Linux Mint 12, and beyond?

Write suggestions and new ideas in here
More ideas here http://community.linuxmint.com/idea/welcome
Forum rules
  • Only post ideas here that are specifically about the Linux Mint distribution or its websites.
  • So that developers and users from any distribution can discuss ideas in one place, post ideas about improving software to the collaboration website for that software instead.

Should Linux Mint...

Maintain There Own Distro
105
34%
Follow Ubuntu
47
15%
Follow Debian
136
44%
Other (tell me in the comments)
18
6%
 
Total votes: 306

User avatar
xenopeek
Level 24
Level 24
Posts: 24272
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2011 3:58 am
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Linux Mint 12, and beyond?

Post by xenopeek »

Robin wrote:One of the biggest complaints against Ubuntu has been their rush to faster boot times at the expense of other functionality. Now here's a complaint that boot times are too slow in the latest Beta. Can't win, can they?
Sorry, but Ubuntu made a big thing about decreasing boot times, and then two releases later all the improvements they made have vanished... I'm not nitpicking, but if their Q&A didn't catch this, it raises my concern about what to expect on overall system performance and responsiveness.

It seems like Phoronix is turning into Linux's Q&A department :wink: (What, with also finding the cause of power regressions in kernels 2.6.38 onwards.)
Image

KBD47
Level 7
Level 7
Posts: 1812
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2011 12:03 am

Re: Linux Mint 12, and beyond?

Post by KBD47 »

I think the overall bloat does concern some users. The newer desktops are either slower or do not work with older hardware. Desktops like Xfce and Lxde are becoming more popular, and lighter distros like Puppy and Bodhi are getting more attention. Right now I'm using Lubuntu from a live usb and it is super fast. Many of us moved from Windows in part because of its bloatware and the fact You Had to take a coffee break waiting for it to boot up :-)
KBD47

KMS_Alex
Level 1
Level 1
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2011 11:06 pm

Re: Linux Mint 12, and beyond?

Post by KMS_Alex »

I know this is a bit off topic, but is there a 12 alpha .iso somewhere a few google results haven't turned up anything.

User avatar
proxima_centauri
Level 11
Level 11
Posts: 3950
Joined: Tue Dec 25, 2007 3:24 pm
Location: NB, Canada

Re: Linux Mint 12, and beyond?

Post by proxima_centauri »

KMS_Alex wrote:I know this is a bit off topic, but is there a 12 alpha .iso somewhere a few google results haven't turned up anything.
No. There may be an RC release - and that will not be until after Ubuntu 11.10 is released.

User avatar
linuxviolin
Level 8
Level 8
Posts: 2082
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 6:55 pm
Location: France

Re: Linux Mint 12, and beyond?

Post by linuxviolin »

Vincent Vermeulen wrote:Ubuntu's apparent lack of Q&A
It is not "apparent", it is real...
Robin wrote:Personally I don't consider boot time important, and I doubt that many "ordinary users" care that much. I turn my 'puter on and go grab a cup of coffee or a Mountain Dew from the fridge. By the time I return to my room from the kitchen, my desktop is all ready for school. If it takes a few seconds longer so what.
Exactly. Boot time is really quite unimportant. I don't care about it. Except maybe if the system boots in 15 minutes for instance :lol:

I am convinced/think for the majority of the users and 'ordinary users' as said Robin, it's the same thing.
K.I.S.S. ===> "Keep It Simple, Stupid"
"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication." (Leonardo da Vinci)
"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler." (Albert Einstein)

gogogadget
Level 1
Level 1
Posts: 42
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2009 3:44 pm

Re: Linux Mint 12, and beyond?

Post by gogogadget »

proxima_centauri wrote:There may be an RC release - and that will not be until after Ubuntu 11.10 is released.
Which basically means it's still based on Ubuntu, otherwise there wouldn't be any reason to wait, isn't it?

Don't know what solution would be best, the Gnome DE is still the best... and I have nothing against Gnome 3 Shell. If the new Mint 12 would be Ubuntu based+G3 Shell I'd be happy. I really don't want any Gnome2 anymore. Unfortunately LXDE also misses some features which I use quite often e.g. drag window to left or right side and it automatically resizes and positions it on half the screen. The window borders in LXDE are also uncomfortable thin, and I missed the cool FTP login feature, which is included in Gnome window menu. The menu & system settings are also too minimalistic :( Well it's just that Gnome is more comfortable, therefore I won't switch to LXDE or KDE or anything else at all...

By the way... when I installed Ubuntu 11.10 Beta2 I could see that they tried to clean up the Software Categories, but the overall listing of applications still looks much uglier and cluttered than the G3 Shell. Also you are forced to activate the "categories" button each time you clicked somewhere else. Quite annoying. 2 columns of categories is also worse than 1 column (G3 shell). And I still don't like the fact, that I have 2 "Taskbars" in Ubuntu. This must be one of the most f*** up "inventions" in history... worse than Windows. Why: because when I want to show 2 windows next to each other then the sidebar is overlapped. I don't know which "genius" idea that was... but Ubuntu just doesn't get better...
Last edited by proxima_centauri on Thu Sep 29, 2011 9:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Edited for language

User avatar
xenopeek
Level 24
Level 24
Posts: 24272
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2011 3:58 am
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Linux Mint 12, and beyond?

Post by xenopeek »

GNOME 3.2 has been released, and I'm liking what I'm seeing. I still want my open windows list though :D

http://www.webupd8.org/2011/09/gnome-32 ... s-new.html
Image

User avatar
linuxviolin
Level 8
Level 8
Posts: 2082
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 6:55 pm
Location: France

Re: Linux Mint 12, and beyond?

Post by linuxviolin »

GNOME 3.2, always the same... Really, I'm asking how a sane person can like this. (Please, this is not an attack towards someone, I'm really astonished, astounded) Oh and I see there is still no power off option in the user menu. Probably the developers are too busied to some other useless and silly "things" (proxima_centauri: :P) and can not even set up a simple option. Too difficult for them probably. :twisted:
Last edited by linuxviolin on Thu Sep 29, 2011 6:37 pm, edited 5 times in total.
K.I.S.S. ===> "Keep It Simple, Stupid"
"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication." (Leonardo da Vinci)
"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler." (Albert Einstein)

User avatar
karashata
Level 4
Level 4
Posts: 439
Joined: Tue May 10, 2011 2:53 pm
Location: Stratford, Ontario, Canada
Contact:

Re: Linux Mint 12, and beyond?

Post by karashata »

Forgive me for pointing this out if someone else already has, but, there *is* technically a power off menu item, you just have to hold Alt in order to bring it up by default. There's an extension available to change this and make Power Off its own menu item, I have it installed, though truth be told I usually just press the power button and select to power off (or occasionally reboot) from the dialog that pops up (I have the power button set to interactive mode).
Linux Mint user since 2010, fluffy dragon forever!
Registered Linux User #473695
Image

KBD47
Level 7
Level 7
Posts: 1812
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2011 12:03 am

Re: Linux Mint 12, and beyond?

Post by KBD47 »

karashata wrote:Forgive me for pointing this out if someone else already has, but, there *is* technically a power off menu item, you just have to hold Alt in order to bring it up by default. There's an extension available to change this and make Power Off its own menu item, I have it installed, though truth be told I usually just press the power button and select to power off (or occasionally reboot) from the dialog that pops up (I have the power button set to interactive mode).
Everything you just said is exactly why gnome 3 is junk. Even little Lxde and Puppy Linux and Enlightenment manages to have a shutdown button. But don't ask gnome 3 for one, they are too busy putting a wall between you and your computer. I hope gnome 3 fails massively, maybe then they will either go back and build on gnome two, or simply start over. You should not have to jump through hoops to shutdown your computer :(
KBD47

User avatar
linuxviolin
Level 8
Level 8
Posts: 2082
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 6:55 pm
Location: France

Re: Linux Mint 12, and beyond?

Post by linuxviolin »

karashata wrote:Forgive me for pointing this out if someone else already has, but, there *is* technically a power off menu item, you just have to hold Alt in order to bring it up by default.
Again this Alt "thing"... :roll:
K.I.S.S. ===> "Keep It Simple, Stupid"
"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication." (Leonardo da Vinci)
"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler." (Albert Einstein)

User avatar
proxima_centauri
Level 11
Level 11
Posts: 3950
Joined: Tue Dec 25, 2007 3:24 pm
Location: NB, Canada

Re: Linux Mint 12, and beyond?

Post by proxima_centauri »

Hey, at least they added power preferences for laptop lid behaviour instead of automatic suspend - it's a start. :lol:
EDIT: Nevermind, that's part of gnome tweak tool.

craig10x
Level 7
Level 7
Posts: 1565
Joined: Fri Jul 03, 2009 12:44 pm

Re: Linux Mint 12, and beyond?

Post by craig10x »

If you look at the "pie chart" of mint users on the "community page" you will see that those using LMDE is still a relatively small amount (about 10%) the vast majority run main edition (gnome) either 32 bit or 64 bit...(about 75% in total)...

Even with the new update pack system, pointed to "latest" there is still plenty of chances for regressions, breakage, dependency problems....all despite clem's valiant efforts (not his fault...it's the "nature of the beast")....one still needs to be very technically oriented...and this will likely remain the case...

As much as people complain about ubuntu, or using ubuntu as a base...they have tons of paid employees working on each edition, and though they don't get all problems out prior to release, they do a pretty good job...probably often better then the volunteers at debian can achieve...
And being in debian testing is kind of like perpetually being in a sort of "beta" state...

I had it (LMDE) on twice...both before update packs were available and now recently, with update packs...i stll found problems were developing, threw in the towel and went back to the ubuntu based mint main edition (64 bit) where i am now extremely happy and feel i have a very stable and reliable (and much better polished) system...

I'm sincerely hoping Clem will continue doing the ubuntu based mint in the future for gnome at least...
And i am currently loving Mint 11 and look forward to seeing what Mint 12 may bring forth :D

Condorman
Level 4
Level 4
Posts: 263
Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2008 10:08 am

Re: Linux Mint 12, and beyond?

Post by Condorman »

While I agree that the missing power off button in Gnome 3 is a bit odd (I had to add an extension to have a permanent power off button. They need to look at this imho), I cannot agree that Gnome 3 otherwise is "junk". I have been using it for about six months now on another distro and it is a real joy to use. It's fast, attractive, and easy to use. I seemed to really take to it, and I find other environments a bit of a chore to use now in comparison, especially with regards workspaces.

It's sad to me that so many people are having a tough time adjusting to the new desktops. It's surprising though that some are so completely against anything different. Personally, I wouldn't go back to Gnome 2 for anything. Gnome 3 is a really lovely thing imho.

KBD47
Level 7
Level 7
Posts: 1812
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2011 12:03 am

Re: Linux Mint 12, and beyond?

Post by KBD47 »

I for one am not just against anything different, it is just that I find gnome 3 unusable for me. I've tried and enjoyed all of the following and they are quite 'different' :
Lubuntu/lxde, Brodhi/Enlightenment, Puppy/JWM/IceWm, Ubuntu/Unity, Kubuntu/Netbook/KDE, Mepis/KDE, Xubuntu/Xfce, and Mint/Gnome 2.
So it looks like the only one I really hate is Gnome 3. It has nothing to do with it being different. I actually like different, I just don't like unusable.
KBD47

HardyH
Level 2
Level 2
Posts: 74
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2011 7:02 pm

Re: Linux Mint 12, and beyond?

Post by HardyH »

Condorman wrote:While I agree that the missing power off button in Gnome 3 is a bit odd (I had to add an extension to have a permanent power off button. They need to look at this imho), I cannot agree that Gnome 3 otherwise is "junk". I have been using it for about six months now on another distro and it is a real joy to use. It's fast, attractive, and easy to use. I seemed to really take to it, and I find other environments a bit of a chore to use now in comparison, especially with regards workspaces.

It's sad to me that so many people are having a tough time adjusting to the new desktops. It's surprising though that some are so completely against anything different. Personally, I wouldn't go back to Gnome 2 for anything. Gnome 3 is a really lovely thing imho.
I changed from Win XP to Ubuntu in 2008, cause I hated Vista, I changed from Gnome 2 to KDE 4.7 recently, cause I hated Gnome 3 and Unity, so don't say I am completely against 'anything different'.
For me Usability comes first, whereas in Unity and Gnome 3 Design comes first, and functionality has to follow design in both environments. That is a break of one of the major rules of good design which says : From has to follow function. The people who made these 'Function follows From/Design' environments (Unity, Gnome (S)hell) should go and do something else but ruining GUIs, cause to me it's quite clear that they don't know what they are doing ( except making shiny stuff many people hate. I have talked to a lot of people about both, Unity and Gnome (S)hell, and noone i alked to likes either of them.
Hardy
Unity/Gnome(S)hell, the Vistas of Linux

Nick_Djinn
Level 5
Level 5
Posts: 635
Joined: Sat May 15, 2010 7:12 am

Re: Linux Mint 12, and beyond?

Post by Nick_Djinn »

They shouldnt have to maintain their own entire distro.....but how about a custom panel, or porting an alternative panel into Gnome-3? Something other than the default Gnome3 panel, something that allows customization and shows your tabs?

Gnome3 and Gnome-Shell alike are NOT workable for workstations. Gnome-3 is merely the better option between two bad choices, Gnome3 and Unity. Gnome3 without Shell is not any more functional than Gnome-3 with shell, which was dumb of them.

I have provided some ideas here.

http://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.p ... 27#p479927
Personally, I think Gnome3 is fixable. Its not great by default, but its something somebody could work with. I actually kind of like how you can see all your windows in Gnome-Shell compared to a slew of tabs. The graphical layout of apps isnt bad either....BUT, we NEED to see all of our tabs. A menu-list plus a string of tabs in addition to the default Gnome-Shell would be nice. The panel is just going to waste. Why? To what end? Are they trying to port to Android? Is Unity is to keep Ubuntu unique when that happens? Gnomes ugly cousin from bizzario land?



Anyway, just adding some tabs to Gnome Shell or Gnome 3 could make it way easier to use. I like Mint menu better than KDE because I hate having to click click click to navigate it, while Mint Menu is all there at once. Many distros like porting Mint Menu, including ones not based on Ubuntu....the Menu I could let go though for Gnome-Shell IF I could just my eefing tabs. :/




Also, have you tried NOT using Gnome for your only full featured Ubuntu based distro? Moving to KDE? What about mixing and matching your DE? How about NOT using Gnome-Panel in Gnome3? Why not KDE Panel or even XFCE panel? XFCE is really shaping up into a nice gnome replacement. Backbox is a nice hackers distro using XFCE and they have a custom layout, and its just as nice as Gnome from 2007-2008. It didnt use to be, but XFCE 4.8 is a game changer.....And why not move to XFCE? Its really not that bad. Maybe you could port the Gnome-Classic shell to it without getting these screwy decencies from Ubuntu Main.....And why not KDE? Mint 10 KDE was nice.....PCLOS 2010 did something cool using E17 Window manager with KDE panel and Dolphin and it was pretty darn sweet looking. If done carefully I think mixing and matching could work.....Why not XFCE or KDE panel in Gnome-3 without Gnome shell, heavily modified? You could use Mint-Menu then. Little things like transparency are not present yet in XFCE panel, but otherwise with Mint Menu its really not all that worse than Gnome was 4-5 years ago, and it was good enough then.



Mint was always my go-to distro for turning my family and friends onto Linux. As of Mint 11 its too buggy. I hope Mint 12 is a game changer. I also dont hold it against the Mint team for the challenge of upstream issues.


Finally, what about porting Jockey and some other Ubuntu tools to Debian? I think Debian makes a better base but its missing some badly needed tools. Mint Menu and update slapped on a debian based then ignored isnt terrible, but its not anywhere near a replacement for the Main or KDE editions that were suitable for the masses.

KBD47
Level 7
Level 7
Posts: 1812
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2011 12:03 am

Re: Linux Mint 12, and beyond?

Post by KBD47 »

Though it is interesting to play around with a variety of desktops, I find that when it comes to actually getting work done, I need a classic desktop, one with easy workspace switching and windows management. Unity is fine on the netbook for email and surfing the net, but once you start moving between multiple files and pages you see its weakness, same with Gnome 3.
KBD47

CharlesRHead
Level 1
Level 1
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2011 3:43 pm

Re: Linux Mint 12, and beyond?

Post by CharlesRHead »

I would choose to follow Debian, with one proviso. I am a relatively experienced sys admin -- in the Windows world. However, I have never been able to install a driver in any Linux distro (the instructions skip so many steps and/or use such specialized language that I can't follow them). As a result, I can't use the Linux Mint Debian Edition in any of my computers that rely on wireless network connections. If the Debian Edition could be modified to include all the drivers in the current mainline Linux Mint 11 edition, then I'd back the Debian Edition all the way. Whatever Linux Mint does, I hope it doesn't follow the Ubuntu Unity, Gnome 3 or Windows 8 nuttiness.

AlbertP
Level 16
Level 16
Posts: 6714
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 12:38 pm
Location: Utrecht, The Netherlands

Re: Linux Mint 12, and beyond?

Post by AlbertP »

All drivers of Mint 11 are also there in Debian, except that there's no easy additional drivers program to install Broadcom. And for Intel you need the firmware-iwlwifi package from Software Manager - which you can just install when the computer is connected to wired internet. The inxi -N command will show you which networking card you're using: it shows wired and wireless, usually card 1 is wired and card 2 is wireless but it may be different.
Registered Linux User #528502
Image
Feel free to correct me if I'm trying to write in Spanish, French or German.

Post Reply

Return to “Suggestions & New Ideas”