Please make automatic updates user-friendly

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Xwrc
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Re: Please make automatic updates user-friendly

Post by Xwrc » Wed Aug 12, 2015 4:25 am

Pjotr wrote:Having to click on an update warning in the system tray. And then having to type your password for installing the updates. I fail to see what could be so bloody awful about that, even in the eyes of the "unwashed masses". :mrgreen:
I have no numbers about how common that scenario actually is, but I would assume that Linux Mint would be a natural choice for many people who want to provide their grandparents and other non-techy people with low-grade computers that allow them to run Skype, check out family photos, receive e-mail and little more. And it might be difficult to teach some elderly people new things like installing updates when you previously had them on auto-updating WIndows PC or on no PC at all. Even if you teach them to install updates, they might forget down the line, and a computer without security updates is not good news for anynone.
Perhaps you don't imagine LM as an OS targeted at this group, but I believe the number of these (potential) users is bigger than you might think.

(Bash script sounds like a good solution, though [perhaps "because" from your point of view:-)] it will be probably found by fewer people than a checkbox in the settings.)

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Pjotr
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Re: Please make automatic updates user-friendly

Post by Pjotr » Wed Aug 12, 2015 4:36 am

Xwrc wrote:I have no numbers about how common that scenario actually is, but I would assume that Linux Mint would be a natural choice for many people who want to provide their grandparents and other non-techy people with low-grade computers that allow them to run Skype, check out family photos, receive e-mail and little more. And it might be difficult to teach some elderly people new things like installing updates when you previously had them on auto-updating WIndows PC or on no PC at all. Even if you teach them to install updates, they might forget down the line, and a computer without security updates is not good news for anynone.
Perhaps you don't imagine LM as an OS targeted at this group, but I believe the number of these (potential) users is bigger than you might think.
Valid point.... For that target group (which unfortunately also includes my wife and my children), I've created the following solution:
https://sites.google.com/site/easylinux ... -prominent
(item 3.8, right column)

Not automatic, but it puts available updates so much "in your face", that you simply can't overlook or forget them. :mrgreen:
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Xwrc
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Re: Please make automatic updates user-friendly

Post by Xwrc » Wed Aug 12, 2015 4:40 am

Pjotr wrote:Valid point.... For that target group (which unfortunately also includes my wife and my children), I've created the following solution:
https://sites.google.com/site/easylinux ... -prominent
(item 3.8, right column)

Not automatic, but it puts available updates so much "in your face", that you simply can't overlook or forget them. :mrgreen:
Thanks, didn't know about this and it certainly helps.

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Re: Please make automatic updates user-friendly

Post by Pjotr » Wed Aug 12, 2015 5:46 am

@Xwrc: you're welcome. :)

The procedure that I outlined is for Cinnamon only. I've also written how-to's for Mate and Xfce:

Mate:
https://sites.google.com/site/easylinux ... -prominent
(item 3.9, right column)

Xfce:
https://sites.google.com/site/easylinux ... -prominent
(item 3.11, right column)
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karsti
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Re: Please make automatic updates user-friendly

Post by karsti » Thu Aug 13, 2015 7:24 am

Xwrc wrote:
Pjotr wrote:Having to click on an update warning in the system tray. And then having to type your password for installing the updates. I fail to see what could be so bloody awful about that, even in the eyes of the "unwashed masses". :mrgreen:
I have no numbers about how common that scenario actually is, but I would assume that Linux Mint would be a natural choice for many people who want to provide their grandparents and other non-techy people with low-grade computers that allow them to run Skype, check out family photos, receive e-mail and little more. And it might be difficult to teach some elderly people new things like installing updates when you previously had them on auto-updating WIndows PC or on no PC at all. Even if you teach them to install updates, they might forget down the line, and a computer without security updates is not good news for anynone.
Perhaps you don't imagine LM as an OS targeted at this group, but I believe the number of these (potential) users is bigger than you might think.

(Bash script sounds like a good solution, though [perhaps "because" from your point of view:-)] it will be probably found by fewer people than a checkbox in the settings.)
I've set up my parents with LM on an old but quick laptop. Still, I have to manually install the updates every time I visit myself. I cannot teach them that. They have Thunderbird and Firefox with Bookmarks on the desktop and they know how to use it to some extend.

I cannot teach them manual updates. It wouldn't work!

Also making updates prominent doesn't help. I tell them not to reboot anyway. Just put the laptop in standby so they can use it quicker and don't need to type the login password. That way the "make updates more prominent" trick wouldn't work since there are no reboots (only when I do it).

Also making updates more prominent doesn't help. They wouldn't manage to install them manually. Also they always forget the login password. I had set up autologin but it leads to strange bugs (some dialogs popping up which freaks them out).

Anyway. Children and old people NEED automatic updates. Unless you want to hover over them all the time and install updates manually. But I guess it is too much to ask to have a UI checkbox to activate Level 1 & 2 updates and security fixes to be installed automatically. A huge part of the LM user community hates children and old people ;)

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Re: Please make automatic updates user-friendly

Post by Dyfi » Thu Aug 13, 2015 8:45 am

Karsti quoted:

A huge part of the LM user community hates children and old people ;)
Utter twoddle (and that is being very polite)

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Re: Please make automatic updates user-friendly

Post by karsti » Thu Aug 13, 2015 8:53 pm

Dyfi wrote:
Karsti quoted:

A huge part of the LM user community hates children and old people ;)
Utter twoddle (and that is being very polite)
There was a winking emoticon at the end. I was just making a joke!

Still...there many people out there - old people most of all - who would greatly benefit from automatic updates. Manual updates are not just a hassle for them but probably a security risk since they don't install them.

I set up LM for old people. And yes, I showed them several times how to update. Still, when I visit them after a few month I need to install updates a few month worth. They forgot to do it and forgot how to do it.

Still, they greatly benefit from being able to do the most basic browsing and most basic Email stuff. They need computers. But they also need automatic updates!

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Re: Please make automatic updates user-friendly

Post by Habitual » Fri Aug 14, 2015 9:16 am

karsti wrote:I was just making a joke!

Wasn't funny.
What's "Plan B"?

Sounds to me, like a weekly email/newsletter to such persons would be prudent and beneficial.
Last edited by Habitual on Fri Aug 14, 2015 2:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Please make automatic updates user-friendly

Post by Dyfi » Fri Aug 14, 2015 9:50 am

The time Karsti has spent on this post could have been more productive to teach himself a little about writing a script to achieve his automatic updates. All the info is out there for someone prepared to put the time in.

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Re: Please make automatic updates user-friendly

Post by xenopeek » Mon Aug 17, 2015 5:49 am

As this question comes up from time to time, I've written a new tutorial on how to do automatic upgrades: http://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=202715

On a Debian Jessie install I did recently I did set up unattended-upgrades. That was on a computer without need for proprietary drivers. I'm not sure I would have done the same with an Ubuntu (less stable) based install or on a computer needing proprietary drivers; I might have just enabled security upgrades.

I agree with others here you should give thought as to whether you really need this, or reconfiguring Update Manager's interval from 30 minutes to say once a week would suffice. As to whether automatic upgrades should be possible to enable with one click, that's for the developers to consider.
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BluuzMoBeeL
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Re: Please make automatic updates user-friendly

Post by BluuzMoBeeL » Thu Aug 20, 2015 12:08 pm

Well, I;m "nuubee" and after reading this, I went to update manager, types in my password and it was all over in
about a minute or 2.

Wonderful

Perfect


Thanks

RichardFreeman
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Re: Please make automatic updates user-friendly

Post by RichardFreeman » Mon Aug 31, 2015 4:15 pm

Pjotr wrote:updates should always be installed *consciously*.
Well, there is no need for it to be hidden...
Of course, there is the possibility of making the update manager pop up just once a month and kindly ask the user for allowance to perform some selected (level 1/2) updates in the background by now entering the password. (kind of like the Windows Updater which asks if you want to shut down your PC now or in 30 minutes)

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Re: Please make automatic updates user-friendly

Post by thobin » Wed Nov 04, 2015 6:03 pm

Still suffering from the side effects of a weeks worth of updates to my latest Windows 7 install, roughly a year and a half ago, when I said to myself there has got to be a better way. Behold Linux (Mint in particular)!

I have found the update interface of Mint so beautiful and painless. I no longer go into the cold shakes and drop into the fetal position every Tuesday. I love the idea of having complete control over the process and I would never dream of turning on an automatic update. I completely agree that we should get out of the WinSuck way of thinking! However from freedom comes elegance, give people the choice. I understand all the arguments why not to, all great points and I agree. From chaos and catastrophe comes pain, and from pain comes education and understanding. Let them learn, stop saving them from themselves.

Choice is always preferable, no choice is how Microsoft and Apple do things, not Linux.

In the last ten minutes that I was reading this thread, and typing my response, this work computer that i'm on that's running Win 7 has annoyingly prompted me three times that its going to shut my computer down to run updates! and I cant turn it off because i'm not the admin, now when it shuts down I wont be able to do my work, not that I was anyway because i'm reading about Linux. :)

Oh and the title of the tread is incorrectly written I have never seen a more painless and user friendly update system, its just different.

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Re: Please make automatic updates user-friendly

Post by Radish » Fri Nov 20, 2015 5:09 pm

Definitely don't make updates automatic, not by opting-in or otherwise. You should see Windows forums now crowded with paranoid people in sheer dread of Microsoft's activities with updates now that they are pushing Windows 10. This is one of the main reasons why I've now decided to transfer from Windows to Mint - no way do I want to be put through the kinds of stunts Microsoft is now pulling with their updates.

Keep updates as they are just now - things are fine and the user has control. Really, I mean, clicking a couple of times to do updates is hardly an onerous task.
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Re: Please make automatic updates user-friendly

Post by reddot » Thu Nov 26, 2015 2:31 am

i completely disagree with you on auto-update. i review every update i install, dont allow level 4 or 5, but security update yes. even on windows i would like to know just what exactly does a update do, i quit after windows xp, used a little windows 7 and hated it, the way it updates is pathetic by default, i only allow my pc to download but not install. the auto update in win10 is a nightmare if you cant stop auto updates. i need stability, to this date i have not ignored any updates.
Dyfi wrote:Automatic updates - definitely a no no. I agree with Pjotr. You should control your own PC, not someone sending updates in the background. You may not be aware of what is happening and power off in the middle of downloading or upgrading.
i agree, like a driver update could be disastrous, and time consuming to fix, unnecessary event.

but auto update should never be default regardless of OS, just my opinion. but.. having options is why i use linux, to have something destructive in the update manager like auto-update, is a no no

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Re: Please make automatic updates user-friendly

Post by xdicey » Sun Jan 31, 2016 1:30 am

No auto updates please. That would be like a tsunami; there's no spigot to safely shut it off.
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Re: Please make automatic updates user-friendly

Post by 5bkZ » Tue Jul 03, 2018 5:28 am

I think the best thing is an optional reminder.
I wanted to see alert every week and on positive answer open mintUpdate window.

Instructions:
  • add to the end of ~/.bashrc the line:

    Code: Select all

    xhost local:$USER > /dev/null
  • create script file:

    Code: Select all

    touch ~/.updateReminder.sh;
    chmod +x ~/.updateReminder.sh
    nano ~/.updateReminder.sh
  • edit script:

    Code: Select all

    #!/bin/bash
    
    export DISPLAY=:0
    
    zenity --question --display=:0.0 --text "Do you want to check for updates?" --ok-label "Yes, let's see" --cancel-label "No, another time"; case $? in    0) echo "Yes"; mintupdate;   ;;    1) echo "No";   ;;    *) echo "Timeout";   ;;  esac
    
  • schedule script:

    Code: Select all

    sudo crontab -e
    to remind every Saturday at 21:00 append the line (replace USER with your username):

    Code: Select all

    0 21 * * 6 /home/USER/.updateReminder.sh
    

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Re: Please make automatic updates user-friendly

Post by Moem » Tue Jul 03, 2018 5:32 am

Mint 19 has auto-updates. This clearly demonstrates why we should not revive old topics, and why this is a forum rule. :wink:
Locking the topic now so it can rest in peace!
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