LMDE 4

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gm10
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Re: LMDE 4

Post by gm10 » Tue Aug 27, 2019 8:39 am

phil995511 wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 7:57 am
You know if there is a directory for Debian 10 Buster so obtain to the latest version of Cinnamon (v. 4.2.3) ??
Can't you just add the LMDE3 Cindy repos and pull it from there?
Tune up your LM 19.x: ppa:gm10/linuxmint-tools

phil995511
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Re: LMDE 4

Post by phil995511 » Tue Aug 27, 2019 8:48 am

gm10 wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 8:39 am
phil995511 wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 7:57 am
You know if there is a directory for Debian 10 Buster so obtain to the latest version of Cinnamon (v. 4.2.3) ??
Can't you just add the LMDE3 Cindy repos and pull it from there?
I can try it, but that request a lot time to test and integrate the necessary dependencies without guarantee of optimal results ... I'd rather easy integration guaranteed to be functional, if not I think staying version 3.8 Cinnamon for the moment, I dont have realy time for this...
Linux Mint 19.2 Cinnamon 64 Bits on Dell XPS 9570 (i7-8750H) laptop / Debian 10 Buster Cinnamon 64 Bits on customized workstation (i7-5960X @ 3.8 Ghz) / Raspbian 10 Buster on Raspberry Pi 4

gm10
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Re: LMDE 4

Post by gm10 » Tue Aug 27, 2019 8:51 am

Assuming Cinnamon is packaged properly it should pull in the required dependencies on its own. Take a Timeshift snapshot first for an easy-rollback.
Tune up your LM 19.x: ppa:gm10/linuxmint-tools

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Re: LMDE 4

Post by Nuts2u » Tue Aug 27, 2019 1:48 pm

I do not understand why poster Phil is in such a rush to move to Debian Buster. LMDE 3 is rock soild, what we are testing is the feasibility of updating LMDE3, then changing the repo's from Stretch to Buster.

If Phil wants a true rolling Linux release take a look at Sparky Linux....I followed that mainters directions and my copy of Sparky Linux (running in a vm) is now a true Buster rolling release. No need to ever reinstall always updated with the latest....and it works.....
Silence is golden. Duct tape is silver. Welcome to Hell. Here's your copy of Windows.

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ChrisMW
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Re: LMDE 4

Post by ChrisMW » Tue Aug 27, 2019 3:22 pm

Well my rush is that oldstable quickly falls behind in its ability to take one some software. For instance, I need a more modern QT5, present in Buster, not Stretch.

Anyways, the search for the mintsources fix came from here: https://github.com/twisted/twisted/pull/966 Turns out, if you replace async with _async, mintsources works, at least it is now, sort of. But as before with this laptop, the resolving is not quite working. You also need to buster as the base in /usr/share/mintsources/cindy/mintsources.conf to stop it rewriting stretch into the apt sources

It seems to be struggling to find the repos, I see resolving errors. Not quite sure, but this laptop has had this problem before, so not 100% it is related to the experiment....

Anyway, progress, but not there yet.....

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Re: LMDE 4

Post by gm10 » Tue Aug 27, 2019 3:29 pm

ChrisMW wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 3:22 pm
Anyways, the search for the mintsources fix came from here: https://github.com/twisted/twisted/pull/966 Turns out, if you replace async with _async, mintsources works, at least it is now, sort of. But as before with this laptop, the resolving is not quite working. You also need to buster as the base in /usr/share/mintsources/cindy/mintsources.conf to stop it rewriting stretch into the apt sources
Oh, I already mentioned both things to you above but I suppose it wasn't very clear - I didn't expect you to actually patch the source though, I was thinking you'd just pull Ubuntu's updated version, they patched aptdaemon for that already, of course, for they base on Debian testing.
Tune up your LM 19.x: ppa:gm10/linuxmint-tools

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Re: LMDE 4

Post by ChrisMW » Tue Aug 27, 2019 5:16 pm

As I said, not a python person. I wanted to stay away from an Ubuntu package. Fixing the source was actually quite easy, once I knew how I might patch. Remembering you told me something about async, that's what connected the dots. It appears to be related to python 3.5 vs. 3.7. I suppose another way would be to force the script to stick to 3.5, which would be probably more compatible. I can try and see if that's an option.

But so far, so good. Running LMDE 3 on top of Buster seems quite doable. But because of this I will test a little more before committing my main machine.

As I wasn't familiar with these programs, I just tried what I normally, just google it, or in my case, duckduckgo it. I read something about async and replacing it with _async. I then remember you mentioning it, so let's see how many replacements, not that many and voila, the program popped up. I also found that the program does handle both LMDE and Mint proper, so in that case, I might just download your version and use that. From what I understand, if I can get the first one to use 3.5, the rest will follow.

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Re: LMDE 4

Post by ChrisMW » Tue Aug 27, 2019 5:38 pm

Well. forcing 3.5 wasn't very successful. It complains about pycurl not being there. So it appears that some bits moved to 3.7.

Trying to install the Ubuntu version yielded a gdebi error, saying it would break an existing dependency with the aptdaemon package. I really don't want to start pulling package after package, so all in all I think the source fix was the easiest route to getting it to run. So for now, just going to check see if the rest seems fine. So far it seems quite good...

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Re: LMDE 4

Post by gm10 » Tue Aug 27, 2019 5:56 pm

ChrisMW wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 5:16 pm
It appears to be related to python 3.5 vs. 3.7. I suppose another way would be to force the script to stick to 3.5, which would be probably more compatible.
Yes, async is a keyword in python 3.7, but the old aptdaemon and mintsources code was using it as a function name. Don't try going back to 3.5 though - buster defaults to 3.7, you'll likely create a mess trying to mix the old version on it.
ChrisMW wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 5:16 pm
I might just download your version and use that. From what I understand, if I can get the first one to use 3.5, the rest will follow.
My versions don't support 3.5, they need 3.6 or higher. And feel free to use them, but I didn't develop them with LMDE in mind, either, so don't expect great things I guess. LMDE is the afterthought of Mint-development, with a lot of the functionality being disabled, unfortunately. Since I'm not using LMDE and only distribute via an Ubuntu PPA my forks of the tools are no exception. But if you do end up using them and find LMDE-specific problems do let me know and I can fix those.
ChrisMW wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 5:38 pm
Trying to install the Ubuntu version yielded a gdebi error, saying it would break an existing dependency with the aptdaemon package. I really don't want to start pulling package after package, so all in all I think the source fix was the easiest route to getting it to run.
If you were going with the Ubuntu version, you'd want to download and install all of the packages built from the aptdaemon source package in one go:

Code: Select all

$ apt showsrc aptdaemon
[...]
Package-List:
 aptdaemon deb admin extra arch=all
 aptdaemon-data deb admin extra arch=all
 python-aptdaemon deb python extra arch=all
 python-aptdaemon.gtk3widgets deb python extra arch=all
 python3-aptdaemon deb python extra arch=all
 python3-aptdaemon.gtk3widgets deb python extra arch=all
 python3-aptdaemon.test deb python extra arch=all
But as long as your patch works, good enough for now.
Tune up your LM 19.x: ppa:gm10/linuxmint-tools

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Re: LMDE 4

Post by phil995511 » Wed Aug 28, 2019 6:29 am

Nuts2u wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 1:48 pm
I do not understand why poster Phil is in such a rush to move to Debian Buster. LMDE 3 is rock soild, what we are testing is the feasibility of updating LMDE3, then changing the repo's from Stretch to Buster.

If Phil wants a true rolling Linux release take a look at Sparky Linux....I followed that mainters directions and my copy of Sparky Linux (running in a vm) is now a true Buster rolling release. No need to ever reinstall always updated with the latest....and it works.....
Hello, I use Chromium as the main browser.

Under Stretch it is blocked in version 73, and it has already become incompatible with some websites when I associate it with uBlock Orrigin ;( On futur it will only receive security updates under Stretch ans LMDE 3.

https://packages.debian.org/fr/chromium

Sparkylinux looks cool, I did not know this OS, but the semi-rolling version is based on Debian testing which can potentially dysfunction. I really like Debian, it suits me well.

These last 20 years I used on the medium-long term : Mandrake (Mandriva), Open Suse, Mint 19.x, Mint LMDE 3. I've also tested other distributions like Solaris by Sun, FreeBSD, Red Hat, Ubuntu, Scientific Linux, etc.

Debian and LMDE are my favorites operating system.

I was waiting for LMDE 4 a quick exit to the market, not a year later as was the case of LMDE 3 which was released on 31.08.2018, while Debian Stretch was released on 17-06-2017. I would like an automatic graphics driver installer like Ubuntu and Mint 19.x for proprietary cards (Nvidia / AMD), because on laptops has 2 graphics cards it is complicated to make everything work well, this takes lots of time. Cinnamon is cool but I would also like the Mint team to develop system tools, not just graphic optimizations. All functional progress I have been hoping for for years comes mainly from Debian, On futur I hope that Mint becomes more creative from this point of view. Offering an ISO in DVD format with all the installable desktops (Cinnamon, Mate, etc.) next to each other, as Debian does and 99% of the Linux-based OS, would also be a progress from my point of view.

I will also like a version of Mint for Raspberry Pi 4.

Best regards.


PS

And if the Mint Team was more attentive to the demands and needs of their users, it would be good for everyone :) Do polls on user expectations, statisques on installed softs to integrate them into the distribution, etc, would be nice ...
Linux Mint 19.2 Cinnamon 64 Bits on Dell XPS 9570 (i7-8750H) laptop / Debian 10 Buster Cinnamon 64 Bits on customized workstation (i7-5960X @ 3.8 Ghz) / Raspbian 10 Buster on Raspberry Pi 4

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Re: LMDE 4

Post by roncraig » Wed Aug 28, 2019 8:01 pm

I hear ya... still waiting on LMDE 4 based on Buster also. Bet I'll be one of the first people to install and run it :)
OS: Linux Mint 19.2 Tina
Kernel: 4.15.0-58-generic x86_64
DE: Cinnamon 4.2.3
Theme: Mint-Y-Dark
CPU: Intel i7-6700K (8) @ 4.200GHz
GPU: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 980 Ti
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darknetmatrix
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Re: LMDE 4

Post by darknetmatrix » Thu Aug 29, 2019 2:55 am

I think it's going to be a christmas present
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Re: LMDE 4

Post by darknetmatrix » Sun Sep 01, 2019 2:28 am

It would be nice if we could get some more information about the development of LMDE4 or when they expect to start building it.
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Re: LMDE 4

Post by Gruppo Sportivo » Sun Sep 01, 2019 3:06 am

darknetmatrix wrote:
Sun Sep 01, 2019 2:28 am
It would be nice if we could get some more information about the development of LMDE4.
Some development information about LMDE 4 can be viewed,it's a bit scanty but there is a step-by-step plan
https://github.com/linuxmint/Roadmap
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Re: LMDE 4

Post by darknetmatrix » Tue Sep 03, 2019 10:07 pm

After reading the montly news from august, it seems LMDE4 will come after LM 19.3 at the earliest.
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Re: LMDE 4

Post by KBD47 » Tue Sep 03, 2019 10:34 pm

LMDE 3 was released August 2018. I wouldn't expect LMDE 4 any time soon. LMDE 3 still has almost 3 years support via Debian LTS for Stretch.

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Re: LMDE 4

Post by gene0915 » Fri Sep 13, 2019 2:10 pm

I wanted to chime in on things.......... as a long time (2? 3? years) Mint user, I recently toyed with the idea of moving my Plex/media/storage server from Mint 19.2 to Debian 10 stable. Figured, since Mint is based off Ubuntu which is based off Debian..... why not just go straight to the source and switch to plain Debian? Well, for those contemplating such a move, DON'T DO IT!

Here are some problems I ran into with Debian 10 stable (fully updated) over the last few weeks of playing around with it: (note, some of these might be user error or me just not understanding Debian properly AND, I installed Plex, Emby, Sonarr, NZBGet and enabled Samba and NFS sharing during my testing so maybe one of those packages damaged Debian 10 somehow?!)

1) On a fresh install, FireFox 60 ESR crashed. A lot. I don't think I could surf around the web for more than 15 minutes without FF producing a segfault.

2) The command 'dmesg' is locked behind elevated access (needed to use: sudo dmesg). Over the years, I've tried lots and lots and lots of distros. Debian is the only one I encountered that dmesg didn't work from my normal account.

3) Reboot, mdadm and other commands needed to have the path added (reboot by itself didn't work. I needed to enter: /usr/sbin/reboot (forget the exact path but I hope you understand). Again, only distro where I needed to use full paths to have it carry out those commands.

4) I needed to jump through some hoops to get my account added to the sudoers file to carry out commands that needed elevated access. I had to use the Debian wiki and another site to finally piece it all together before I got it working. Again, first distro that made me do that. Every other distro, after Linux was installed, a simple "sudo blah" and typing in my password worked. Maybe this is a failure/feature of the Debian 10 installer??!

5) I can't seem to install any .deb file via the GUI. I always have to drop to the terminal and do: dpkg -i name of debian file.deb and if there are any dependencies that the package I'm trying to install need, there's like a 10% chance they'll get installed. The dpkg will attempt to install the .deb file, it will fail because it can't find a dependency and I'll try to install something else and get errors that I need to run apt install -f (at least I think that was the command) to correct things. Doing that, apt will now install the dependency that the first .deb file I tried installing needed and then proceed to set everything up and all is well.



So what does that all have to do with LMDE 4? In my opinion, I really think the Mint devs need to dump using Ubuntu as their base and put all efforts into LMDE and more accurately, making Debian suck less. I mean, I love the stability that Debian brings to the table but out of the gate, their distro lacks certain ...... refinements. Refinements that we've all grown accustomed to and those refinements is what makes Mint stand head and shoulders above other distros.

Have 3 versions of LMDE 4. One based on Debian stable, one based on testing and one based on unstable and of course, all with their different desktops. Or, just maintain LMDE 4 (based on stable) but either way, I'd get away from relying on Ubuntu. I mean, at this point, why do you need them, for their repositories?

In closing, keep up the great work!

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Re: LMDE 4

Post by KBD47 » Fri Sep 13, 2019 3:50 pm

I use MX Linux as my Plex server. It is included in MX package manager. I had to boot into the systemd kernel instead of the sysVinit kernel to keep it working correctly.
I would just use Windows or Main Mint for Plex at this point though. Debian is a PITA on occasion with Plex and not worth the aggravation overall.

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Re: LMDE 4

Post by ChrisMW » Fri Sep 13, 2019 6:17 pm

I have been bitten a couple of times with Ubuntu's delta over Debian, which is why I like LMDE, it is, especially with 3, a lot of Debian with just the right amount of sugar on top.

Meanwhile, I bit the bullet and decided to convert my main laptop to be LMDE 3 based on Buster, not stretch. It was slightly harder than the other 2, but as I'm typing this, I am running LMDE 3 on top of buster.

The first apt-get update, upgrade and dist-upgrade went smoothly. Then the swap over to buster, and update. Fine. Upgrade, not so fine. I got an error on some lib. Using Aptitude why <libname> I determined is was a dependency of libwine:i386, noted that and deleted the library's installation. I then ran into my /boot not being big enough. I then ran into a conflict with flightgear. Removed that one as well. Finally apt-get upgrade (on Buster) completed and dist-upgrade went well actually. Then I reinstalled both libwine and flightgear and rebooted. The desktop came up, tested wine was working, which it wasn't (which meant a synaptic run of reinstalls to fix).

Most of my time was spent fixing virtualbox. My laptop does an UEFI boot, but not a secure boot. Still, virtualbox would not work, the modprobe of the driver failed. Some searching revealed it was the combination of binutil and kernel. The advice there was to move to the latest kernel. So now I'm on kernel 5.2 and virtualbox has also come back to life.

So whilst it was slightly harder, it was mostly caused by this laptop having many additional repositories and some manual installs and lots of libraries that had been installed in the past. But it works. Just more software means more work in upgrading. For instance, I have to use aptitude to upgrade remmina from a cindy repo to debian, so whilst a little more work, not that hard.

One of the immediate benefits is being able to run Flightgear 2018 instead of 2016 and that is a big change (meaning the newer version is a big improvement). Another is being able to run some software that required a newer version of QT5. This is a the biggest issue I have with running on oldstable, it loses it's ability to stay with current versions of other software rather quickly. But debian stable is normally well supported. So rather than LMDE 4 coming after being on oldstable for a year seems a bad idea. I would prefer it to move quickly when Debian moves stable.

I have now done this conversion 3 times, once on a virtualbox client, with zero additional software, once on a laptop that has limited additional software and once one a laptop that is loaded with other software and uses a UEFI boot instead of the legacy boot. And it works. There are some niggles, such as not having a GUI for LVM2 management in Buster, And I suspect other parts will require tweaking, but all in all, I'm happy with it. I have been running the other laptop for a while and the update works well, I've see updates from the cindy part and updates from buster. And from the previous posts, you can see that you do need to put in some tweaks (to the config, and one python script). So it is probably not for everyone, but then LMDE was originally for the more experimental group.

So I think LMDE being the main thing, no ubuntu and having one on LTS, one on stable and perhaps one on testing would be ideal. I left the mint on Ubuntu years ago, as it proved not stable enough for me on a daily basis. LMDE is rock solid.

But this is YMMV territory, so I would not want to suggest it will work for you, all I can do is note it has worked for me, 3 times now, and I see other reporting it works for them. But also one reporting it failed for them. But I am now running Cindy + Buster + kernel 5.2, and am happy with the result. It is not LMDE 4, but definitely 3+
Last edited by ChrisMW on Sat Sep 14, 2019 11:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: LMDE 4

Post by gene0915 » Fri Sep 13, 2019 7:20 pm

KBD47 wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 3:50 pm
I use MX Linux as my Plex server. It is included in MX package manager. I had to boot into the systemd kernel instead of the sysVinit kernel to keep it working correctly.
I would just use Windows or Main Mint for Plex at this point though. Debian is a PITA on occasion with Plex and not worth the aggravation overall.
I tried Plex on an Arch system thinking..... great, everything will be up to date and should run smoothly. WRONG! Found out Arch wasn't officially supported and ran into lots of weird playback issues so I scrapped that test system and stuck with Mint. I'll -PROBABLY- update to Mint 19.3 when it's out or maybe hold out a bit longer and wait for LMDE 4 and go with that full time on my server.

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