Mint 13 again disappointed

[MauriceW]

Greetings

I have just registered on the Linux Mint forum
so that I can express my continued disappointment with Linux and now Linux Mint.

Over the years I have repeatedly tried varius Linux offerings (RedHat, Suse, etc. etc. and settled on Ubuntu).
In the early cases, getting hardware recognised ( printers, usb drives etc.)
was well-nigh impossible without becoming a linux expert.

More recently these difficulties have almost dissappeared
but current disappointment continues for the following reasons:-

1) Both Ubuntu 12.04 and Linux Mint 13 each automatically download about 200MB of Language Packs
none of which I want. I recall the same happened 6 months ago with Mint 12 and Ubuntu 11.
Despite many criticisms in many forums, it seems that the installation programmers
continue to be unaware that many people do not have superfast internet connections nor unlimited download amounts.
Why cannot the installation process offer an option for these packs ?

2) In a similar light with both Ubuntu and Mint, having got them up and running
the novice user is expected to sort through and decide about many more megabytes of security and system updates and upgrades
the terms used having little or no meaning for the novice user.

2) Having installed checked that my Mint 13 DVD booted OK I installed Mint 13 onto a 8GB flash drive.
It hung part way into the boot process with an unhelpful message that something couldn't be found.
Mint 12 worked OK, but I replaced it with 13. !!
This forum shows several users having various installation problems.

I am about to try Ubuntu 12.04 from a USB stick but my enthusiasm is waning.


My System:
HP dv7 running Win 7 (32) in a LAN with 3 other PCs running XP (Home & Pro) and Win 7 (64bit)

I should add that I have read the Mint 13 release notes and the usermanual ,
which I completely transformed into a 15 page rtf file from the 50 page pdf.
Unfortunately Ubuntu doesn't have a usermanual and the online help is far from convenient
unless you can run it on a separate PC which I do.

So my problems are not for want of doing my homework.

If I ,as a relatively experience PC user, have this view of Linux
is it any wonder that Linux sytems account for only a few percent of worldwide OS usage ?
The learning curve from Windows to Linux is just too steep.

No doubt I shall have another exploration of Linux in 6 months.

Regards
MauriceW

[monkeyboy]

Its OK Linux is not for everyone. Enjoy Metro.

[abnvolk]

My advice - disconnect the internet during the installation - it won't download language packs. And remember to remove ubiquity-slideshow package.
About the update - why would you think it is not easy for novice user? Just because it is different from Windows doesn't mean it is difficult - it's just experienced users who become too accustomed to Windows - they keep asking where is the registry, where are the program files, where are the exe for setup... And hey, if you don't want to use the package manager, use the Software Manager instead. It is simple.
And if you read some other helpful links on the forum, you should know a little bit about packages and the way they work in Linux.
Last words - try Windows 8 and see if the learning curve is steep or not

[MauriceW]

monkeyboy - your point taken

abnvolk - many thanks for your suggestions
- in the past I had disconnected internet before installation
but the Mint13 userguide on page 12 specifically says to ensure internet is working before installation
and I doubt that a novice would disobey the official userguide.

Yes, one usually likes the system your used to and I guess I'm used to menus
since I've been using them in Windows 3 to 7 for 20 years.

After some perseverance, I now have both UBUNTU 12 and Mint 13 runnable from usb pendrives.
My previous problems were probably due to trying to get them to boot properly into my HP dv7
whilst the second display unit was connected.
Booting the first time with only the "laptop" display allowed the second display unit to be connected later,
without which, I'm quite lost.

Indeed I am writing this reply from inside Mint with both displays working perfectly.
Without too much hassle, I also got to print your comments on an aged Epson C65 installed on a LAN Acer 1700 laptop
so Linux hardware compatibility cannot now be faulted.

Regarding your final comment, one reason for my interest in Linux
is that I doubt that I will be moving to Windows 8 nor to IE9 for that matter.
I intend to invest some time on the Mint and Ubuntu desktops and in getting familiar with the Software and Packet managers.

Thanks again for your interest

MauriceW

[PiMinto]

My advice - disconnect the internet during the installation - it won't download language packs.

I'd done that, and update manager included them in every update it attempted until I eventually allowed it just to get it over with.

MauriceW, I think we all need to be patient. This isn't a completed product, it's a work in progress and it's coming along nicely I agree there are a few small issues, like the above, that seem like they'd be simple to take care of, but from the developing end it's probably not so simple.

[abnvolk]

PiMinto - I don't have upgrades for all of the languages, just for English - the selected language. I think you should delete some languages in Language Support.
MauriceW - It's good to see that you have managed to solve some of the problems. Sorry for the word - it is a bit strong . You know, when I first tried Ubuntu, I screwed up my computer, and I had waited for 2 years to try it again...
The documentation for Linux Mint is incomplete - it is just for MATE version only, and I think it's not good to use online manual like this. I like the old local "Help" application... If we can make something as a Help and Support application, it would be very good for novice users
Lastly, IE9 is quite the same Anyway, I'm using Google Chrome in 7 and Chromium in Mint

[tdockery97]

Glad it worked out for you MauriceW. I've been using Mint for the past 2-1/2 years, and I have found that Mint 13 can be a challenge to find the one that works best on your pc. I have tried all the editions, and settled on Xfce as it is simple, fast, and just works without bugs and glitches.

[GeneC]

.....1) Both Ubuntu 12.04 and Linux Mint 13 each automatically download about 200MB of Language Packs
none of which I want. I recall the same happened 6 months ago with Mint 12 and Ubuntu 11.
Despite many criticisms in many forums, it seems that the installation programmers
continue to be unaware that many people do not have superfast internet connections nor unlimited download amounts.
Why cannot the installation process offer an option for these packs ?......................

Regards
MauriceW

Yes, no need to have many languages on your computer, if you only know one or two....
I've always removed several hundred megabytes of unnecessary 'locales' after a new installation.

There are two ways.

1. Bleach bit. (Its in the repos)
Option below lets you choose which to keep and which to purge permanently.


2. There is also a command line program (also in the repos)
That let you choose (during its installation) which language packs (locales) to purge.
Its "localepurge"

After installing run

Code: Select all

sudo localepurge

Well worth installing.

[MauriceW]

PiMinto - Exactly - "been there, done that" - thats what triggered my irritation

abnvolk - the usermanual referred to was indeed for MATE version of MINT 13
- your further comments are appreciated

tdockery97 - it is my intention to try the other versions of Mint13 desktops
so I'll try Xfce first after reading the info on Xfce
in the announcements section at top of "Installation and Boot"

GeneC - thanks for the details on housekeeping - I'll certainly lookinto this
It will give me some practice with Software and Package Managers and with the Terminal

Regards to all

MauriceW

[MauriceW]

Greetings - Herewith a status update.

My renewed interest in Linux started about 10 days ago
after I had got Win XP Pro and XPHome guests,(Host Win 7), on my HP dv7 via VMWarePlayer.
I found it very convenient to be able to move between Win 7 and XP without needing to reboot
with access to all my devices and all my documents.
The same capability with Linux would be interesting would have facilitated getting familiar with linux
especially if it could become an alternative to Windows 8.

Hence I downloaded ISOs for Ubuntu 12.04 (already had 11.10 & 11.04)
then Linux Mint 13MATE (already had Mint12) -later I also got Mint Xfce.
All booted OK from their CD/DVDs
but of course had to be reconfigured for printers and dual monitors etc. after each new boot.

After 2 or 3 days and 8 attempts I had only been able to get Mint Xfce guest working with any degree of usfulness
errors being "sm bus controller not enabled" and no access to shared devices on the host HDDs.
It also proved impossible to get VMWare Tools installed or reinstalled.
(Suggestions such as to mount & unmount CD Drives and issue commands from the terminal are not really helpful
especially when it is not clear how to start the terminal)

That was about the time I started this thread.

I also explored getting these Linux distros booting from Pen drives with varying degrees of success.

Ubuntu (via Rufus) only boots successfully sometimes (e.g. "unable to find live file system")
and when it does start- cannot find LAN printers but does offer access to Host HDDs.
Mint (MATE) (via UniversalUSBinstaller) accesses Host HDDs , gets printers,
but forgets setting after the next reboot.
(I have not yet tried MintXfce on flash).

I did manage to use BleachBit on one case to remove ~50MB of the ~150MB unwanted downloaded language packs.

Googling for these and other problems finds much discussion in varius forums
- so I take heart from the fact that I'm not alone.

Once again my interest in Linux has waned and I'm almost totally confused about what works and what does'nt
so its time to give it a rest.

All in all I see no reason to change the title of this thread
and the moderator can close it if thought necessary but "SOLVED" would hardly be appropriate.

Thanks to those who tried to help.

MauriceW

[jrpz]

I have a slow internet connection and don't want to download unwanted language packs for several hours. I have been reading the .pdf file description of the installation of Mint 5 (p.24 of 86 of official user guide, main edition, v1) and note that in that version, selection of english as the installation language enabled a 'skip' option on the installation of language packs which if re-introduced would solve Maurice's problem, mine also and no doubt bypass an unnecessary procedure for many people.
How about it fellas?

[MauriceW]

Greetings,

jrpz - thanks for support

This update from within a virtual Mint Cinnamon guest in Win7 host via VMwarePlayer on HPdv7

SInce last post a week ago, like a dog with a bone, I have persevered.
Some of my experience might help others.

1) Installed Ubuntu12 to dual boot with existing XPPro on spare ASUS m2n box -
- Initiall only saw blank screen then Ubuntu started after a long wait - no sign of grub menu
- eventually (2 days later) fixed by editing /etc/default/grub which by default didn't display grub !!!!
See http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p= ... tcount=800
and http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1743535

2) Created virtual U12s in VirtualBox and in VMWarePlayer
- VMware boot error smbus not connected
- fixed by editing /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist.conf add line "blacklist i2c_piix4"
http://communities.vmware.com/thread/144562
- great difficulty getting VB Guest Additions to persist after restart - same with VMWare Tools
- eventually (3 days later) sorted out how to see shared folders in hosts
- getting LAN printers working also very uncertain - no mp3 suopport

3) Created virtual Mint13 via VMWare (Mate, Xfce and Cinnamon) with varying degrees of success
- have not yet sorted why "display is unknown" so cannot use dual monitors
- ability to work on shared documents in host proves to be very uncertain
(who would think to look in /mnt/hgfs ???)
- but printers seen automatically - and mp3 support OK
- Cinnamon has hung several times - ?? a display driver problem with the GT230M and gallium.


So - progres has been made at the cost of ~ 4000MB downloads and two weeks.
Its fortunate that I am retired and need something to fill my time in winter.

Regards

Maurice