Suggestion - LinuMint Installer

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makh
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Suggestion - LinuMint Installer

Post by makh » Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:09 am

Hi

I gave a test on the Installer of LinuxMint 19, Cinnamon Version.

I hope my points can make a difference for the Linux Mint!

I tested within a virtualbox.

A. I found this issue: the installer should have 4 partitioning options, along with the current ones:

1. Auto helper for single OS boot
2. Auto helper for dual/multi booting
3. Manual (existing one seems to be fine)
4. Manual: It doesnt offer to setup GPT or other partition tables. It forces to a default one. (Usually, in linux distros: If using the GPT mode, the normal partitioning in Linux doesn’t offer to configure and automatically make the bios partition and it’s backup partition automatically. This isn’t easy for Linux Newbie or even an intermediate user.)
5. LVM options: I dont use them, so no comments

B. It will be really fantastic, if there’s a direct installer more right at start, rather then a live mode only.

I hope the LinuxMint developers can do something about it.

Thank you

gm10
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Re: Suggestion - LinuMint Installer

Post by gm10 » Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:24 am

makh wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:09 am
4. Manual: It doesnt offer to setup GPT or other partition tables. It forces to a default one. (Usually, in linux distros: If using the GPT mode, the normal partitioning in Linux doesn’t offer to configure and automatically make the bios partition and it’s backup partition automatically. This isn’t easy for Linux Newbie or even an intermediate user.)
Because that is a non-standard and certainly not recommended way of setting up your system. GPT goes with UEFI, and that needs no bios partitions. If you're booting in BIOS mode than MBR is usually the way you should go. I have no idea what backup partitions you are talking about, such a thing is certainly not required for anything.

The automatic modes already set up all the partitions you need, so strong -1 for this suggestion that I do not believe you have properly thought through.

makh
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Re: Suggestion - LinuMint Installer

Post by makh » Fri Sep 14, 2018 12:16 pm

gm10 wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:24 am
...
Hi
Please see:
http://www.rodsbooks.com/gdisk/advice.html
Thankyou

gm10
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Re: Suggestion - LinuMint Installer

Post by gm10 » Fri Sep 14, 2018 12:30 pm

See here: http://google.com?q=partitioning

About as relevant. If you want to say something, say it, don't just link to random walls of text, ain't nobody got time for that.

makh
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Re: Suggestion - LinuMint Installer

Post by makh » Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:13 pm

gm10 wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 12:30 pm
See here: http://google.com?q=partitioning

About as relevant. If you want to say something, say it, don't just link to random walls of text, ain't nobody got time for that.
Hi
wrt link:
"On BIOS-based systems, a BIOS Boot Partition (GPT fdisk code EF02) plays a role that's similar in some ways to the ESP. The BIOS Boot Partition can hold a second-stage boot loader for GRUB 2. This is helpful because on an MBR disk, GRUB 2 hides data in the otherwise unused and unallocated space between the MBR and the start of the first primary partition. This unallocated and unused space may not exist on a GPT disk, so another place is needed to store the data. If you're in doubt, go ahead and create a small BIOS Boot Partition of about 100 KiB to 1 MiB. At worst, it'll consume a small amount of disk space."
... in my testings, gpt partitions fail to boot with grub2, if these two additional partitions arent created.

Thankyou

gm10
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Re: Suggestion - LinuMint Installer

Post by gm10 » Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:24 pm

makh wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:13 pm
"On BIOS-based systems
... in my testings, gpt partitions fail to boot with grub2, if these two additional partitions arent created.
Entirely correct, which is why I already said:
gm10 wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:24 am
Because that is a non-standard and certainly not recommended way of setting up your system. GPT goes with UEFI, and that needs no bios partitions. If you're booting in BIOS mode than MBR is usually the way you should go.
You are trying to set your system up in a way that it prone to lead to problems, as you noticed. That's why I disagreed to make this an option in the installer. Use UEFI if you want GPT. As far as I recall, Windows won't even boot off a GPT disk if you're not in UEFI mode, that's how not recommended this is.

makh
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Re: Suggestion - LinuMint Installer

Post by makh » Sat Sep 15, 2018 7:50 am

Dear gm10:
It is nice to know your opinion, but GPT seems to be a good option.
Nevertheless, people may be dual booting with other linux, rather then windows.

Thankyou

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catweazel
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Re: Suggestion - LinuMint Installer

Post by catweazel » Sat Sep 15, 2018 7:56 am

gm10 wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:24 am
Because that is a non-standard and certainly not recommended way of setting up your system. GPT goes with UEFI, and that needs no bios partitions. If you're booting in BIOS mode than MBR is usually the way you should go.
Why? I don't see that as a hard and fast rule. I install without UEFI but use GPT partitions because I don't have to worry about a 4 partition limit in the future, if it's ever needed.

Code: Select all

~ $: sudo gdisk -l /dev/nvme0n1
GPT fdisk (gdisk) version 1.0.1

Partition table scan:
  MBR: protective
  BSD: not present
  APM: not present
  GPT: present

Found valid GPT with protective MBR; using GPT.
Disk /dev/nvme0n1: 488397168 sectors, 232.9 GiB
Logical sector size: 512 bytes
Disk identifier (GUID): 5158A95D-31D4-422D-9E79-20061F233828
Partition table holds up to 128 entries
First usable sector is 34, last usable sector is 488397134
Partitions will be aligned on 2048-sector boundaries
Total free space is 56643885 sectors (27.0 GiB)

Number  Start (sector)    End (sector)  Size       Code  Name
   1            2048        80193535   38.2 GiB    8300  
   3        80193536       431755263   167.6 GiB   8300  
¡uʍop ǝpısdn sı buıɥʇʎɹǝʌǝ os ɐıןɐɹʇsnɐ ɯoɹɟ ɯ,ı

gm10
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Re: Suggestion - LinuMint Installer

Post by gm10 » Sat Sep 15, 2018 8:13 am

catweazel wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 7:56 am
Why? I don't see that as a hard and fast rule. I install without UEFI but use GPT partitions because I don't have to worry about a 4 partition limit in the future, if it's ever needed.
No, of course it's no hard and fast rule, many people do that, but to quote from the link OP himself provided:

Code: Select all

Unfortunately, in practice, there are occasional BIOS/GPT quirks or even downright incompatibilities.
For this reason alone I don't think the installer should open that can of worms by proposing this as an option. There's always "Something else..." to do whatever you want, anyway, but I see no value in spending time developing this sort of semi-automatic mode he's desiring for a configuration that has known incompatibilities.

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catweazel
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Re: Suggestion - LinuMint Installer

Post by catweazel » Sat Sep 15, 2018 8:20 am

gm10 wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 8:13 am
For this reason alone I don't think the installer should open that can of worms by proposing this as an option. There's always "Something else..." to do whatever you want, anyway, but I see no value in spending time developing this sort of semi-automatic mode he's desiring for a configuration that has known incompatibilities.
Well, I fully agree with that.
¡uʍop ǝpısdn sı buıɥʇʎɹǝʌǝ os ɐıןɐɹʇsnɐ ɯoɹɟ ɯ,ı

makh
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Re: Suggestion - LinuMint Installer

Post by makh » Sat Sep 15, 2018 8:46 pm

gm10 wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 8:13 am
...
For this reason alone I don't think the installer should open that can of worms by proposing this as an option. ...
In software, if something is done by skills and common sense, then it doesnt opens can of worms! Users should be facilitated, ... look how Android captured the mobile market. And windows, as you mentioned, is over restricted in compatibility, for its competing desktop share.

Thankyou

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catweazel
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Re: Suggestion - LinuMint Installer

Post by catweazel » Sat Sep 15, 2018 9:43 pm

makh wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 8:46 pm
gm10 wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 8:13 am
...
For this reason alone I don't think the installer should open that can of worms by proposing this as an option. ...
In software, if something is done by skills and common sense, then it doesnt opens can of worms! Users should be facilitated, ...
I think you're missing a salient point. Here at forums.linuxmint.com, we assist people with technical issues as volunteers, and while there is a suggestions and ideas sub-forum, with very few exceptions, the devs don't post here or even read the forums, neither for looking for ideas nor for any other reason. If your idea has no benefit to the majority of Mint users then it's going to receive well-intended criticism, but at the end of the day, posting ideas here is futile. You need to contact the maintainers or developers of the particular software and argue your case to them, not to us.
¡uʍop ǝpısdn sı buıɥʇʎɹǝʌǝ os ɐıןɐɹʇsnɐ ɯoɹɟ ɯ,ı

gm10
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Re: Suggestion - LinuMint Installer

Post by gm10 » Sun Sep 16, 2018 3:35 am

^ what he said. And since Mint is using Ubuntu's installer the argument would have to be made to them.

However, they would certainly go through the same thought process that we went through here in evaluation your proposal, so maybe address that. Good luck. ;)

makh
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Re: Suggestion - LinuMint Installer

Post by makh » Sun Sep 16, 2018 4:58 am

Thankyou

makh
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Re: Suggestion - LinuMint Installer

Post by makh » Mon Oct 01, 2018 6:02 pm

Hi

Interestingly, the auto feature of GPT partitioner of GhostBSD installer has this feature set!

Thankyou

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