First things first on install help window

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Mangar
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First things first on install help window

Post by Mangar »

I was just talking to 5 people at once who will all go home in the morning and install LM 17 to their old PCs.
As I was showing them some videos of LM 17 what it looks like and software manager and telling them alternatives to their email, and chat apps but in LM.

after selling them to check out LM, and they want to now, I had a problem for them to do those needed steps to perform once it is up.

Problem: I did not know which to refer the 20 things to do, the 10 things to do or the 7 things to do after install video as a need to do thing.

Solution: what about putting some "hit list" of things to do as a recommendation on the desktop welcome window? or was there a tutorial that I missed?

If there is a video or website that has the best and latest thing to do just put a link to it, or do a small write up. one would like to make it as easy for a person to set up their own PC correctly the first time.
I did use a few out their and fudged my first 2-3 installs until I found the latest MINT or a link here on a members signature that was the most helpful. It would be kind of good to point new people to a recommend starting check list.
I was lost my first time doing a sudo terminal update from the wrong place following an incorrect video when it could have been done from the desktop correctly the first time.

that way some inviting people can say after it is loaded click on the "to do list" even if links had setting up your email (link it to Thunderbird help url) or other so like

1. update computer security and settings "here you will need to do this periodically .... and such.... for reasons..."
2. Software manager
a. Browsers go to a>b>c> click and install the browsers chrome or other of your choice "..blah ... blah.."
b. another thing
c. Setting up your email ...
3. Checking drivers A>B>C> ...
4. adding a user... << how many times has that been repeated in the forum?
#.
#.

Or is that a complete was of time? a new person to Linux might be overwhelmed and lost, but a few basic steps that they can follow would make them feel more at home and that they can at least get a few basic things set up then feel Linux is over their head. I am not saying baby them do to changing the wall paper, but at least get some basic things listed to get them the very basic steps or LINKS they can open and do for a truly first time Linux user. they might have only know window or mac lingo and Linux will be completely foreign in verbiage to them.
Life after Windows! the future looks MINT!
completely new to Linux here is a quick overall for 1st timers Lingo curve http://www.linfo.org/newbies.html
Alternative applications to what Windows users do things http://www.linuxalt.com/
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gtsfer
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Re: First things first on install help window

Post by gtsfer »

Mangar wrote:Problem: I did not know which to refer the 20 things to do, the 10 things to do or the 7 things to do after install video as a need to do thing.
What video? From where? Is it one of those YouTube things? Post us a link to it so we can look at it. There's probably hundreds of them and some are bound to be pretty bad and some are pretty good.

1) Run updates after install and reboot. This is important to do on any OS.
2) Turn the firewall on. Either by command line or you can install Gufw with Package Manager and then enable it.
3) Import saved FF bookmarks (if you have a copy saved). Customize the LO Writer toolbars if you want. Add or install your printer.
4) Just proceed to use the system and enjoy it.

Take you time and learn about Linux. "Linux is not Windows". Learn about Package Manager, the 'nix file system and gradually some command line stuff will come to you by using it over time. All the rest in those videos is probably just personal preference or someone's burning desire to be famous.

8)
"There is no gravity, the earth sucks." - Issac Newton @ 75
KDE & Cinnamon 18.1 & Win 10 - ASUS M5A99FX PRO MB, AMD FX-8370 Octo-Core CPU, 16GB RAM, AMD Radeon R7 240
Mangar
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Re: First things first on install help window

Post by Mangar »

I did not even know about updating the OS until I started downloading themes from Ubuntu and caked it. then noticed first steps to be done after install.

yes all those youtube videos and I really wish I was pointed to this site first with a popup after I did my first official boot after install
https://sites.google.com/site/easylinux ... amon-first

however my downfall was following the vast so called help videos and web pages to load stuff not in manager or found something close in Ubuntu.
I have been filtering searches from 1 month to 1 year to exclude older mint versions or old web search step by steps. there was a few I assumed were
LM Cinna but found out later were mate or xcfe that I was following a sudo command. I myself still don't know how much difference doing a Mate sudo can
effect a cinna OS version. but considering each has its own page for things to set up after install, I think i did fudge a number of things :shock: :roll:

example this may not have been one that I fudged a clean install but notice it starts off as Cinnamon 17
http://www.mambochimbo.com/2014/06/to-d ... lling.html
My first install I thought mate KDE and xcfe were desk top skin on mint cinna, go figure a WIN user noobie to LM :lol: :P well the results were a few more reinstall again.
So you can see my ignorance scrolling down past some KEY lingo words that I should not have pasted those sudo's thinking I could customize my first install of Cinnamon.

Example search "7 Things to do after installing Linux Mint 17" one video is labeled as such http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWJOMptw_2o "good video but not sure if Qiana makes a difference loading Ubuntu restricted since all the other MINT 17 never mention that one. started to get the impression any Qiana is good it looks the same as my desktop theme or close to it, started to do some more qiana help videos and blogs :P well the results was to reinstall again.

Another was googling "installing latest ati driver in Mint" 1st result 1 year ago http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2X4cA4A7OY well most places I read Mint came from Ubuntu so it can't hurt, right? Well Mint 16 help guides are close to 17? :P well the results was to reinstall again.

I know a bit better now there is a difference, I think the biggest ignorance coming to any Linux os is not knowing the past 10 years of linux history. So it is very easy for it to seem one size fits all, look at any LM version they all look alike except mate (blue) it is very easy to approach "looks like a duck, walks like a duck, it is a duck".

IMHO all the LM I crossed over directions and details my first week, Lots of reading and lots of self history of Linux. If you know you will have people coming that know nothing about LM let alone Linux, a can bet many will make an honest mistake mixing much of them up into one size fits all.

You might consider people coming to Linux, is like going to another country and where there was no tourist or tour guide, I kind of got on the wrong train and bus a few times. Not a good feeling to put new people in that may get discourage when it don't work the first time due to a lack of familiarity.

gtsfer, your post is true, I like it.
Last edited by Mangar on Mon Sep 15, 2014 9:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
Life after Windows! the future looks MINT!
completely new to Linux here is a quick overall for 1st timers Lingo curve http://www.linfo.org/newbies.html
Alternative applications to what Windows users do things http://www.linuxalt.com/
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Pierre
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Re: First things first on install help window

Post by Pierre »

Problem: I did not know which to refer the 20 things to do, the 10 things to do or the 7 things to do after install video as a need to do thing.
Some things to do, after a fresh install of LinuxMint:
http://www.techsupportalert.com/content ... dition.htm
http://www.linuxandlife.com/2012/05/10- ... linux.html
http://itsfoss.com/things-to-do-after-i ... x-mint-17/

there are lots of "things to do after installing Mint".
- even though most of them, are for older Mint versions, the same ideas - do still apply. ..
Image
Please edit your original post title to include [SOLVED] - when your problem is solved!
and DO LOOK at those Unanswered Topics - - you may be able to answer some!.
Mangar
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Re: First things first on install help window

Post by Mangar »

Ok but overall, don't you think it would be a good idea to have an upfront link(s) telling a person, If you are new to the Linux world we strongly recommend following some of these links .....etc.

Kind of like a Tourist Visitor Center. It might help those people completely clueless to Linux and not having to wonder is this the right thing to follow, or that one? It would have saved me at least 5 days and 7 re installs.

I feel for you guys having to answer some good question about hardware and stuff that is a given. But if one has to repeat the same basic questions over a few times by many people, do you think maybe that strikes up a thought "Is their a way we could make it clearer or more visible?" if it does reduce those basic fumbles from being repeated over and over, that give those members to focus on more in-depth issues.
Life after Windows! the future looks MINT!
completely new to Linux here is a quick overall for 1st timers Lingo curve http://www.linfo.org/newbies.html
Alternative applications to what Windows users do things http://www.linuxalt.com/
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gtsfer
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Re: First things first on install help window

Post by gtsfer »

Mangar wrote:Ok but overall, don't you think it would be a good idea to have an upfront link(s) telling a person, If you are new to the Linux world we strongly recommend following some of these links .....etc.
Maybe the LM main website could have a link to some "official" tutorials. Sure, I would agree that makes sense. But then somebody's gotta make the tutorials and maintain them. I think Clem and the dev teams already have their hands full. :D

When I decided Windows was going bust (a year before they buried XP) I Goggled for everything. Every little scrap of info and none of it made much sense at first. I learned just enough to get started the hard way, like everyone else. Imho, they should teach Linux more in school.

In reality not one distro I know of (and I've looked at plenty) has much of anything like "how-to's" or "Beginner's Linux" info on their web site.
"There is no gravity, the earth sucks." - Issac Newton @ 75
KDE & Cinnamon 18.1 & Win 10 - ASUS M5A99FX PRO MB, AMD FX-8370 Octo-Core CPU, 16GB RAM, AMD Radeon R7 240
Mangar
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Re: First things first on install help window

Post by Mangar »

gtsfer wrote:
Mangar wrote:Ok but overall, don't you think it would be a good idea to have an upfront link(s) telling a person, If you are new to the Linux world we strongly recommend following some of these links .....etc.
Maybe the LM main website could have a link to some "official" tutorials. Sure, I would agree that makes sense. But then somebody's gotta make the tutorials and maintain them. I think Clem and the dev teams already have their hands full. :D

When I decided Windows was going bust (a year before they buried XP) I Goggled for everything. Every little scrap of info and none of it made much sense at first. I learned just enough to get started the hard way, like everyone else. Imho, they should teach Linux more in school.

In reality not one distro I know of (and I've looked at plenty) has much of anything like "how-to's" or "Beginner's Linux" info on their web site.
Cool, I bow to the group that can become a step above the other distro's. If you did I am sure word of mouth would make you much more popular. "Hey man, try Mint first, they have a great step by step to getting you set up"

after install popup like info "Your First time installing a LM" have links to a wiki pages one for each Cinna, Mate, KDE, ..." and a check box "don't show this again"
if the noob does click and gets the html page or stand alone page loaded when the install takes place from the thumb drive while connected to the internet.

In the Nuclear industry writing step by step procedures is critical that a monkey can follow it. Why? if a disaster happens anyone can follow step by step with confidence that procedure has been approved.

You will know if it makes a difference, when you see the number of simple install errors repeated posts in the forum drop, that will increase the quality of the posts searching through them. let's the higher up guys focus on the harder issues. and it could be easy to say "Did you follow the step by step procedure?" if yes, then carefully listen and see if the instructions need better clarification. OVER ALL if a noob reads all the install issue mistakes, they might think Linux is to difficult even before they try.

the more "idiot proof" or "Ignorant Proof" one makes things up front really does free up precious time later not repeated the same topic issues over and over.
I am sure there plenty of people here new and old that have edited some form of wiki and would love to proof read and follow instructions to give feed back.

Quality in, quality out.

Oh even if the community started with one instruction, once it is done as Cinna 17 it is that much easy to copy and correct that as a Mate 17 draft and so on. then if you guys move to 18 , only a few edit changes and its a simple thing to follow. Once it is started it does not take much effort to keep it up to date. I am not talking a manual doc either just a sheet or few if need be. Than ask people if it was worth it and to gain more people and users to stay. :)
Life after Windows! the future looks MINT!
completely new to Linux here is a quick overall for 1st timers Lingo curve http://www.linfo.org/newbies.html
Alternative applications to what Windows users do things http://www.linuxalt.com/
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DrHu
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Re: First things first on install help window

Post by DrHu »

If its working, just have them use it
--any apps or services or graphic effects that are runing for the user logon will not likely be noticed until they have some time with the system; I'd give it 2-3 weeks to settle in, before suggesting any optimization steps
  • Those additional optimations, would be
    1. Turn off services/devices, remove applications and language settings you don't use
But, do as first poster ( gtsfer ) suggested..
1. Update the system and applications (upgrade)
2.Turn on the firewall
--that's a default/standard practice for most users, even if it isn't that much help, since the ISP is already blocking stuff that might leak through (there is the question of whether or not one needs their own software firewall behind an ISP conection ..)
I would have them use the GUI based package managers, but alert them to the apt command in a terminal: it is often quicker and in fact just as easy or easier, if you don't mind looking at text responses.

After that lead-in time to familiarize them with the OS operations: such as file manager, media players, LibreOffice, XFburn to write CD/DVD or video/movie apps to package or save movies, and so on
  • I would then offer thgem the extras, that as a windows or other OS user, they may not have paid any attention to..
  • Permissions on files/directories (or folders if they prefer/like that term)
  • Possibly some online tutorials or Ubuntu's wikis or Mint's help files, including an application help files, such as Thunar, that doesn't come as a default install -- so help is mising (might be disconcerting )
  • The mint welcome screen/webpage
    --that would give a quick overview
From there it is just a matter of their interest and the functionality they wish to have available..
Mangar
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Re: First things first on install help window

Post by Mangar »

I have noticed there is one way to update the OS and three ways to install packages on LM OS, forgive me of any ignorance.
1. Update OS ALWAYS via terminal as many previous step by step or videos. (done!)

Software install can be accomplish by three methods
1. Terminal screen like in many older version guides (really never did all updates and installs) (yes I took the lazy way in step 2. and/or 3.)
2. Software Manager (I performed this many times)
1st time bluefish still not quite right?
3. Synaptic Manager (To me it seems better then software Manager like it helps add extra items that I would not have know to select)
2nd time bluefish still not quite right?
Tried Apache php xammp and mysql, strange it never stop to allow me to set admin, and blue fish 2.2.5 still not right opening (places to select URL or FTP)

Ok I just got off 12 hr shift an hour ago. I been on them for the past 8 weeks straight. So you can image my half focus mad dash lately asking for so how to's.

Tell you what, I will perform a step by step install on both machines again. This time I will perform strictly terminal on one and do Software manager on the other.
I will do a step by step and very curious if terminal installs the best way. If I can not find a decent terminal sudo commands I will ask.

SO I will track my view points and steps as clearly as possible even from example links above!. Maybe it might point out of uncover and nooblet issues.

Past 2 weeks feeling like a turtle swimming in peanut butter try to get actual work done. :roll:
------
1st install from 2 gig thumb
sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get upgrade
This had several UFT-8 warning that it was not supported??? 7 to 8 warnings I kept the history logs. You think that is a install killer or bad iso?
I also tried tried sudo to clearing the locale archive and purge it but it made no difference. http://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=111527

----------------
Ok I decided a better way might be is create a forum area with stickies, well if this forum can do stickies I am sure.
Example Mint may recommend stuff like Bluefish, as a noob I used many non Linux stuff to ftp to many remote websites over the years. Knowing how FTP works or filezillia Many people had issues on plenty of threads. The way to connect to remote files verses local files was found in only one place buried deep on bluefishes website. NOT even is on manual had any example or discussion in it.

I think a problem that I am trying to sum up is, LM is inadvertently recommending many software packages to use saying they work (they do work) but I spent 3-4 days to find one location maybe to make a simple click load, and start working in a few minutes into a complete and utterly frustrating experience.

solution make a forum area of "walk throughs" let your experience forum moderators start a thread so there are no duplicates, at the header title say "BlueFish, download and connecting", "WallCH, install and folder setup",
LM 15, 16, 17, Bluefish 2.2.5 < whatever is being used in the software manager
(( have the simple walk through )) connecting to like local files or remote files, anything pertaining to install and configuration to getting it started, then the new user can get lost like they are getting some where.
followed by the walk through PER each (item you list because it is like LM is recommending them) if a person has an is with something special like say "how do I format fonts" point a link to the Blue fish website.

The key is LM may need to get your users (prove the OS and Software others are using does work) after that any details send the the user to links of the software main page.

<thread>
[title]
[LM versions, software release in the download]
(([simple quick and dirty guide step by step]))
[extra links to that software site, this is to guide the user to get answer to beyond the install and working or bug reporting with that software vendor]
---end of first post---
{public members can comment on stuff after the first post} or lock it
</thread>

any need to edit the first post any of your forum moderators or admin can update that first post. Now you keep record and quick control over it. Something changes or needs clarification any person can post after and will give Que, comment or correction too that first post. First time users to the forums will know they do not have to read the entire post looking for and answer they just can rely that first post should get them rolling. If not, they can comment in the thread continuing any clarification to simplify LM users experience of a Great OS, and that productivity can be done in hrs or same day, NOT days trying to make it work or getting past the install.
* this is for giving windows and mac users a leg up, nobody likes to look dumb, BUT I am not afraid of doing it and pointing out that there can be many previous people that gave up never speaking up, therefore LM lost another popularity vote and a satisfied user.

PROVE ME WRONG::: The biggest complaint talking to windows users the past week is they told me trying to set up a LINUX OS is to complicated and never were able to get stuff working ( people were expressing issue from 3-5 years back some 10 years) So help me help myself and them prove that stereotype of linux as a dead issue.

Doing it can help LM point to it own location control in help threads from the OS install as well. If new members have a question, LM user can reply with a link to that simplified walk through post. before you know it your forum walk through setting up as a new user from windows will get a lot more clout then you think.

IF LM was flooded with an additional 50,000 to 100,000 downloads next week of Strict only WIN users and you satisfied 90% of them with getting up and running, what would that word of mouth do? better chances of funding and more word of mouth.
Life after Windows! the future looks MINT!
completely new to Linux here is a quick overall for 1st timers Lingo curve http://www.linfo.org/newbies.html
Alternative applications to what Windows users do things http://www.linuxalt.com/
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