Till when can I use LMDE 4?

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dekibirokrata
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Till when can I use LMDE 4?

Post by dekibirokrata »

I installed LMDE 4 (I used LM 19.3 before - five years of support). I was surprised that LMDE has been supporting the Mint team for 2 years, and support for Debian packages will have another 2-3 years - LTS. Will this have an impact after two years of use on OS security, as there will be no support for specific Mint applications and programs. Can I use my LMDE 4 safely after the end of Mint team support, or after two years? I am new to LMDE 4.
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SilFox
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Re: Till when can I use LMDE 4?

Post by SilFox »

I was asking myself same question. After researching, I found this:
„LMDE4 will be supported untill LMDE 5 comes out.”
This is not an cynical answer, this answer means: developers will determine later, maybe after year or two, when is LMDE 5 expected to come out.
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dekibirokrata
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Re: Till when can I use LMDE 4?

Post by dekibirokrata »

Okay, I understand that. LMDE 4 will be supported by the Mint team until the release LMDE 5, which is approximately 2 years, after which it ceases to provide support. Support is maintained by the Debian or Debian community for another 2-3 years because the Debian team provides support for 2 years and then the community continues to provide support. That's about 5 years. However, my question is, can I still use my LMDE 4 safely after Mint team support expires or not?
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zaheermk
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Re: Till when can I use LMDE 4?

Post by zaheermk »

Hi dekibirokrata,

If I understood your question properly, please read the below (and also the linked pages) for a better understanding of LMDE.

LMDE 4 (Debbie) is based on Debian 10 (Buster)
LMDE 3 (Cindy) is based on Debian 9 (Stretch)
LMDE 2 (Betsy) is based on Debian 8 (Jessie)

The above is understood from https://linuxmint.com/download_all.php, https://linuxmint.com/rel_cindy.php and the below passage.

"In 2010, Linux Mint released Linux Mint Debian Edition (LMDE). Unlike the other Ubuntu-based editions (Ubuntu Mint), LMDE was originally a rolling release based directly on Debian and was not tied to Ubuntu packages or its release schedule.[11] It was announced on May 27, 2015 that the Linux Mint team would no longer support the original rolling release version of LMDE after January 1, 2016.[13] LMDE 2 'Betsy', the current release of LMDE, is a long term support release based on Debian Jessie.[14] When LMDE 2 was released it was announced that all LMDE users would be automatically upgraded to new versions of MintTools software and new Desktop Environments before they were released into the main edition of Linux Mint.[15]"
From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_Mint

"...It didn't take long for the LMDE developers to realize that a rolling distribution is a lot of work, and trying to keep frequent updates from breaking anything is very difficult... The first step back from "rolling distribution" that they took was to create "Update Packs", where updates are bundled and tested and distributed periodically... Finally, we got to the current state, where the latest LMDE ISO images were released in April 2014, and there has not been an Update Pack since then. At this point it was starting to look like the LMDE update/release cycle was eventually going to stretch out to the point that it more or less reflected the Debian release cycle."
From https://www.zdnet.com/article/the-futur ... rivatives/

So, with the above understanding, I think, LMDE, even though started as a rolling (semi-rolling) release based on Debian Testing, due to consideration of stability, must have switched to Debian Stable. For being a true rolling release, LMDE should have been based on Debian Unstable, like a few other distros which are rolling release based on it.

"The unstable distribution is always called sid."
From https://www.debian.org/releases/

"Debian Unstable (also known by its codename "Sid") is not strictly a release, but rather a rolling development version of the Debian distribution containing the latest packages that have been introduced into Debian."
From https://wiki.debian.org/DebianUnstable

"...Most of them are based on Debian unstable and Debian testing..."
From https://www.pcsuggest.com/debian-rollin ... tion-list/


As you would be already knowing, the Linux Mint Ubuntu Edition (Main Edition) is based on Ubuntu LTS releases:
LM UE 20 is based on Ubuntu 20.04 LTS
LM UE 19 is based on Ubuntu 18.04 LTS
LM UE 18 is based on Ubuntu 16.04 LTS

The above can be understood from the below two sites:
https://www.linuxmint.com/download_all.php and https://releases.ubuntu.com/

Similarly, LMDE, nowadays, is a fixed release based on Debian Stable versions, as shown in the first passage.


As a secondary OS, I was looking for a rolling release distro, which I would not have to periodically upgrade but would receive continuous updates, and preferably based on Debian. So I was excited when LMDE was launched, but it turned out like I mentioned above. I was planning to take a backup using Timeshift before applying an update, so that if there is any broken packages after the update, I will be able to revert back to the pre-update state using the backup with Timeshift.

Now that LMDE is not a rolling release, I might be checking out some other distro based on Debian Unstable or maybe Arch or Gentoo or something else.
https://www.addictivetips.com/ubuntu-li ... ributions/
https://www.slant.co/topics/6289/~rolli ... tributions
https://www.pcsuggest.com/debian-rollin ... tion-list/


If I understood your question correctly, as a direct answer to your question, you would be able to use LMDE 4 (supported with security/software updates) till LMDE 5 comes out which could be based on the next stable Debian 11 (Bullseye) release, for which no release date has been set yet, but which should be around two years, as could be understood from the below site. And as for usage after its EOL or after the support is withdrawn, it is not recommended to use any OS (which is connected to any network/internet), due to probable security issues.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debian_version_history

Please reply if you come to know something which is different from the above, so that it corrects my understanding also.
Thank you.
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zaheermk
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Re: Till when can I use LMDE 4?

Post by zaheermk »

Hi B Dewi 321,
B Dewi 321 wrote: Fri Apr 17, 2020 9:19 am Dear Zaheermk ,
much appreciated your hystorical LMDE review , but I would like only to complete your conclusion in relation to the advise you’re giving :
Dekibirokrata is wondering himself :
“ However, my question is, can I still use my LMDE 4 safely after Mint team support expires or not ? “
Thank you very much for the appreciation. :D

For that "NO" you used, I had tried to put it a bit subtly and said "it is not recommended to use any OS". Which I thought would be understood as a no.

Now, if LMDE is being used as a full fledged OS, for connecting to the internet, browsing, chatting etc. then I would also stand by what you said. "NO" for LMDE 4 usage after its end of support, in the above mentioned case.

But, if LMDE (or for that matter, any other OS) is not being connected to the internet (for eg: a system where it is used only for printing documents, just to be used as a modern typewriter), then even after OS support has been withdrawn, I would say it can be continued to be used safely.

I mean, even then bug fixes might be able to make the OS better. But still, there would not be any security issues, if it is not connected to the internet. So, if that PC is configured to work properly with that old printer for printing documents/receipts/bills offline, then it can be continued to be used for the application as it is.

What do you say?


And I didn't know an actual bug was found while debugging, and that it has been recorded in history! Thanks for that piece of history! 8)
dekibirokrata
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Re: Till when can I use LMDE 4?

Post by dekibirokrata »

Thanks a lot for the answers.
I want to mention that I am just an average Linux user with not very special knowledge, but I am very happy with the Linux experience.
So the LMDE 4 I currently use on my notebook can still be used after the end of support from the Mint team (after EOL), but it is not recommended for security reasons.
On my small 10 year old netbook (eMachine eM 355) I use Debian 10 with the Xfce environment but I can say that LMDE 4 is better optimized for less experienced users even though it is Debian based.
I know 2 years is not a very short period, however, for example, Ubuntu based LM support is 5 years. For 5 years I can use my laptop peacefully and forget about upgrading to a new version for a long time.
Is it the same with Debian? This may be off topic but as far as I know every Debian release has been supported for about 2 years by the Debian team (stable - old stable) and after that support is not provided by the Debian team focusing on the new release but by the community.
In any case, I am very pleased with LMDE as it is extremely stable and unlike LM 19 it does not have frequent updates.

I apologize for the bad English. Greetings from Serbia.
dekibirokrata
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Re: Till when can I use LMDE 4?

Post by dekibirokrata »

Ok, ok, i find. Wikipedia.

"A new stable branch of Debian gets released approximately every 2 years. It will receive official support for about 3 years with update for major security or usability fixes. Point releases will be available every several months as determined by Stable Release Managers (SRM). Debian also launched its Long Term Support (LTS) project since Debian 6 (Debian Squeeze). For each Debian release, it will receive two years of extra security updates provided by LTS Team after its End Of Life (EOL). However, no point releases will be made. Now each Debian release can receive 5 years of security support in total."
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antikythera
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Re: Till when can I use LMDE 4?

Post by antikythera »

Actually you can safely use LMDE4 for as long as Buster is supported upstream by the LTS team. Okay, so you may not get package updates for Mint specifics but the stability and security updates from Debian would continue flowing through. So with that in mind at least 5 years. It depends if you have to have the latest stuff from Mint or not.

End users are responsible for deciding how often if at all updates are applied. With a Debian base they are few and far between anyway. You can in theory carry on using LMDE4 after Buster is no longer supported. By that time, chances are you will need a new machine (depending on how old your current hardware is) and a fresh install, so I wouldn't be too concerned. Unless you hardly use the machine concerned the HDD or SSD will last a maximum 5-7 years if you are lucky. Current SSD come with 5 year warranties BUT if you read them carefully, it is actually also limited by the number of write cycles and not just length of service.
I’ll tell you a DNS joke but be advised, it could take up to 24 hours for everyone to get it.
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