Mint Needs an Upgrade Option (survey)

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Mint Needs an Upgrade Option (survey)

Postby tecknomage » Fri Dec 02, 2011 11:05 am

OK, I like Linux Mint and have Mint 10 on my laptop :)

BUT there is one thing I do NOT like about Mint, NOT having an Upgrade option online or via Live CD like Ubuntu does :x

I have read the (IMHO faulty reasoning) for not have an Upgrade option. It amounts to Upgrading without doing a backup FIRST.

This concern CAN be addressed by:
  1. Include a Warning dialog about backing up BEFORE the Upgrade starts, in fact there could be more than one dialog, with a [Cancel] button
  2. Automatically start a backup before Upgrading (both Home folder and Programs)
The bottom line, if Ubuntu does it, why not Mint :?:

I used Ubuntu starting with v9 and NEVER had a problem using their Upgrade option, online or Live CD. But I DID do a backup as is recommended by Ubuntu.

(I wish this forum had a survey option)
Please consider this post a survey.
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Re: Mint Needs an Upgrade Option (survey)

Postby xenopeek » Fri Dec 02, 2011 11:41 am

Please edit your post, or create a new one. Then scroll all the way down, and select the "Poll creation" tab!

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Re: Mint Needs an Upgrade Option (survey)

Postby Oscar799 » Fri Dec 02, 2011 11:55 am

Moved here from Installation & Boot

xenopeek is correct,you can create a poll in the way he suggests
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Re: Mint Needs an Upgrade Option (survey)

Postby viking777 » Fri Dec 02, 2011 11:56 am

Well you have item C2 on this page:

And you have LMDE.

Personally though I have had a completely ruined installation using Ubuntu's upgrade method so I guess there is some sense in the reasoning quoted for not having such a procedure. Then again I have had a completely ruined installation using C2 in the page above as well - but then I had a backup, with Ubuntu I didn't.

I have temporarily broken parts of LMDE but never ruined it completely. So my answer is that I wonder why Mint main still exists when LMDE is so much better? In my opinion of course.
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Re: Mint Needs an Upgrade Option (survey)

Postby WhatUsernameIsFree? » Fri Dec 02, 2011 4:48 pm

I'm very pleased for you that when you've upgraded you've never had a problem, however, the upgrade process was the very thing that pushed me to Mint (LMDE). The upgrade process for me would involve about an hour for the upgrade to complete, then at least a day fixing it afterwards. Originally the Ubuntu releases weren't that radical, however with every new release came a "bigger and better" 'upgrades'.

I'm a healthcare professional by trade. I have no real interest with computers. I want my computer system to "just work", which is why I chose Linux in the first place. I do owe a lot to Canonical and Ubuntu, since the required 'fixing process' did teach me a lot about Linux.

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Re: Mint Needs an Upgrade Option (survey)

Postby bimsebasse » Fri Dec 02, 2011 5:38 pm

Yes, congratulations on never having any problems with an upgrade - many, many users have and it's shameless and irresponsible the way Ubuntu recommends an upgrade in the update manager without any warning when the upgrade success rate is so low. I've been on an Ubuntu support forum for a while and there were daily complaints from new users who had the last upgrade damage their system. See also the recent succesfull upgrade poll on the OMGUbuntu blog - 37% is a very low success rate and 1 in 4 experiences a complete failure, and those numbers come from an Ubuntu fan blog. Until the success rate has improved greatly, Ubuntu and Ubuntu derivates should not even consider upgrading an option. Backup your files, clean install - only way to go. The Mint team's stance on this is one of the reasons Mint is Ubuntu done right.
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Re: Mint Needs an Upgrade Option (survey)

Postby lmintnewb » Fri Dec 02, 2011 5:55 pm

Though would be a waste of time posting a poll. Mint HQ no doubt has enough on their plates, are already juggling this, that the other 10 things. Really doubt they'd drop what they're doing and the goals they have to accommodate 20 people voting on a LM forum poll.

From what I've seen and understand, buntu releases often break people's stuff. Even doing a fresh install from one 6 month release to the next. With all the changes and alterations incorporated sounds like a recipe for borkage. Now LTS releases or whatever ... still really think the same is a likely outcome. Canonical is certainly not world renown for listening to the needs of that distro's community. Or for quality control in general, hacking Debian and spitting out 1/2 baked releases at breakneck speeds. Many of which the end users of the distro obviously don't like, as if canonical seems to care. Noticed the number of people jumping off the buntu train popping up in the Mint forum ? So buntu does it ... isn't saying much imo. Buntu does a lot of stuff that am sure the Mint people spend more than a tad of time cursing and kicking stuff over. Stuff such as dang it ! We have to deal with this, that, these, those and thous to try to smooth out canonical's software quirks n bugs !

Also seems LM has rolling releases out. Which one of the selling pts, is supposed to be no reinstall's necessary. And the virtue of being Debian based vs buntu. Might want to give them a gander. Other random babblings to include. If the volunteer devs associated with LM and LM HQ can spend who knows how many gazillions of hours cooking up software, trying to please everyone and their aunt mertle. Then doesn't seem all that unreasonable to expect the people who use certain releases of their software to be willing to spend some time reinstalling a fresh release and importing whatever data they like into or keeping such on a seperate partition for easier migration or or or whichever of a bunch of other methods to ease the migration pains. Only 2 cents on the topic. Errr ... pointless 2 cents nm ... sighs.

Remember seeing a post, linked to somewhere in these forums. Where Clem said he's spending 2.5 hrs a day working on LM. Do the math there, considering it's opensource software, with a few ways of making revenue but no pricetag. That's quite a bit of time sunk in, by one person involved. Think about it ...

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Re: Mint Needs an Upgrade Option (survey)

Postby sunewbie » Mon Dec 05, 2011 7:44 am

If you are comfortable with manual install, then fresh install is better.

Ubuntu keeps changing defaults apps. So after a successful upgrade, you have more than one app for one application e.g. rhythmbox and banshee. I do not use either, I use clementine.

Fresh install does not eat much time than upgrade. Infact, to upgrade Ubuntu (which I did from 9.1 to 10.04), i had to first install all updates, which is not necessary in this case.

Vincent is right, you need to create a poll
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Re: Mint Needs an Upgrade Option (survey)

Postby wyrdoak » Mon Dec 05, 2011 10:39 am

I think this what LM HQ is trying to do with LMDE. Doing this with Debian would give more positive results in updating/upgrading.

While pooling his resources [ie. us] He gets a lot of documentation he needs before he releases an upgrade packet.

Let's look at his resources. He has people in the forum documenting for Debian SID. Others documenting for Debian testing.
He also has people to test and document his upgrade packets for Mint. After all that, then and only then he sends out and upgrade packet.

Right now you haven't seen any upgrade packets for he is waiting from Debian to catchup to were he whats to take Linux Mint.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is what I've been seeing as I watch the forum.
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