Keep Gimp in Mint 9!
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Keep Gimp in Mint 9!
I read that ubuntu 10.04 will drop Gimp from the default installation because of the following causes:
* the general user doesn't use it
* its user-interface is too complex
* it's an application for professionals
* desktop users just want to edit photos and they can do that in F-Spot
* it's a photoshop replacement and photoshop isn't included by default in Windows...
* it takes up room on the disc.
Read this article about this decision.
I hope that Linux Mint will not do this same mistake; I find this decision unbelievable...
* the general user doesn't use it
* its user-interface is too complex
* it's an application for professionals
* desktop users just want to edit photos and they can do that in F-Spot
* it's a photoshop replacement and photoshop isn't included by default in Windows...
* it takes up room on the disc.
Read this article about this decision.
I hope that Linux Mint will not do this same mistake; I find this decision unbelievable...
Re: Keep Gimp in Mint 9!
This only affect what's on the LiveCD. It doesn't mean Gimp will not be available for download from the repository.
Gimp takes up a lot of space so someone has to make the call of what to leave out if you keep Gimp in.
Gimp takes up a lot of space so someone has to make the call of what to leave out if you keep Gimp in.
Please add a [SOLVED] at the end of your original subject header if your question has been answered and solved.
Re: Keep Gimp in Mint 9!
These last three rationalizations are just sad excuses for exclusion..diego1188 wrote:
- * desktop users just want to edit photos and they can do that in F-Spot
* it's a photoshop replacement and photoshop isn't included by default in Windows...
* it takes up room on the disc.
- I use it (Gimp) for screenshot editing, before posts; possibly because it is just there. I could find something else, if I needed to and Gimp hadn't been installed
- Of course, these are all perfectly valid points - and i agree with most of them. I can't say that i do use the GIMP most of the time (though that is more because of its interface than its power) and it takes up room better used for other applications that will save me an "apt-get install".
desktop users just want to edit photos and they can do that in F-Spot
An attempt to define the common or standard user
- While that is sometimes good marketing, at least this what all the marketing companies are selling, define your buyer, it has relatively little to do with any single individual
Photoshop, that not everyone can afford or necessarily wants, is not a Microsoft product, although it is available for the windows OS
Does it matter to anyone what is or is not included by windows as a default
- Eula, and WGA, WPA modes (licensing)
- Anti virus
- Anti spyware
- Their brand of firewall
- Internet explorer as the browser
--particularly this one, a throwaway story if ever there is one, that item they should leave out, it is a non-reason; since it comes down to distributor's selection process; and fit probably isn't a real dilemma until near the end of such a process..
http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2009/11/gimp ... lucid.html
And I think this idea is indicating a bigger problem
- The Solution?
Although GIMP won't be installed by default, there was a short discussion on creating "Staff Picks" for the Ubuntu Software Centre. These would be applications highlighted and, in short, promoted as useful. The idea of creating "suites" was also brought up - such as a "Graphics Suite" which would be a one-click install yet give you GIMP, Inkscape, etc.
Re: Keep Gimp in Mint 9!
No big deal.
LinuxMint Main doesn't include Krusader for me,
nor seamonky, moc, streamripper, tilda, mc, testdisk, unetbootin, virtualbox,
nor all the dependencies of these. But they are all there in the repositories.
Remastersys will let you create your own installation CD. It is usually not worth the effort for me.
I just make a copy of my /var/cache/apt/archives after getting them
and carry it to any other box to update after install.
The CD is finite and Gimp, though useful, is not a priority of a majority of users. It's a bummer that it is important to you but for lack of space will not be included. I have a different list of priorities than the devs but they are considering a much wider audience than you or I.
They include most everything else I want and it all works as expected.
I've used lots of distros, but like the LinuxMint tool set because it works well out of the box.
LinuxMint Main doesn't include Krusader for me,
nor seamonky, moc, streamripper, tilda, mc, testdisk, unetbootin, virtualbox,
nor all the dependencies of these. But they are all there in the repositories.
Remastersys will let you create your own installation CD. It is usually not worth the effort for me.
I just make a copy of my /var/cache/apt/archives after getting them
and carry it to any other box to update after install.
The CD is finite and Gimp, though useful, is not a priority of a majority of users. It's a bummer that it is important to you but for lack of space will not be included. I have a different list of priorities than the devs but they are considering a much wider audience than you or I.
They include most everything else I want and it all works as expected.
I've used lots of distros, but like the LinuxMint tool set because it works well out of the box.
Re: Keep Gimp in Mint 9!
As a reasonably new Linux person, I am still just excited about the fact that, regardless of whether or not something is included in the LiveCD / default installation, it's incredibly free and easy to add any mainstream-developed open-source software. I'm not going to get hung up on whether Canonical decides it should be included in Ubuntu (or Clem + co. w/ Mint). I'm only 10 minutes away from having it anyway!diego1188 wrote:I read that ubuntu 10.04 will drop Gimp from the default installation because of the following causes:
Read this article about this decision.
I hope that Linux Mint will not do this same mistake; I find this decision unbelievable...
Re: Keep Gimp in Mint 9!
This decision, if it comes to fruition is just another example of Ubuntu turning itself into something more and more akin to Windows with every release, and especially the incremental "dumbing-down" of the release with every new release. It may soon come time for me to make my way back to Slackware or Arch.
Re: Keep Gimp in Mint 9!
Of course it will be available in the repositories; but Gimp is a masterpiece of free software, the only alternative to commercial photo-editing, left out from a standard installation.
Not to say that the standard user, if he just wants to crop an image, will be forced to "import" that image in F-Spot. This is nonsense.
It's not a matter of time needed to get the package installed; Gimp is one of the cornerstones of open source, to leave it out means that new users may not even get to know it exists, and continue thinking of PS as irreplaceable.
F-Spot for image manipulation! Really I can't believe it...
Not to say that the standard user, if he just wants to crop an image, will be forced to "import" that image in F-Spot. This is nonsense.
It's not a matter of time needed to get the package installed; Gimp is one of the cornerstones of open source, to leave it out means that new users may not even get to know it exists, and continue thinking of PS as irreplaceable.
F-Spot for image manipulation! Really I can't believe it...
Re: Keep Gimp in Mint 9!
I don't see what all the fuss is about? Gimp will still be available in the Repositories!!
The only reason that Ubuntu and possibly LinuxMint, would ever consider leaving Gimp out of the default install, would be to keep the "iso files" down to less than 700 Mb.
That way LinuxMint-9 .iso files would fit on a CD and not have to move up to a DVD, as many of the 'major' distros have. A CD-R will only hold 700 Mb of data.
Gimp and couple of the other large App. files take up a lot of space. Gimp is, almost, 14 Mb all by itself.
That's the only reason ... the Devs are actually looking out for us.
The only reason that Ubuntu and possibly LinuxMint, would ever consider leaving Gimp out of the default install, would be to keep the "iso files" down to less than 700 Mb.
That way LinuxMint-9 .iso files would fit on a CD and not have to move up to a DVD, as many of the 'major' distros have. A CD-R will only hold 700 Mb of data.
Gimp and couple of the other large App. files take up a lot of space. Gimp is, almost, 14 Mb all by itself.
That's the only reason ... the Devs are actually looking out for us.
Re: Keep Gimp in Mint 9!
I think what Ubuntu (Canonical) is finding out is that being "mainstream" is more difficult than it looks. It's easy to point out Microsoft blunders and think there are a bunch of morons making decisions (I do it all the time ), but the truth is that the people at Microsoft have had more success (by FAR) than any other software company, and by and large hire REALLY smart employees.lagagnon wrote:This decision, if it comes to fruition is just another example of Ubuntu turning itself into something more and more akin to Windows with every release, and especially the incremental "dumbing-down" of the release with every new release. It may soon come time for me to make my way back to Slackware or Arch.
Being a developer of a big-time operating system is a serious burden.
Re: Keep Gimp in Mint 9!
This is one of the sillier "discussions" I've seen here. Anyone who is seriously interested in digital photography will figure out how to add GIMP to their Ubuntu or Mint installation. GIMP is not a program that will encourage the novice, upon discovering its existence in their default install, to suddenly decide to become an expert. Picasa is a much better choice for the amateur.
Most professionals will continue to use Photoshop and other Windows and Mac tools like DxO http://dxo.com/intl/photo, a wonderful French program for processing SLR (mostly Nikon and Canon) images. I like GIMP, and use it. But I will not give up DxO, so I have to continue to work my photos in Windows.
Most professionals will continue to use Photoshop and other Windows and Mac tools like DxO http://dxo.com/intl/photo, a wonderful French program for processing SLR (mostly Nikon and Canon) images. I like GIMP, and use it. But I will not give up DxO, so I have to continue to work my photos in Windows.
Re: Keep Gimp in Mint 9!
waldo wrote:This is one of the sillier "discussions" I've seen here. Anyone who is seriously interested in digital photography will figure out how to add GIMP to their Ubuntu or Mint installation.
- Au contaire: that is like one of those silliest answers I have seen!
The query wasn't about types of photo editing software, digital camera images or otherwise, it was about why Ubuntu had decided to kill Gimp from their installation
The fact that it will still be available elsewhere (and one hopes also in Ubuntu repositories), is of no import
- Its (Gimp) removal was the concern of the OP
- Those who don't like it can adapt or change their choice as well..
Re: Keep Gimp in Mint 9!
The OP did not pose a question, and I did not suggest any question was silly. What I think is silly is people worrying about including GIMP on the install disk. Geez, if they can't cram it on there, leave it off, and don't worry about it.
Of course GIMP will be in the Ubuntu repository. It will be a click or two away from being on your Ubuntu computer.
The problem is the 700GB limit on CDs. Something has to give. It makes perfect sense to start with GIMP. It is not a widely used program. Again, if you want it, it's one or two clicks away. Mint already leaves off the Gnome default games, and those are much more popular than GIMP.
Of course GIMP will be in the Ubuntu repository. It will be a click or two away from being on your Ubuntu computer.
The problem is the 700GB limit on CDs. Something has to give. It makes perfect sense to start with GIMP. It is not a widely used program. Again, if you want it, it's one or two clicks away. Mint already leaves off the Gnome default games, and those are much more popular than GIMP.
Re: Keep Gimp in Mint 9!
The same thing has been mooted about Open Office - it's a Huge set of files.
keep it in the CD iso or not ?. the question still rages on ..... & on ........
One of the big things, for me, is that Mint is on a Cd & not on a DvD.
I have a fairly small dsl download limit & speed is another issue.
this is because of my very limited choice in ISPs that can deliver to where my house is located.
keep it in the CD iso or not ?. the question still rages on ..... & on ........
One of the big things, for me, is that Mint is on a Cd & not on a DvD.
I have a fairly small dsl download limit & speed is another issue.
this is because of my very limited choice in ISPs that can deliver to where my house is located.
Please edit your original post title to include [SOLVED] - when your problem is solved!
and DO LOOK at those Unanswered Topics - - you may be able to answer some!.
Re: Keep Gimp in Mint 9!
I think there is a responsible solution here that would work for both set of users (those who want it in and those who do not) if it's true that it was going to be removed.
Why not just use Mint Install and have it show a window on start-up recommending other applications such as Gimp if those who wish to remove it? It cannot be that hard to implement surely and would be a decent solution don't you think?
Why not just use Mint Install and have it show a window on start-up recommending other applications such as Gimp if those who wish to remove it? It cannot be that hard to implement surely and would be a decent solution don't you think?
Re: Keep Gimp in Mint 9!
I agree with Pierre, the question of CD vs DVD is vitally important, I have already left two distros because they changed to DVD's instead of CD's and I would again were it necessary. So what is included by default on a distro is crucial.
I believe the Ubuntu devs are absolutely correct. Gimp is not of the slightest interest to a lot of people (I can't remember the last time I used it and when I did all it produced was intense frustration - incidentally I would say exactly the same about Photoshop if I were a Windows user). So for me get rid of Gimp as soon as you like, most of Open Office too, just don't ever change to DVD.
I believe the Ubuntu devs are absolutely correct. Gimp is not of the slightest interest to a lot of people (I can't remember the last time I used it and when I did all it produced was intense frustration - incidentally I would say exactly the same about Photoshop if I were a Windows user). So for me get rid of Gimp as soon as you like, most of Open Office too, just don't ever change to DVD.
Re: Keep Gimp in Mint 9!
Gimp is installed by default in Slackware? :plagagnon wrote:This decision, if it comes to fruition is just another example of Ubuntu turning itself into something more and more akin to Windows with every release, and especially the incremental "dumbing-down" of the release with every new release. It may soon come time for me to make my way back to Slackware or Arch.
Re: Keep Gimp in Mint 9!
Pierre -
The issue of download bandwidth - CDs/DVDs are available by post for nearly every distro. Most quite reasonably. One can obtain the full DVD release in that manner. I think Ubuntu has amended its free policy in that respect - not sure. Fedora now has a free media program.OZ has at least 4 commercial outlets for various distro media. Also, On-Disc the retailer that peddles Mint has reseller opportunities for their products. You could be the local distributor for Perth perhaps. There is also a LUG in Perth where you likely could find a mate with media to spare http://www.sci.usq.edu.au/lug/groups/LUGWA.html. Using torrents or jigdo reduces bandwidth usage, I think. Of course, torrents are under tremendous scrutiny within the UK and a 50,000 Pound fine for the wrong bits is not far off, including prison time. Don't know if OZ is there yet on that or not. When the secret ACTA agreements are made public, I imagine the entire world will be up to speed on that issue.
Slack question - GIMP
PACKAGE NAME: gimp-2.6.6-i486-2.txz
PACKAGE LOCATION: ./slackware/xap
PACKAGE SIZE (compressed): 9204 K
PACKAGE SIZE (uncompressed): 52350 K
PACKAGE DESCRIPTION:
gimp: gimp (The GNU Image Manipulation Program)
gimp:
gimp: The GIMP is a powerful tool for the preparation and manipulation of
gimp: digital images. The GIMP provides the user with a wide variety of
gimp: image manipulation, painting, processing, and rendering tools. The
gimp: GIMP's open design and extensible architecture make for a very
gimp: powerful end product for photo and image retouching, web graphics
gimp: design, or digital illustration.
gimp:
The DVD contains 3 gb + of stuff. It would also be on a full set of CDs. That is Slack 13. The "default" is anything from minimal to all - chosen by operator.
The issue of download bandwidth - CDs/DVDs are available by post for nearly every distro. Most quite reasonably. One can obtain the full DVD release in that manner. I think Ubuntu has amended its free policy in that respect - not sure. Fedora now has a free media program.OZ has at least 4 commercial outlets for various distro media. Also, On-Disc the retailer that peddles Mint has reseller opportunities for their products. You could be the local distributor for Perth perhaps. There is also a LUG in Perth where you likely could find a mate with media to spare http://www.sci.usq.edu.au/lug/groups/LUGWA.html. Using torrents or jigdo reduces bandwidth usage, I think. Of course, torrents are under tremendous scrutiny within the UK and a 50,000 Pound fine for the wrong bits is not far off, including prison time. Don't know if OZ is there yet on that or not. When the secret ACTA agreements are made public, I imagine the entire world will be up to speed on that issue.
Slack question - GIMP
PACKAGE NAME: gimp-2.6.6-i486-2.txz
PACKAGE LOCATION: ./slackware/xap
PACKAGE SIZE (compressed): 9204 K
PACKAGE SIZE (uncompressed): 52350 K
PACKAGE DESCRIPTION:
gimp: gimp (The GNU Image Manipulation Program)
gimp:
gimp: The GIMP is a powerful tool for the preparation and manipulation of
gimp: digital images. The GIMP provides the user with a wide variety of
gimp: image manipulation, painting, processing, and rendering tools. The
gimp: GIMP's open design and extensible architecture make for a very
gimp: powerful end product for photo and image retouching, web graphics
gimp: design, or digital illustration.
gimp:
The DVD contains 3 gb + of stuff. It would also be on a full set of CDs. That is Slack 13. The "default" is anything from minimal to all - chosen by operator.
Last edited by nukm on Thu Nov 26, 2009 10:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Keep Gimp in Mint 9!
Is there a piece of software that acts more like MS Paint? As in, it starts up instantly, has a tiny install footprint, runs smoothly on just about any hardware, and its interface is simple and able to be mastered in minutes. Something like MS Paint, but with layers, transparency, open source code, and a longer undo log would be awesome to include in place of Pidgin.
Re: Keep Gimp in Mint 9!
GNU Paint8bit wrote:Is there a piece of software that acts more like MS Paint? As in, it starts up instantly, has a tiny install footprint, runs smoothly on just about any hardware, and its interface is simple and able to be mastered in minutes. Something like MS Paint, but with layers, transparency, open source code, and a longer undo log would be awesome to include in place of Pidgin.
Re: Keep Gimp in Mint 9!
May I post here my proposal, as it came out from a long topic in the italian Ubuntuforum?
Keep Gimp (obviously); remove EOG, F-Spot and all the mono libs (Tomboy notes can be replaced by excellent & identical Gnote), install by default gThumb. The last one is an excellent photo viewer-editor-manager, it has more features than F-Spot + EOG and it is faster.
In this way you get an advanced viewer and you keep the most advanced image editor as well.
My two cents.
Keep Gimp (obviously); remove EOG, F-Spot and all the mono libs (Tomboy notes can be replaced by excellent & identical Gnote), install by default gThumb. The last one is an excellent photo viewer-editor-manager, it has more features than F-Spot + EOG and it is faster.
In this way you get an advanced viewer and you keep the most advanced image editor as well.
My two cents.