Suggestion for adding some apps

[msavic123]

Hello, i've been using Mint for about a year, and like it very much. It gets better and more mature with every release.
I have suggestions to bundle some apps and games (mostly gnome), to make a more rounded distribution.

These apps are:

Gnome:
Clocks
To Do
Contacts
Sound Recorder
Weather
Maps
Brasero

Chess
Mines
Sudoku
Mahjongg
Solitaire


Of course i know these are all available in the software center and can be easily downloaded, i also know that there are probably better alternatives, but i think these should be included in installation for several reasons:

1. The installation really looks better - a nicer out-of-the box experience, without adding much in size
2. Since mint already has some gnome apps, these new additions would fit beautifully, giving better consistency across bundled apps
3. They provide better offline functionality except for weather and maps (and i came across quite a few machines without internet access)
4. Some people really only use what's already preinstalled, and don't bother looking for anything else in software center.

I really can't think of many downsides to this, other than adding an insignifficant size to installation ISO.
Some other distros have some of these apps bundled, but not all of them.

Cheers

[Termy]

Bloat!

But seriously, that's not a bad idea. Some of those seem like standard programs to have in a fresh install of such a distribution.

[msavic123]

Well i wouldnt call it exactly bloat, they can be of use. But surely makes a nicer package.

[antikythera]

I would certainly call them bloat even though I use four of them very occasionally and would rather have the option to install them rather than having to uninstall most of them straight away. I already do that with Calendar and the evolution backend it depends on. I use Thunderbird so have no need for either Contacts or Calendar because it does both those things too.

[GNULinux]

its a mixed bag scenario for most of us
even though we dont use them much still these apps seem to be worth
not a bad idea dude

[msavic123]

I would certainly call them bloat even though I use four of them very occasionally and would rather have the option to install them rather than having to uninstall most of them straight away. I already do that with Calendar and the evolution backend it depends on. I use Thunderbird so have no need for either Contacts or Calendar because it does both those things too.

As i said, without internet access ther is no install option. And you still can uninstall
You have to remove some,just like you probably have to install some others. It's not about you or me, it's a nicer package to have those apps on install. As for me, i don't remove stuff that doesnt bother me, and can be useful from time to time.

[MarHaj]

Don't add them, please.

Basic "must have" apps that Mint provides are fine and I appreciate it.
If I need another ones, I can easily install them from some repository.
It is more comfortable then uninstalling garbage.

[Termy]

It is more comfortable then uninstalling garbage.

TBF, if you're as bothered by unnecessary stuff being installed as I, you're on the wrong distribution, because Mint comes with often 1-2GB of -- to many of us -- unnecessary packages. It's unlikely you'll need all the printer drivers, all of those library files for programming languages (like Python and Perl), any number of compatibility or alternative tools (like GNU printf), a kernel which comes with drivers for thousands (literally) of devices you don't nor likely will ever own, etc.

Oh, and you likely don't need all of the packages providing braille support, and if you're not going to use bluetooth, a printer, wireless networking, or a scanner, you won't be needing any of the very many packages supporting those devices. Then there are all the fonts, many of which aren't English in nature (Thau, Slavic, Japanese, Chinese, etc). Then there are the networking packages: do you need Samba support? Probably not, so that's a bunch of packages. Do you need the ancient and unsafe telnet? That's usually installed by default, these days.

The least goes freakishly on.

So in the grand scheme of things, a few more small utilities couldn't hurt, right?

[AndyMH]

Bloat, I think I use one of the items listed.

But on other comments - fonts - yes please, my setup script after a fresh install gets rid of the 'foreign' fonts I never use, surely this can be done on locale.

[Termy]

Bloat, I think I use one of the items listed.

But on other comments - fonts - yes please, my setup script after a fresh install gets rid of the 'foreign' fonts I never use, surely this can be done on locale.

You might find simplify-ubuntu useful. Hasn't been updated in a while, but it's still usable (I use it from time to time), just -- as always -- be careful when it comes to removing packages. What is marked as a dependency has changed over time since I wrote it, and depends on the distribution. It's an interactive tool to help you clear out commonly-unneeded packages. You could make a backup beforehand, in-case you say yes to the wrong thing.

[msavic123]

The last few comments that i read, that are against adding apps, state only their subjective opinions:

1. It's bloat - yes, arguably, for some of you.
2. You can easily install them if you need them - yes if you have internet access, or if you are bothered to look for other apps, which most users don't.
3. Apps themselves are in question here, i didn't talk about other potentially unneeded packages.

I'll state my, objective reasons why i think they should be added to distro, and it seems that some people didn't read what i wrote the first time, or they are just blinded by their selfishness (why add something, if I particularly don't need/want it?).

1. This adds a sens of completness, and better out-of-the-box experience. I will mention Windows here, without the need to compare systems, but rather to point out that they add such app to installation, along with some other garbage.

2. Without internet access, the apps provide functionality out of the box. They can still be uninstalled if anyone wants to. Still, they do not take up much space, and you don't have to touch them since they don't bother you. Apps that are included and you use them daily can be bloat for someone else - with this way of thinking should everything be removed then???

3. There is no need to point out ways apps can be obtained or removed, or if it's easier to install or uninstall them. It's not about what's easier for me or you, but i was pointing that distro would be more complete WITH them, regardless of what some think of the apps in question. Good distro should be consistent, versatile and efficient - and every single distro (including mint) has work to be done to achieve those goals.

4. This is not my personal request, just personal opinion . And suggestion how i think user experience would improve - and this would be step towards improvement.
So please, keep the discussion around these what i think are essential apps (and bloat for others). Essential apps are if they can perform a task, no other app currently on system would. And if you have no means of installing another app (no internet access - at the moment or at all), you would be somewhat handicapped (for example if you have to record some note, burn a disc, or set timers).
Everyone should bear in mint that distribution is 'for everyone' and not 'just for an individual'. Also bear in mind that there are machines without internet access and they cannot install apps - everyone can always uninstall something, and that some casual users only use what's present on installation.

Cheers

[Termy]

3. Apps themselves are in question here, i didn't talk about other potentially unneeded packages.

If you're referring to my previous post, I only mentioned those to make a related point to another user. I'm well aware this thread is about the given packages and nothing more. My saying "Bloat!" was in jest, hence the paragraph below it starting with "But seriously".

I did and still do agree that your suggested packages would make a nice addition to Linux Mint. They're the sort of things I used to expect or want from my old Windows installations, so to me it's expected that they be immediately available in a distribution like Linux Mint whose primary audience seems to be those coming from Windows.

I don't feel I'm being selfish, because that sort of goes against what Linux is about, which to me is freedom and choice.

How about a poll? I think that would be the most effective way to see what the community wants.

[msavic123]

If you're referring to my previous post, I only mentioned those to make a related point to another user. I'm well aware this thread is about the given packages and nothing more. My saying "Bloat!" was in jest, hence the paragraph below it starting with "But seriously".

No. I wasnt referring to you, someone else started talking about fonts and other packages.


I'll quote HarMaj. He wrote:

"Don't add them, please.

Basic "must have" apps that Mint provides are fine and I appreciate it.
If I need another ones, I can easily install them from some repository.
It is more comfortable then uninstalling garbage."

He disregarded all of my arguments.

I don't want to offend anyone, by selfishness i meant subjectivity ('i don't like it' or 'it's easier for me the other way around' attitudes).

[MarHaj]

I have read all supportive arguments.
Interesting opinions ane arguments.

For example argument:

because Mint comes with often 1-2GB of -- to many of us -- unnecessary packages.

suggests that

a few more small utilities couldn't hurt, right?

I think there are many examples around us (e.g. CO2, chemicals, diversity of the species to name a few, or on going "improvement" of MS Windows) that provide proofs that this approach led us into the wrong direction a lot of times.

So my previous vote still stands: Do not add them, please.

[Termy]

I must admit, when I added that last line you quoted there, I did have a tinge of regret, because that mindset often leads to undesirable changes. For example: Windows is already caked in telemetry, so one more couldn't hurt, right?

That said, I still feel that ultimately, a poll is the best way to come to a fair conclusion as to what the community as a whole wants. I say this as somebody who primarily doesn't use Mint, so I'm not especially invested. Does anyone have an idea how to set up a poll for this? Does this board have a poll feature? I've yet to see one.

[GNULinux]

I must admit, when I added that last line you quoted there, I did have a tinge of regret, because that mindset often leads to undesirable changes. For example: Windows is already caked in telemetry, so one more couldn't hurt, right?

That said, I still feel that ultimately, a poll is the best way to come to a fair conclusion as to what the community as a whole wants. I say this as somebody who primarily doesn't use Mint, so I'm not especially invested. Does anyone have an idea how to set up a poll for this? Does this board have a poll feature? I've yet to see one.

yes there is a poll feature in mint forums

[scjet45]

Mint needs to add theses system utilities:
efibootmgr, sysstat
back into it's iso's.
They use almost nothing for space.

[antikythera]

Mint needs to add theses system utilities:
efibootmgr, sysstat
back into it's iso's.
They use almost nothing for space.

+1 to efibootmgr, it's crazy it isn't there

[gittiest personITW]

Maybe there could be 2, 3, 4 or many versions of Mint so that everyone would be served.
Possibly we could use AI so that a special distribution was distributed just for you or me.

Until then, barebones (puppy linux type), minimal, leading all the way up to a distribution that would fit on a 512GB USB key and when in a few years 8TB USB keys (or the mid 2020s equivalent) come out, can include a few thousand other packages to bloat that up to fit.
Anyone got a few lifetimes to spare to arrange this?

Barebones would be a bit of a waste of time for most people as the first time a package was installed, another few hundred MB would need to be downloaded.
Minimal, maybe with 'essential' packages whatever they are and whoever would choose that. Maybe get a panel of developers with nothing better to do than argue whether sudoku should go into minimal or moderate or full?
If they made the wrong choice then of course we could opt for them to be taken out to the nearest wall and have death by firing squad and a new panel could be elected.
I think finally we are getting somewhere with this idea.