Build system restore into update manager

Write suggestions and new ideas in here
More ideas here http://community.linuxmint.com/idea/welcome
Forum rules
  • Only post ideas here that are specifically about the Linux Mint distribution or its websites.
  • So that developers and users from any distribution can discuss ideas in one place, post ideas about improving software to the collaboration website for that software instead.
Post Reply
User avatar
MintBean
Level 9
Level 9
Posts: 2969
Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2015 6:54 am
Location: Blighty

Build system restore into update manager

Post by MintBean » Mon Apr 02, 2018 5:18 pm

How about a setting in update manager that will launch a Timeshift backup for you when pulling the trigger on an update? Would save a few clicks and wouldn't be too hard to implement I imagine, plus it promotes good practices.

User avatar
smurphos
Level 7
Level 7
Posts: 1641
Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2014 12:18 am
Location: Britisher...

Re: Build system restore into update manager

Post by smurphos » Tue Apr 03, 2018 12:14 am

It could slow the update process down considerably depending on how out of date the last snapshot is.

User avatar
xenopeek
Level 24
Level 24
Posts: 22918
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2011 3:58 am
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Build system restore into update manager

Post by xenopeek » Wed Apr 04, 2018 10:09 am

There's no real need to make a snapshot immediately preceding installation of updates, as it's only a snapshot of the operating system and timeshift automatically does daily backups. If you need to roll back you can roll back to a snapshot earlier on the same or previous day if it wasn't made today yet.
Image

Cosmo.
Level 23
Level 23
Posts: 17829
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2014 7:34 am

Re: Build system restore into update manager

Post by Cosmo. » Wed Apr 04, 2018 4:42 pm

smurphos wrote:
Tue Apr 03, 2018 12:14 am
It could slow the update process down considerably depending on how out of date the last snapshot is.
Agreed. But this objection would not be true, if there would be a direct link to TS in the Update Manager (in the toolbar or in the edit menu). In this case it is a user decision to click it or not. There might be the case, that there have been a number of system changes on that day and the user wants to ensure, that they are kept, if he later needs to restore a snapshot. Without opening TS it is impossible to say, when the latest snapshot has been created. The other problem is, that TS resides because of the alphabetical order far low in the administration menu and not easy to reach; mostly the menu has to get scrolled. So a direct link from the Update Manager makes sense. Most likely this link would be far more often used than the link to the software sources.

Nevertheless I read on another place, that Clem has rejected this suggestion already. So there is not much hope. As a workaround I have added (in Cinnamon) TS to the favorites in the menu and can reach it quickly. If I open the edit menu in the update manager or the main menu of the system does not make a big difference.

User avatar
smurphos
Level 7
Level 7
Posts: 1641
Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2014 12:18 am
Location: Britisher...

Re: Build system restore into update manager

Post by smurphos » Wed Apr 04, 2018 11:57 pm

I've just gone for belt and braces scheduled snapshots - I keep 2 monthly, 3 weekly, 3 daily and 3 boot snapshots. I like the idea of a button the launch timeshift from the GUI though. Shame Clem won't go for it.

Cosmo.
Level 23
Level 23
Posts: 17829
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2014 7:34 am

Re: Build system restore into update manager

Post by Cosmo. » Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:27 am

I just have read this comment by Clem and to my understanding he seems to change his mind.

Cosmo.
Level 23
Level 23
Posts: 17829
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2014 7:34 am

Re: Build system restore into update manager

Post by Cosmo. » Thu Apr 05, 2018 7:23 am

In the past many users had a big problem: Shall I keep my system stable and omit the higher level security updates - a bad attempt - or shall I keep my system secure and accept the risk, that the system might cease to work at some day? Actually a good OS should be both: Secure and stable. I cannot imagine, that only one person would contradict to that.

With having TimeShift (TS) on board one could think about, if the existing level system of the Update Manager (UM) is still relevant. With having TS snapshots everything can get reverted. Seeing, that many users have trouble with understanding the system of UM and that too many users avoid the higher levels (3 & 4 as given since LM 18.2), me thinks, that it is time, to rethink the level system completely. Especially there is the problem, that users are confused, that security updates are in level 3 or 4 and are confused, because they misunderstand, that those levels should get avoided, what obviously will implement security leaks into the system.

My current idea - surely at the moment only a starting point for further considerations, not yet the final solution - is, that UM has just 2 sections: first section for security updates and the second section for the rest. Possibly a third section to divide the second section between applications and other things like drivers, libraries and such, where the risk for regressions is surely greater (especially graphic drivers). This would remove the above described confusion on user's side completely. - In addition the troublesome update policy thing would get superfluous. No more non-functional UM, because users with a low screen resolution don't know how to proceed, because they do not find the OK button to close this badly designed window.

In addition and enhancement to that it would be ideal, if the Mint installer would automatically create a second system with minimal content. There TS would have to be installed and perhaps very few other things. With having this available via multiboot reverting a non bootable system to the previous state would be even quicker and easier than booting a live system.

In further addition it is important, that Mint keeps the TS package in its own sources up to date. At now Mint still offers TS 17.11, whereas Tony George has since some time removed a number of bugs and has TS 18.4 available. This is the less understandable, as Clem himself had opened in the TS repository at Github an issue (in other words: he reported a bug), and Tony had fixed this. I don't get it why Clem wants to have a bug got fixed but hides the available fix for the Mint users (as long as they don't add Tony's ppa to the sources). If he cannot ensure to keep TS in the Mint sources up to date than he should consider to provide the ppa in Mint by default.

I admit, that there is one con against my idea: There are users, who do not have the needed space for the TS snapshots and cannot raise the money for an external drive. On the other hand an external drive with say about 50 to 100 GB does not cost riches, so they are the minority.

Cosmo.
Level 23
Level 23
Posts: 17829
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2014 7:34 am

Re: Build system restore into update manager

Post by Cosmo. » Sat Apr 07, 2018 9:57 am

This thread demonstrates, why a direct link from UM to TS would be so helpful. There is a user, where TS stopped 10 days ago creating schedule snapshots (seems to be solved now). Let us assume, that a user before applying potential critical updates thinks "Hey I have TS and it does a daily snapshot", so I can simply proceed and in case of problems revert to the yesterday state. If he now really needs the snapshot from yesterday and now finds himself in the same situation and has to revert to a 10 days old state - not difficult to imagine, how he would feel. Creating such a direct link to TS (at best in the UM toolbar) cannot be so demanding, that the progress for LM 19 would get a remarkable delay.

Post Reply

Return to “Suggestions & New Ideas”