Suggestion: Add minimal install option

Write suggestions and new ideas in here
More ideas here http://community.linuxmint.com/idea/welcome
Forum rules
  • Only post ideas here that are specifically about the Linux Mint distribution or its websites.
  • So that developers and users from any distribution can discuss ideas in one place, post ideas about improving software to the collaboration website for that software instead.
DiegoAzeta
Level 1
Level 1
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2018 4:43 pm

Suggestion: Add minimal install option

Post by DiegoAzeta » Tue Sep 04, 2018 1:19 pm

Peppermint 9 now has a "minimal install" option that makes it easier for the user to independently install the specific apps s/he desires after the basic OS is up and running. Very helpful. Linux Mint should include this option as well.

User avatar
catweazel
Level 18
Level 18
Posts: 8996
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2012 9:44 pm
Location: Australian Antarctic Territory

Re: Suggestion: Add minimal install option

Post by catweazel » Wed Sep 05, 2018 1:55 am

DiegoAzeta wrote:
Tue Sep 04, 2018 1:19 pm
Linux Mint should include this option as well.
-1

Mint pre-installs applications precisely because people use them.
¡uʍop ǝpısdn sı buıɥʇʎɹǝʌǝ os ɐıןɐɹʇsnɐ ɯoɹɟ ɯ,ı

Mik3e
Level 4
Level 4
Posts: 209
Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2011 2:54 pm

Re: Suggestion: Add minimal install option

Post by Mik3e » Wed Sep 05, 2018 5:19 pm

I agree with the suggestion. Applications are pre-installed because SOME people use them. Most of the pre-installed apps are useless to me so I have an apt command to install about 25 applications that I use. I know the extra apps don't bother the computer, but they sure slow me down when I wade through them looking for the things I need.

Absent a minimal install, it would be useful to have a list of packages that can safely be purged.

Mike

User avatar
Moem
Level 19
Level 19
Posts: 9018
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2015 9:14 am
Location: The Netherlands
Contact:

Re: Suggestion: Add minimal install option

Post by Moem » Wed Sep 05, 2018 5:34 pm

Mik3e wrote:
Wed Sep 05, 2018 5:19 pm
I know the extra apps don't bother the computer, but they sure slow me down when I wade through them looking for the things I need.
Depending on which DE you're using, it's probably really easy to hide them from the menu.
Image

If your issue is solved, kindly indicate that by editing the first post in the topic, and adding [SOLVED] to the title. Thanks!

gm10
Level 18
Level 18
Posts: 8237
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:11 pm

Re: Suggestion: Add minimal install option

Post by gm10 » Wed Sep 05, 2018 5:52 pm

What you do and do not use is so subjective - e.g. I don't use Firefox but there's no way you can distribute the system without a pre-installed web browser - that I'm also against this suggestion. It's easier to just remove what you don't want afterwards. I have a post-installation script that handles that for me.
Last edited by gm10 on Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

Asusucks
Level 1
Level 1
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:31 am

Re: Suggestion: Add minimal install option

Post by Asusucks » Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:51 am

Good suggestion.

If they have time for it then there is no good reason not to have something like that.

User avatar
lsemmens
Level 8
Level 8
Posts: 2280
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2014 9:07 pm
Location: Rural South Australia

Re: Suggestion: Add minimal install option

Post by lsemmens » Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:15 am

I'm happy with the default of Browser/ Office suite and utilities, Typically you've just got to install these anyway, so it makes it a far quicker/easier solution to have them up front. Last time I installed Windwoes it took nearly two days to get to the same point as I can with Linux in less than an hour.
Kernel: 4.15.0-46-generic x86_64 bits
Desktop: Cinnamon 3.8.9
Distro: Linux Mint 19 Tara

Laptop HP-ProBook-470-G2 8Gb RAM SSD
Server AMD Phenom 9650 - GEForce 9400GT 6Gb RAM
+ three other Mint machines
Out of my mind - please leave a message

Asusucks
Level 1
Level 1
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:31 am

Re: Suggestion: Add minimal install option

Post by Asusucks » Wed Oct 17, 2018 11:24 am

I got this wrong. I thought OP was suggesting an option to chose what you want to install.

I imagined it like this: you click on "install mint" and then a box pops out where you can check/uncheck some apps and stuff you want/do not want to be installed.

His suggestion is ok also. It could be useful for more experienced users.

Schallaven
Level 2
Level 2
Posts: 89
Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2017 11:42 am

Re: Suggestion: Add minimal install option

Post by Schallaven » Thu Oct 18, 2018 9:51 am

From a support point of view: Extra options during install cause more questions, esp. for people who do not know exactly what they are doing. An option "Minimal install" will be attractive to click on simply because it suggests not doing "too much" and gives a "let's start simple"-feeling. Automatically, the other option becomes the one with the scary technicalities. Furthermore, exactly these persons will then complain here or on IRC about that there is no browser, codecs, office suite, etc. installed. "Why does Linux Mint not come with everything?" "What do you mean 'don't choose minimal install'? I have only 5gig free!!!!111" "This is crap."

And of course all the questions about what EXACTLY is the difference between minimal and full(?) install? "Do I need these so-called 'browsers' and 'codecs'?" "I am not sure if to choose 'minimal install' during installation. Can you help me? - Take 'full install'. - But does not 'minimal install' take less space?"

On the other side, I see the advantage of having such an option for experienced users. How about implementing it (if at all) as command line option to the installer? It could then exclude certain packages from installing or just popping up a dialog box at the respective point to choose packages. Oh, and then there needs to be a minimal-to-full-meta-package! :wink:
kittykernel - a cat-friendly, custom kernel manager for Linux Mint and other Debian derivates. Take a look or two here: Releases Github
Your argument is irrelephant - it's lacking elephants.

gm10
Level 18
Level 18
Posts: 8237
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:11 pm

Re: Suggestion: Add minimal install option

Post by gm10 » Thu Oct 18, 2018 9:57 am

Schallaven wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 9:51 am
On the other side, I see the advantage of having such an option for experienced users. How about implementing it (if at all) as command line option to the installer? It could then exclude certain packages from installing or just popping up a dialog box at the respective point to choose packages. Oh, and then there needs to be a minimal-to-full-meta-package! :wink:
I'd be ok with the command line option, I think that dialog box would probably add needless complexity though, advanced users can add what they need after installation. On the other hand, an advanced user can just as well remove what they don't need after installation, so I still don't think it's strictly needed. Would help with installing to limited storage space though.

User avatar
mahmutelmas06
Level 1
Level 1
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2018 8:21 am

Re: Suggestion: Add minimal install option

Post by mahmutelmas06 » Sun Nov 04, 2018 8:34 am

gm10 wrote:
Wed Sep 05, 2018 5:52 pm
What you do and do not use is so subjective - e.g. I don't use Firefox but there's no way you can distribute the system without a pre-installed web browser - that I'm also against this suggestion. It's easier to just remove what you don't want afterwards. I have a post-installation script that handles that for me.
I have replied this in another post but i would likte reply also here while there is 2 topic for the same idea.

There could be an option for "Selective Install" or "Full installation" modes in installer. Than we can setup linux mint how we want.
Image

JSpeed
Level 1
Level 1
Posts: 22
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2016 8:06 pm

Re: Suggestion: Add minimal install option

Post by JSpeed » Fri Feb 01, 2019 10:55 pm

gm10 wrote:
Wed Sep 05, 2018 5:52 pm
What you do and do not use is so subjective - e.g. I don't use Firefox but there's no way you can distribute the system without a pre-installed web browser - that I'm also against this suggestion. It's easier to just remove what you don't want afterwards. I have a post-installation script that handles that for me.
That's the beauty of Linux. You can get away without having a pre-installed browser.

Code: Select all

apt install chromium-browser
for advanced users only.

Also, I have removed some stuff I don't use after install and it broke the OS. Both with Mint and Raspbian (which has a minimal install that doesn't come with a desktop environment).
And that brings up another question. Is the desktop "optional" software?

Code: Select all

apt install cinnamon-desktop-environment
This all starts getting very grey and very fuzzy very fast.

I do like the part about check boxes to install other software, but that's a lot of boxes to check and uncheck.

gm10
Level 18
Level 18
Posts: 8237
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:11 pm

Re: Suggestion: Add minimal install option

Post by gm10 » Sat Feb 02, 2019 1:00 am

JSpeed wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 10:55 pm
This all starts getting very grey and very fuzzy very fast.
No, it doesn't, you are simply being absurd.

syndicoon
Level 1
Level 1
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2018 2:26 pm

Re: Suggestion: Add minimal install option

Post by syndicoon » Mon Feb 04, 2019 9:58 am

mahmutelmas06 wrote:
Sun Nov 04, 2018 8:34 am
....
There could be an option for "Selective Install" or "Full installation" modes in installer. Than we can setup linux mint how we want.
There used to be that option in SuSE Linux before Novell bought them. It was part of the YAST tool. This was the feature that got me to give up Windows and use Linux in 2005. You could select between server and desktop then drill down further to fine-tune what was installed to get exactly what you wanted. I haven't used SuSE in a long time so I don't know if they still use that method. Ubuntu offers a minimal install option but I cannot figure out what it actually does. The YAST tool made that easy to see.
That said, it is easy to say "just use the YAST tool in Linux Mint", it is a major pain in the butt for a programmer to make it happen.
Also, the YAST tool could be confusing for newbies. Perhaps another way to make this work would be to have the choice "easy install - expert install" and under the expert install have a menu selection screen to select what you want.
A newbie wouldn't know one app from another let alone which to select unless there were some useful descriptions added to make it clear what each app does.
:wink:

gm10
Level 18
Level 18
Posts: 8237
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:11 pm

Re: Suggestion: Add minimal install option

Post by gm10 » Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:03 am

syndicoon wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 9:58 am
Ubuntu offers a minimal install option but I cannot figure out what it actually does.
It does a regular (full) install and then, after it's done, it uninstalls these packages again (list from Ubuntu 18.04):

Code: Select all

thunderbird
transmission-gtk
gnome-todo
baobab
rhythmbox
cheese
vino
shotwell
totem
usb-creator-gtk
deja-dup
gnome-calendar
remmina
simple-scan
thunderbird-gnome-support
aisleriot
gnome-mahjongg
gnome-mines
gnome-sudoku
branding-ubuntu
libreoffice-style-breeze
libreoffice-gnome
libreoffice-writer
libreoffice-calc
libreoffice-impress
libreoffice-math
libreoffice-ogltrans
libreoffice-pdfimport
example-content
ubuntu-web-launchers
libreoffice-l10n-en-gb
libreoffice-l10n-es
libreoffice-l10n-zh-cn
libreoffice-l10n-zh-tw
libreoffice-l10n-pt
libreoffice-l10n-pt-br
libreoffice-l10n-de
libreoffice-l10n-fr
libreoffice-l10n-it
libreoffice-l10n-ru
libreoffice-l10n-en-za
libreoffice-help-en-gb
libreoffice-help-es
libreoffice-help-zh-cn
libreoffice-help-zh-tw
libreoffice-help-pt
libreoffice-help-pt-br
libreoffice-help-de
libreoffice-help-fr
libreoffice-help-it
libreoffice-help-ru
libreoffice-help-en-us
thunderbird-locale-en
thunderbird-locale-en-gb
thunderbird-locale-en-us
thunderbird-locale-es
thunderbird-locale-es-ar
thunderbird-locale-es-es
thunderbird-locale-zh-cn
thunderbird-locale-zh-hans
thunderbird-locale-zh-hant
thunderbird-locale-zh-tw
thunderbird-locale-pt
thunderbird-locale-pt-br
thunderbird-locale-pt-pt
thunderbird-locale-de
thunderbird-locale-fr
thunderbird-locale-it
thunderbird-locale-ru
gir1.2-rb-3.0
gir1.2-totem-1.0
gir1.2-totemplparser-1.0
guile-2.0-libs
libabw-0.1-1
libavahi-ui-gtk3-0
libdmapsharing-3.0-2
libexttextcat-2.0-0
libexttextcat-data
libfreehand-0.1-1
libgnome-games-support-1-3
libgnome-games-support-common
libgom-1.0-0
libgrilo-0.3-0
liblangtag-common
liblangtag1
libmessaging-menu0
libmhash2
libminiupnpc10
libmwaw-0.3-3
libmythes-1.2-0
libnatpmp1
libneon27-gnutls
liborcus-0.13-0
libpagemaker-0.0-0
librdf0
libreoffice-avmedia-backend-gstreamer
libreoffice-base-core
libreoffice-common
libreoffice-core
libreoffice-draw
libreoffice-gtk3
libreoffice-style-elementary
libreoffice-style-galaxy
libreoffice-style-tango
libraptor2-0
librasqal3
librevenge-0.0-0
librhythmbox-core10
libtotem0
libvisio-0.1-1
libwpd-0.10-10
libwpg-0.3-3
libwps-0.4-4
libyajl2
python3-uno
rhythmbox-data
rhythmbox-plugin-alternative-toolbar
rhythmbox-plugins
remmina-common
remmina-plugin-rdp
remmina-plugin-secret
remmina-plugin-vnc
duplicity
seahorse-daemon
shotwell-common
totem-common
totem-plugins
transmission-common
cheese-common
gnome-todo-common
libgnome-todo
gnome-video-effects
libcheese-gtk25
libcheese8
uno-libs3
ure
zeitgeist-core
hunspell-de-at-frami
hunspell-de-ch-frami
hunspell-de-de-frami
hunspell-en-au
hunspell-en-ca
hunspell-en-gb
hunspell-en-za
hunspell-es
hunspell-fr
hunspell-fr-classical
hunspell-it
hunspell-pt-br
hunspell-pt-pt
hunspell-ru
hyphen-de
hyphen-en-ca
hyphen-en-gb
hyphen-en-us
hyphen-fr
hyphen-hr
hyphen-it
hyphen-pl
hyphen-pt-br
hyphen-pt-pt
hyphen-ru
mythes-de
mythes-de-ch
mythes-en-au
mythes-en-us
mythes-fr
mythes-it
mythes-pt-pt
mythes-ru
Slap an apt purge in front of that list and you can turn a regular install into a minimal one after the fact, it's the same thing. As I said above, it's nothing an experienced user couldn't do, anyway. You're not even gaining time since it's doing a full install first. That's why I'm not convinced that it makes any difference whether this option is offered at install time or whether you remove some packages you don't need later.

User avatar
Acewiza
Level 3
Level 3
Posts: 100
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2016 12:42 pm

Re: Suggestion: Add minimal install option

Post by Acewiza » Mon Feb 04, 2019 12:26 pm

People use distros like Ubuntu and Mint because they just want an easy install that mimics Windoze in many ways so they can jump on and start using it productively right away. Most if not all the distros beyond basic Redhat and Debian never even cross the mind of experts setting up minimal installs for servers and specialized applications.

syndicoon
Level 1
Level 1
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2018 2:26 pm

Re: Suggestion: Add minimal install option

Post by syndicoon » Thu May 02, 2019 3:42 pm

gm10 wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:03 am
syndicoon wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 9:58 am
Ubuntu offers a minimal install option but I cannot figure out what it actually does.
It does a regular (full) install and then, after it's done, it uninstalls these packages again (list from Ubuntu 18.04):
That is a total waste of time. As said earlier, the YAST tool made sense. You didn't install more than what you needed without the "Install then uninstall" silliness. Just pick what you want, then end up with a working customized system.

Too bad it's too hard to port YAST over to Linux Mint. :wink:
However, since the team was able to develop a new desktop (cinnamon) from Gnome, I fail to see why they can't create an installer from YAST that allows for customization up front. Yes, it will take time, but in the end, it will make Mint that much better.

All the same, I still love my Linux Mint.

gm10
Level 18
Level 18
Posts: 8237
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:11 pm

Re: Suggestion: Add minimal install option

Post by gm10 » Thu May 02, 2019 3:52 pm

syndicoon wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 3:42 pm
However, since the team was able to develop a new desktop (cinnamon) from Gnome, I fail to see why they can't create an installer from YAST that allows for customization up front. Yes, it will take time, but in the end, it will make Mint that much better.
No doubt it could be done, question is whether you couldn't find something better to do with the time it would cost. I think we all made clear where each of us stand on that question already. Anyway, not my business anymore.

cjoliprsf
Level 1
Level 1
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Aug 02, 2019 12:29 am

Re: Suggestion: Add minimal install option

Post by cjoliprsf » Fri Aug 02, 2019 12:53 am

I would also be in favor of a "minimal install option", and to the option of installing only the applications that are really needed by the user.

I have recently used Q4OS for making a virtual machine running linux software in a Windows host. They have a very clever installation routine that lets the user select between a bare bone system, a basic system with all libraries but no applications, and as a third choice a fully installed system with Libre Office, Gimp, and so on. For such an system that I was building (i.e. a virtual machine) it is very useful to be able to minimise the footprint of the installed OS. That fully installed VM was just 2Gigs disk size. Doing the same with Mint would produce a 5 or 6 Gigs disk.

And if for no other reason, let's consider the environmental issue:
A complete install of Mint means there will be a number of installed programs the user will never use. Most users will not bother uninstalling these unused programs. However, these will get installed and updated a number of times during the life of the computer. All of this does take its toll - energy, resources and so on. Environmentally, this is NOT free.

Computer people tend to think that memory is cheap, huge hard drives are becoming the norm, Internet if incredibly fast, so why worry? Really, maybe we should start to worry and try to reduce our footprint...

User avatar
mingle
Level 3
Level 3
Posts: 135
Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 9:58 pm

Re: Suggestion: Add minimal install option

Post by mingle » Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:52 am

Apologies for cross-posting, but there seems to be a couple of threads requesting a similar thing...

I'd love a minimal install, but for the moment I have to manual remove stuff. I have a 'fully-featured' Linux Mint install, but I also I have a requirement for a very trimmed-down/bare-bones install for some VMs I use, so get rid of pretty much all the pre-installed apps. It takes me a good hour, which is a bloody long time imo...

All I need in these cases is the networking functionality and graphical desktop - that's it.

All the extras just take use storage space, add clutter and also introduce possible (though not necessarily probable) vectors for malicious code.

I run Mint xfce and after an install (no 3rd party add-ons), I use synaptic to remove all the apps found under the whisker menu, with the exception of a few of the accessories (calculator, catfish search, etc).

I also get rid of jre, the printing sub-system, all image and PDF-viewing/decoding/processing options, foreign-language libraries, dictionaries and help-files and probably a bunch of other stuff I've forgot to mention.

I've never had any issues with update manager/synaptic complaining about missing/broken dependencies.

When I first started doing this type of system 'cleanup', I'd do a reboot and an update-manager refresh after the removal of any major software component and never hit any snags.

Cheers,

Mike.

Post Reply

Return to “Suggestions & New Ideas”