Why linux mint NEEDS to make KDE its default UI

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AlbertP
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Re: Why linux mint NEEDS to make KDE its default UI

Post by AlbertP » Fri Jul 01, 2011 11:40 am

I do not hate KDE, it's a great desktop, but I simply need Gnome apps. I can't live without Nautilus. The integration of Nautilus with KDE is bad, for example the theme looks horrible and the trash button in the menu doesn't work when Nautilus is set as file manager.
Please, please, don't force me to KDE. I want only 1 thing and that's choice between both DE's.
Gnome 2 is not that bad, it's very stable, Xfce & LXDE are good environments, and there's nothing wrong with Gnome 3 running without Shell. Not yet tested Unity (could not get it to work on Mint and I don't want to run Ubuntu just for testing Unity).
And I prefer Gnome apps over the KDE ones (except K3B which is much better than Brasero).

My opinion is that Mint should switch to a Gnome-like desktop based on Xfce, LXDE or Gnome 3 without Shell. And keep a seperate KDE edition.
But I'd like if the KDE Mint would be released earlier, within a month after Mint Gnome's release. I know that this is not possible with the current size of the development team, and I cannot help developing Mint at the moment. But you know my opinion on this topic.
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Re: Why linux mint NEEDS to make KDE its default UI

Post by linuxviolin » Fri Jul 01, 2011 11:45 am

AlbertP wrote:I don't want to run Ubuntu just for testing Unity.
Well, even in LiveCD mode?
K.I.S.S. ===> "Keep It Simple, Stupid"
"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication." (Leonardo da Vinci)
"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler." (Albert Einstein)

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Re: Why linux mint NEEDS to make KDE its default UI

Post by AlbertP » Fri Jul 01, 2011 11:48 am

I don't have the time for downloading and burning atm and don't want to waste a disc for an OS that I'm not going to use. Indeed, I can use a DVD+rw or USB and will probably do that when I'm having time for it. Maybe next week.
Last edited by AlbertP on Fri Jul 01, 2011 11:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Why linux mint NEEDS to make KDE its default UI

Post by linuxviolin » Fri Jul 01, 2011 11:52 am

AlbertP wrote:don't want to waste a disc for an OS that I'm not going to use.
OK. But there are also re-writable disks... :wink:
K.I.S.S. ===> "Keep It Simple, Stupid"
"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication." (Leonardo da Vinci)
"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler." (Albert Einstein)

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Re: Why linux mint NEEDS to make KDE its default UI

Post by Rojiru » Sat Jul 02, 2011 8:26 am

I ceased to be a fan of ubuntu some years ago. When nothing worked. Mostly over the issues relating to codecs etc. As a non Techie, I neither have the knowledge, time or inclination to go rummaging around countless forums trying to find the appropriate files. I did develop a soft spot for Kubuntu some years ago. Not so much for Kubuntu but for the programs(packages) that it supported. Programs like Amorok, Gwenview, Kdenlive, Kaffeine. But as regards the basic Ubuntu Os side of Kubuntu, well I have no time for it. It has the same problems as Ubuntu with respect to Codecs. The wifi never worked etc.etc. As for the recent Kubuntu Desk tops, I loathe them.

It begs the question, does Mint need either Ubuntu or Kubuntu. What it really needs is a basic Kernal or core operating system, linked to its already extensive software library. So that what ever the individuals preference, that individual can customize his desktop, to his own tastes and needs.

I've been using both Mint 8 and 9 for some time now, (both excellent OS's, but recently, both PC's crashed after accepting some updates. I was not going to change from the aforementioned OS's but given the circumstances decided to try Mint 11 and the Debian version of mint. The latter because I am disgruntled with having to rely on Ubuntu.

When I first loaded Mint 11, I was quite impressed. But the eye candy soon wore off. I'm finding Mint 11 quite buggy. It is not the fault of Mint, but the sloppy, half baked, unfinished distro produced by Ubuntu. Nothing new there then! Needless to say I will be either sticking with mint 8 or upgrading to Mint Debian.

In the mean time I may be checking out Fedora or event the light weight OS's. I notice that Slax has an OS to which you can add whatever package you want, building the distro on line to your own requirement, that sounds like an interesting option.

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Re: Why linux mint NEEDS to make KDE its default UI

Post by linuxviolin » Sat Jul 02, 2011 10:02 am

Rojiru wrote:In the mean time I may be checking out Fedora or event the light weight OS's. I notice that Slax has an OS to which you can add whatever package you want, building the distro on line to your own requirement, that sounds like an interesting option.
If I can give you an advice, you should also think to Mageia. It's a quite good and interesting distro. In Mageia Cauldron (Mageia's name for "Cooker") it has more packages than 1.0 and, while obviously risky, it's surprisingly stable for a cooker/rawhide/unstable distro. And yum (Fedora) is still a gazillion times slower than urpmi (Mageia) (also valid for the GUI tools), despite the fact that they’re both managing RPMs.

Mageia is the big news for 2011.
K.I.S.S. ===> "Keep It Simple, Stupid"
"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication." (Leonardo da Vinci)
"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler." (Albert Einstein)

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Re: Why linux mint NEEDS to make KDE its default UI

Post by AlbertP » Sat Jul 02, 2011 10:09 am

It is not a difference between yum, apt-get and urpmi. It is due to the technical differences between the repositories of distros.

The yum equivalent of apt-get update is indeed slow on the Fedora repo. But with Yum you do not need that update: it just downloads all necessary information during a yum install. When you know that you don't need that update, you can download/install things nearly as fast as APT.
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Re: Why linux mint NEEDS to make KDE its default UI

Post by linuxviolin » Sat Jul 02, 2011 11:12 am

AlbertP wrote:It is not a difference between yum, apt-get and urpmi. It is due to the technical differences between the repositories of distros.

The yum equivalent of apt-get update is indeed slow on the Fedora repo. But with Yum you do not need that update: it just downloads all necessary information during a yum install. When you know that you don't need that update, you can download/install things nearly as fast as APT.
Apt? Who talks about apt? If you read well my post, I didn't talk about yum and apt but about yum and urpmi, both using RPMs. And I'm sorry, but as I said, "yum is still a gazillion times slower than urpmi (also valid for the GUI tools)". Even if you dislike this. :lol: :D
K.I.S.S. ===> "Keep It Simple, Stupid"
"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication." (Leonardo da Vinci)
"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler." (Albert Einstein)

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Re: Why linux mint NEEDS to make KDE its default UI

Post by zerozero » Sat Jul 02, 2011 11:29 am

linuxviolin wrote: If I can give you an advice, you should also think to Mageia. It's a quite good and interesting distro. In Mageia Cauldron (Mageia's name for "Cooker") it has more packages than 1.0 and, while obviously risky, it's surprisingly stable for a cooker/rawhide/unstable distro. And yum (Fedora) is still a gazillion times slower than urpmi (Mageia) (also valid for the GUI tools), despite the fact that they’re both managing RPMs.

Mageia is the big news for 2011.
finally we agree :lol: :lol:
I've been waiting for Mageia for almost one year, downloading and trying every alpha, beta, subscribing to the mailing list, and now with Mageia1 out and the KDE v. installed and tracking cauldron i just have to say: was worth it 8)
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Re: Why linux mint NEEDS to make KDE its default UI

Post by linuxviolin » Sat Jul 02, 2011 11:35 am

zerozero wrote:finally we agree :lol: :lol:
I've been waiting for Mageia for almost one year, downloading and trying every alpha, beta, subscribing to the mailing list, and now with Mageia1 out and the KDE v. installed and tracking cauldron i just have to say: was worth it 8)
:D Fine. For now, Cauldron has a small problem with KDE 4.6.90: high CPU load due to kded4. Otherwise... 8) :D
K.I.S.S. ===> "Keep It Simple, Stupid"
"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication." (Leonardo da Vinci)
"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler." (Albert Einstein)

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Re: Why linux mint NEEDS to make KDE its default UI

Post by zerozero » Sat Jul 02, 2011 11:55 am

i saw the warnings in the ml https://mageia.org/pipermail/mageia-dis ... 04857.html
anyway for now it's on hold, but tks for the heads-up
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Re: Why linux mint NEEDS to make KDE its default UI

Post by jeffreyC » Sun Jul 03, 2011 5:23 pm

If you had said to make Xfce the default I would agree with you, but not KDE.
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Re: Why linux mint NEEDS to make KDE its default UI

Post by Mozenrath » Sun Jul 03, 2011 5:25 pm

Why not just make our own desktop environment based on Gnome 2? Sorry, but I like my GTK+ applications.

Also, is there no reason that Gnome 3 can't be modded to fit our needs? There's no good reason for the panels not being movable and for the GTK+ themes to not be changeable.

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Re: Why linux mint NEEDS to make KDE its default UI

Post by jeffreyC » Sun Jul 03, 2011 5:57 pm

Xfce uses GTK and the panel / panels can be moved.
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Re: Why linux mint NEEDS to make KDE its default UI

Post by zerozero » Sun Jul 03, 2011 6:11 pm

you can move the panel in the shell http://www.webupd8.org/2011/06/get-clas ... these.html

as for themes, only on dA you can browse 27, i think http://browse.deviantart.com/customizat ... ome/gnome/
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Re: Why linux mint NEEDS to make KDE its default UI

Post by kvv » Sun Jul 03, 2011 7:49 pm

Mozenrath wrote:Why not just make our own desktop environment based on Gnome 2? Sorry, but I like my GTK+ applications.

Also, is there no reason that Gnome 3 can't be modded to fit our needs? There's no good reason for the panels not being movable and for the GTK+ themes to not be changeable.
gtk+ applications still run.

gnome3 can be modded to suit our needs 90%.

panels are movable, and gtk+ themes can be changed. there are not too many right now though.
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Re: Why linux mint NEEDS to make KDE its default UI

Post by linuxviolin » Sun Jul 03, 2011 8:59 pm

The extensions don't solve all the problems and it is probably preferable to have few of them, the less possible, like in Firefox. And the need for extensions to have a somewhat decent desktop instead to have one directly with good defaults is stupid. GNOME3 is broken by design, and the same can be said of Ubuntu’s Unity.

About XFCE, jeffreyC , 4.8 is not bad but KDE is probably better (with a Folder View Activity on the desktop etc) and more modern. XFCE is "never there yet”. No matter how you’re configuring it, it still feels like Win95 or maybe Win98. And its inability to display the desktop icon titles with a transparent background (and shadowed/outlined text for improved visibility over the wallpaper) is simply a decision to stick to 1995! And you also have to spend "2 hours setup" for it starts, just starts, looking like a decent thing... Also for instance, after using KDE4 and its Dolphin, I find Thunar limited, there are things that I miss...

KDE 4 is probably now a (even maybe the) better (and only?) choice as a desktop. To give an exemple, the Mageia KDE defaults seem very sane. But I have already explain all of this and more elsewhere in the forum, so I'll not repeat myself and I stop here. :wink:
Last edited by linuxviolin on Wed Jul 27, 2011 1:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
K.I.S.S. ===> "Keep It Simple, Stupid"
"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication." (Leonardo da Vinci)
"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler." (Albert Einstein)

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Re: Why linux mint NEEDS to make KDE its default UI

Post by kvv » Mon Jul 04, 2011 2:07 am

I was not talking about the gnome shell, but a good ol' gnome desktop. People seem to be under the wrong assumption that just because gnome-shell is aimed at smaller screens, gnome3 is not good for the desktop. I am running Fedora15 with gnome 3, and I have it setup exactly like gnome2 without the mintmenu. Noone needs to jump into it, but I am sure that mintxmetal theme, and the mintmenu can be ported to gtk3. A few themes have already been ported.

Extensions only apply if you are running the gnome shell.
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Re: Why linux mint NEEDS to make KDE its default UI

Post by linuxviolin » Wed Jul 06, 2011 6:20 pm

kvv wrote:a good ol' gnome desktop. (...) I am running Fedora15 with gnome 3, and I have it setup exactly like gnome2
The GNOME 3 Fallback Mode tries to look like the old GNOME 2, but fails miserably... You can read this for instance, by the builder of GNOME 2.32 for F15: Why Gnome 3′s Fallback mode sucks.
K.I.S.S. ===> "Keep It Simple, Stupid"
"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication." (Leonardo da Vinci)
"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler." (Albert Einstein)

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Re: Why linux mint NEEDS to make KDE its default UI

Post by randomizer » Wed Jul 06, 2011 11:59 pm

Madone wrote:1: Gnome 3 is broken and mostly uncustomizable
This is fundamentally untrue. GNOME 3, particularly GNOME Shell, is extremely customisable. You can delete panels (or whatever they now call them), you can move them, you can even add them. You just need to be good with JavaScript and be willing to patch every update :lol:

I moved it down to the bottom here. Most things work right like this, although there are a few quirks that I didn't bother to iron out while playing around.

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