backports firmware-brcm80211 broadcom-sta-dkms

To list all installed backports:-
aptitude search "?narrow(~i, ~Abackports)"

You may occasionally get an a few additional backports via the normal LMDE updater.
You should still get high impact kernel updates.

You can test all this in a VM.

[appye]

The easy way out would be, to simply install the Edge iso of the main Linux Mint 20.2. Because that particular iso contains the 5.11.x kernel by default.

You can get it here:
http://mirror.cs.jmu.edu/pub/linuxmint/ ... t-edge.iso

The only drawback for you, might be that it's main Mint and not LMDE. Furthermore, the Edge iso is only available with the Cinnamon desktop environment.

I more or less ended up doing that. I installed with the regular 20.2 iso (I did not know about the edge iso) and upgraded the kernel from there. Are there any disadvantages to having gone that route, such as leftover cruft? I removed the old kernels using the upgrade manager software, and afterwards apt autoremove --purge did not turn up anything. It all seems to be working fine ...

I may go for bullseye at some point after release. I am not sure about some of the Ubuntu level quirks. Having to manually enable hibernation is a bit weird, especially since the 20.2 iso produces a system with power management dropdowns that don't have anything in there by default. I then had to futz around with grub configurations a bit more than I am used to to shorten the persistent 30 second countdown. I also don't quite understand why Mint devs (LMDE has the same behavior) did the wrapper thing with apt. It seems crippled to me, especially the search function. I guess I've just gotten used to Debian over the years and am dubious. Still I prefer the native /usr/bin apt behavior. Perhaps I'll wait for 11.1.

[Pjotr]

The easy way out would be, to simply install the Edge iso of the main Linux Mint 20.2. Because that particular iso contains the 5.11.x kernel by default.

You can get it here:
http://mirror.cs.jmu.edu/pub/linuxmint/ ... t-edge.iso

The only drawback for you, might be that it's main Mint and not LMDE. Furthermore, the Edge iso is only available with the Cinnamon desktop environment.

I more or less ended up doing that. I installed with the regular 20.2 iso (I did not know about the edge iso) and upgraded the kernel from there. Are there any disadvantages to having gone that route, such as leftover cruft?

No cruft to speak of, no disadvantages. You're fine.

[appye]

Thanks!