linuxmint.com web site should recommend MATE

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parke
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linuxmint.com web site should recommend MATE

Post by parke »

One of the first choices new Mint users will need to make is what desktop environment to download and install. I believe Mint has two "primary" desktops: MATE and Cinnamon.

I suggest that the linuxmint.com web site should recommend a default (MATE), so that new users don't have to waste time and energy trying to make this choice.

The Linux Mint User Guide (for Mint 13) already does this. It says:
"If you don’t know which edition to use, you should choose the MATE Edition."

However, the above advice is buried inside a 51 page PDF. I believe the advice should also be present on the following pages at linuxmint.com:

http://www.linuxmint.com/download.php

http://www.linuxmint.com/download_lmde.php

If there is a better place than this "Suggestions & New Ideas" for me to submit this suggestion, please let me know. Thanks!

Drake
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Re: linuxmint.com web site should recommend MATE

Post by Drake »

I agree I prefer MATE over Cinammon, somehow MATE seems a bit faster and does not have the issue with the screensaver kicking in despite being turned off while watching videos on a website that Cinnamon has, yes I know that's fixable but yes MATE is cool.

nomko

Re: linuxmint.com web site should recommend MATE

Post by nomko »

Linuxmint.com shouldn't recommend any desktop as "their favorite"! Linuxmint.com provides an operating system which comes with different desktop environments. Which one the users likes the most depends entirely upon the users them self. Not on the website, the developers, or any other person involved with Linux MInt.

Drake
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Re: linuxmint.com web site should recommend MATE

Post by Drake »

nomko wrote:Linuxmint.com shouldn't recommend any desktop as "their favorite"! Linuxmint.com provides an operating system which comes with different desktop environments. Which one the users likes the most depends entirely upon the users them self. Not on the website, the developers, or any other person involved with Linux MInt.
That's an opinion. My opinion is Linux Mint offers too many choices, each choice takes up time of the people making Linux Mint instead of concentrating on one flavour and getting that right.

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sammiev
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Re: linuxmint.com web site should recommend MATE

Post by sammiev »

nomko wrote:Linuxmint.com shouldn't recommend any desktop as "their favorite"! Linuxmint.com provides an operating system which comes with different desktop environments. Which one the users likes the most depends entirely upon the users them self. Not on the website, the developers, or any other person involved with Linux MInt.
+1 Couldn't have been said better.

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Beardedragon
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Re: linuxmint.com web site should recommend MATE

Post by Beardedragon »

sammiev wrote:
nomko wrote:Linuxmint.com shouldn't recommend any desktop as "their favorite"! Linuxmint.com provides an operating system which comes with different desktop environments. Which one the users likes the most depends entirely upon the users them self. Not on the website, the developers, or any other person involved with Linux MInt.
+1 Couldn't have been said better.
+2 See my Signature
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nomko

Re: linuxmint.com web site should recommend MATE

Post by nomko »

Drake wrote:That's an opinion. My opinion is Linux Mint offers too many choices, each choice takes up time of the people making Linux Mint instead of concentrating on one flavour and getting that right.
It's not an opinion, it's a fact! Developers/maintainers of Linux Mint and linuxmint.com can't recommend a desktop environment. It is entirely up to the user which desktop environment he/she chooses to use. By having a broad amount of desktop environments, the user can pick a desktop environment, use it and decide whether the DE is suitable for his/her needs or not and select another DE. That's called freedom of choice you don't have with, let's say, Windows or MacOS.

Compare it with this: if you buy a car, is the car salesman deciding for you which color you must buy?
And compare the amount of desktop environments with this: When you look in the folder of that car you want to buy, how many colors can you choose from? Did you ever wrote a complain about this to the car manufacturers that there are too many colors to choose from and that they should sell their cars in only 1 color??
Exactly!

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Beardedragon
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Re: linuxmint.com web site should recommend MATE

Post by Beardedragon »

Henry Ford once said that you can have any color you want as long as it's Black. LOL Look at them now.
Robert Collard, Madison, WI
Linux Mint 19.2 Tina Kernel: 4.15.0-55
Desktop System: HP EliteDesk 705 G1 SFF
CPU: Quad Core model: AMD A10-6800K APU
NVIDIA GK208 [GeForce GT 720] nvidia v: 340.107
Acer Technologies 24" 1920 x 1080

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anandrkris
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Re: linuxmint.com web site should recommend MATE

Post by anandrkris »

In my opinion, need not recommend a default DE but can clearly distinguish the features each DE offers, list some pros and cons of each edition.
Cheers,
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guimaster

Re: linuxmint.com web site should recommend MATE

Post by guimaster »

Drake wrote:I agree I prefer MATE over Cinammon, somehow MATE seems a bit faster and does not have the issue with the screensaver kicking in despite being turned off while watching videos on a website that Cinnamon has, yes I know that's fixable but yes MATE is cool.
"Somehow" MATE seems faster? Of course it's faster. It's old technology. It's also less visually appealing as a consequence of being old tech.

chiefjim
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Re: linuxmint.com web site should recommend MATE

Post by chiefjim »

Perhaps each DE could already be installed. Then on the login screen each would be prominently offered for selection. Users, particularly new users, would then be more likely to learn the subtleties of each.

While users of other distros coming to Mint may already understand the concept of different DE's those coming from Windoze face confusion. For this reason I start them with Mate then mention the others are available for evaluation.
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guimaster

Re: linuxmint.com web site should recommend MATE

Post by guimaster »

chiefjim wrote:Perhaps each DE could already be installed. Then on the login screen each would be prominently offered for selection. Users, particularly new users, would then be more likely to learn the subtleties of each.

While users of other distros coming to Mint may already understand the concept of different DE's those coming from Windoze face confusion. For this reason I start them with Mate then mention the others are available for evaluation.
That's how it is with LMDE, it comes with both Mate and Cinnamon.

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xenopeek
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Re: linuxmint.com web site should recommend MATE

Post by xenopeek »

guimaster wrote:That's how it is with LMDE, it comes with both Mate and Cinnamon.
Nope. Older ISOs of LMDE came with Cinnamon+MATE but currently these are separate ISOs also on LMDE.
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guimaster

Re: linuxmint.com web site should recommend MATE

Post by guimaster »

xenopeek wrote:
guimaster wrote:That's how it is with LMDE, it comes with both Mate and Cinnamon.
Nope. Older ISOs of LMDE came with Cinnamon+MATE but currently these are separate ISOs also on LMDE.


Okay, thanks for the correction :)

phill1978
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Re: linuxmint.com web site should recommend MATE

Post by phill1978 »

currently mint 15 should only come with MATE and XFCE. Cinnamon is royally fudged, the coding is sloppy.

crashes left, right and center on multiple hardware types using oem driver or open source. Its a complete balls up :evil:

guimaster

Re: linuxmint.com web site should recommend MATE

Post by guimaster »

phill1978 wrote:currently mint 15 should only come with MATE and XFCE. Cinnamon is royally fudged, the coding is sloppy.

crashes left, right and center on multiple hardware types using oem driver or open source. Its a complete balls up :evil:
Sorry to hear you are struggling. Luckily for me I haven't had any crashes. I did have the disappearing Skype icon problem and my Pidgin icon is sometimes invisible. As well, currently the Mint Update icon is invisible. Kind of silly but there was an update to Cinnamon today, so hopefully things will be improved upon reboot.

bennabiy
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Re: linuxmint.com web site should recommend MATE

Post by bennabiy »

From my experience, Mint and MATE go hand in hand. We run multiple computer labs with LTSP-Linux Terminal Server Project ( which I really wish Mint developers would contribute code to ) and mate is so fast and stable.

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daveinuk
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Re: linuxmint.com web site should recommend MATE

Post by daveinuk »

I suggest that the linuxmint.com web site should recommend a default (MATE), so that new users don't have to waste time and energy trying to make this choice.
Wuuuuuuuut??? And take away my distro hopping fun and shennanagins, how very dare you young lady :lol:

On a serious note....... choice is Linux's greatest strength, try as many as you like, that's the beauty, who else can you do that with at little or no cost? Sometimes with older hardware even the above two won't be great, that's where all the smaller distros come in . . .

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js3915
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Re: linuxmint.com web site should recommend MATE

Post by js3915 »

Only reason im guessing MATE isnt recommended would be because Cinnamon is Linux's mints own developed DE where as MATE was started elsewhere from an Arch Linux User.. Though Linux Mint im guessing has done most of the work in the fork project than others

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xenopeek
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Re: linuxmint.com web site should recommend MATE

Post by xenopeek »

There is a lot of history here that is being skipped over I believe :)

MATE was first introduced with Linux Mint 12, and [url=http://www.linuxmint.com/rel_lisa_whatsnew.php]at the time[/url] it was made clear it had some rough edges left:
MATE is brand new, it's not completely stable yet, and it's missing a few parts. It's being actively maintained and with close collaboration between the MATE developers and Linux Mint. With time the project will gain maturity and provide users with a traditional and solid desktop experience.

Eventually, MATE will be in every way identical to Gnome 2 and represent the future of traditional desktops within Linux.
MATE was bundled with the GNOME 3+MGSE release so users could fall back to that if MATE didn't work well for them; GNOME 3 at the time still also had the "fallback" mode for a GNOME 2-like experience. Linux Mint 12 also had a KDE and a LXDE release as stable alternatives.

Just after the release of Linux Mint 12 the Cinnamon project [url=http://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=1910]was announced[/url] to supersede GNOME 3 and MGSE. The development cycle for Linux Mint 13 solidified the new vision for the Linux Mint direction, with a focus on Cinnamon, KDE, MATE and Xfce releases for the Main Edition (dropping Fluxbox and LXDE).

Linux Mint 13 shipped with Cinnamon, KDE, MATE, and Xfce and so has every release since. Those are the current four desktop environment shipped with the Main Edition of Linux Mint--"Main Edition" meaning the edition with the Ubuntu package base, as opposed to the "Debian Edition" (LMDE) with the Debian package base... At the time of Linux Mint 13, MATE still had rough edges as compared to GNOME 2, but Cinnamon was a younger project with just shy of half a year of development done. MATE and Cinnamon were featured with a [url=http://www.linuxmint.com/rel_maya_whatsnew.php]pros & cons comparison[/url] so users could make an informed choice between them based on that. But given that those pros & cons are rather technical, and not all users could be expected to follow or understand that--and thus not be able to make an informed choice--users were given the advice to pick MATE when in doubt.

At the time MATE was considered more stable and compatible with more hardware than Cinnamon. Of course the KDE and Xfce releases done two months later were at least as stable as MATE and were equally suitable alternative choices--but as these were not available at the time of the MATE and Cinnamon releases, those weren't included in the recommendation.

Since Linux Mint 14 Cinnamon is considered stable and suitable for use on most modern computers. Like KDE, it requires a bit more from a computer than MATE or Xfce do. All four are suitable choices for users new to Linux Mint, though each of us many have a different opinion on which we would recommend :wink:

It's no secret that the Cinnamon project is a Linux Mint project, though many contributing developers have flocked to the project from other distros, and that the Linux Mint developers also have a role in the MATE project. Both are special to Linux Mint, though equal attention is given to the KDE and Xfce releases by the distro developers and the distro testers.
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