Installation on external Drive not possible

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linux-krause
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Installation on external Drive not possible

Post by linux-krause » Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:52 pm

Hi, I am new here and hope to get som help for my installation problem.
I have a new laptop with preinstalled UEFI-Windows 10. SecureBoot is disabled. Like many times in the past I wanted to install also for this computer a Linux Rescue System on an external harddisk. So I can boot the Laptop normally from a Cinnamon 18.3 USB-Stick with the downloaded iso. All works fine. Now I want to install the system to the harddrive. I choose "something other" and assigned / with ext4 to the first partition and Swap to the second partition of the disk. For the bootloader I also choose the harddisk, because if it is not connected to the computer, I don't want a boot menu. < Is this correct?
Now I reach the choice of the timezone and then fill in name and password. After this the screen freezes! Several minutes is something written to the harddisk, but finally the whole system stands still, so that the only thing I can do is turning off the power.
Now, if I try to boot from the harddisk, it seems to work: I get a grub boot menu. But if I start now the booting, the system stands still after a while and the screen is empty - nothing more happens.
Because I have in addition to the Intel graphic a Nvidia graphic card built in, I tried all the options which are suggested here in the forum - driver update, compatibility mode, nomodeset - nothing works. Sometimes I can view for a very short moment a text line with acpi-error. But this is to short to read, I don't understand this.
One thing is of course working: If I switch to bios mode and boot with an older harddisk! But this is not very comfortable - Windows will not boot now.
So what can I do? Thank you for your help!

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austin.texas
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Re: Installation on external Drive not possible

Post by austin.texas » Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:10 pm

If you want to dual-boot Windows and Mint follow these tutorials.

First we need to check to see if Windows is still there - boot your live Mint USB, open a terminal (ctrl+alt+t), and post the result of the command:

Code: Select all

sudo parted --list
Last edited by austin.texas on Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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michael louwe
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Re: Installation on external Drive not possible

Post by michael louwe » Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:59 am

@ linux-krause, .......
linux-krause wrote:...
.
Please refer to Two Drives UEFI Install at ... https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2147295 (UEFI Installing - Tips )[A workaround is to unplug the Win 8.x/10 internal hard-drive and install LM on the external USB hard-drive = plug in the external USB hard-drive only when you want to boot LM.]
https://nwrickert2.wordpress.com/2013/0 ... and-linux/ (notes-on-uefi-windows-and-linux)
https://askubuntu.com/questions/380447/ ... ew-machine (uefi-boot-fails-when-cloning-image-to-new-machine)

Ensure that Fast Startup is disabled in Win 10, ie >Control Panel >Power options.

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Re: Installation on external Drive not possible

Post by linux-krause » Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:50 am

At first: Thank you for your answers. It took me some time to read all the stuff you mentioned. But this was not really helpful, because either I have done the suggestions in my installation-preparings or I didn't understand them at all. The purpose of unplug the Windows harddisk is not so practicable, because I don't like to open my notebook. It would be fine if there is another way!
So what I have done is:
- disabled hibernate in Windows with the command "powercfg –h off"
- verified this in the Windows Registry
- there is no entry "Fast Startup" in the Windows 10 ower options!
mint@mint ~ $ sudo parted -l
Model: ATA Samsung SSD 850 (scsi)
Disk /dev/sda: 250GB
Sector size (logical/physical): 512B/512B
Partition Table: gpt
Disk Flags:
Number Start End Size File system Name Flags
1 17.4kB 134MB 134MB msftres
2 135MB 607MB 472MB ntfs diag
3 607MB 712MB 105MB fat32 boot, esp
4 712MB 249GB 249GB ntfs msftdata
5 249GB 250GB 833MB ntfs hidden, diag
Model: ATA Samsung SSD 850 (scsi)
Disk /dev/sdb: 500GB
Sector size (logical/physical): 512B/512B
Partition Table: gpt
Disk Flags:
Number Start End Size File system Name Flags
1 17.4kB 134MB 134MB Microsoft reserved partition msftres
2 135MB 322GB 322GB ntfs Basic data partition msftdata
3 322GB 500GB 178GB ntfs Basic data partition msftdata
Warning: The driver descriptor says the physical block size is 2048 bytes, but
Linux says it is 512 bytes. <----------------- looks strange? Should be repaired?
Ignore/Cancel? i
Model: Intenso Alu Line (scsi)
Disk /dev/sdc: 16.3GB
Sector size (logical/physical): 2048B/512B
Partition Table: mac
Disk Flags:
Number Start End Size File system Name Flags
1 2048B 6143B 4096B Apple
2 1894MB 1897MB 2392kB EFI

And some other perhaps useful informations:
mint@mint ~ $ mount | grep efivars
efivarfs on /sys/firmware/efi/efivars type efivarfs (rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime)

mint@mint ~ $ sudo apt-get install efibootmgr
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree
Reading state information... Done
efibootmgr is already the newest version (0.12-4).
0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 1 not upgraded.

mint@mint ~ $ sudo dmidecode -t 0
# dmidecode 3.0
Getting SMBIOS data from sysfs.
SMBIOS 3.0.0 present.

Handle 0x0000, DMI type 0, 24 bytes
BIOS Information
Vendor: American Megatrends Inc.
Version: 1.05.14
Release Date: 06/15/2017
Address: 0xF0000
Runtime Size: 64 kB
ROM Size: 16384 kB
Characteristics:
PCI is supported
BIOS is upgradeable
BIOS shadowing is allowed
Boot from CD is supported
Selectable boot is supported
BIOS ROM is socketed
EDD is supported
Print screen service is supported (int 5h)
8042 keyboard services are supported (int 9h)
Printer services are supported (int 17h)
ACPI is supported
USB legacy is supported
BIOS boot specification is supported
Targeted content distribution is supported
UEFI is supported
BIOS Revision: 5.12

mint@mint ~ $ sudo dmidecode -t 1
# dmidecode 3.0
Getting SMBIOS data from sysfs.
SMBIOS 3.0.0 present.
Handle 0x0001, DMI type 1, 27 bytes
System Information
Manufacturer: Notebook
Product Name: N85_N87,HJ,HJ1,HK1
Version: Not Applicable
Serial Number: Not Applicable
UUID: 485BFA80-8F8B-0000-0000-000000000000
Wake-up Type: Power Switch
SKU Number: Not Applicable
Family: Not Applicable

mint@mint ~ $ sudo efibootmgr -v
BootCurrent: 0003
Timeout: 1 seconds
BootOrder: 0001,0002,0003,0004
Boot0001* Windows Boot Manager HD(3,GPT,3d335822-fa63-45d6-8194-e27214cc18bc,0x121800,0x32000)/File(\EFI\MICROSOFT\BOOT\BOOTMGFW.EFI)WINDOWS.........x...B.C.D.O.B.J.E.C.T.=.{.9.d.e.a.8.6.2.c.-.5.c.d.d.-.4.e.7.0.-.a.c.c.1.-.f.3.2.b.3.4.4.d.4.7.9.5.}...a................
Boot0002* ubuntu HD(3,GPT,3d335822-fa63-45d6-8194-e27214cc18bc,0x121800,0x32000)/File(\EFI\UBUNTU\SHIMX64.EFI)..BO
Boot0003* UEFI: Intenso Alu Line PciRoot(0x0)/Pci(0x14,0x0)/USB(10,0)/CDROM(1,0x3873dc,0x4900)..BO
Boot0004* UEFI: Intenso Alu Line, Partition 1 PciRoot(0x0)/Pci(0x14,0x0)/USB(10,0)/HD(1,MBR,0x4294967270,0x3873dc,0x1240)..BO

By reading the artikles you mentioned, I found advices about the ESP - efi system partition. I didn'd understood them at all. Should I also create such an ESP - efi system partition on the USB-Harddisk and choose this for the bootloader? Or should I choose partition 3 of the first windows SSD for the bootloader? In my tryings I always choosed the root of the USB-harddisk!

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austin.texas
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Re: Installation on external Drive not possible

Post by austin.texas » Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:51 am

linux-krause wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:50 am
By reading the artikles you mentioned, I found advices about the ESP - efi system partition. I didn'd understood them at all. Should I also create such an ESP - efi system partition on the USB-Harddisk and choose this for the bootloader? Or should I choose partition 3 of the first windows SSD for the bootloader? In my tryings I always choosed the root of the USB-harddisk!
Your ESP is listed as sda3 - the third partition on sda (the 250GB drive). That is the correct location for the bootloader.
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Re: Installation on external Drive not possible

Post by lostfarmer » Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:02 am

The linux command "parted -l" shows 3 hdd's but there is no linux partitions on any of them. So where is the linux hdd ?

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michael louwe
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Re: Installation on external Drive not possible

Post by michael louwe » Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:52 pm

@ linux-krause, .......
linux-krause wrote:...
.
To install LM on an external USB hard-drive alongside Win 10 on the internal hard-drive of a UEFI laptop, follow this tutorial ... https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2338836 (Details on full UEFI install to flash drive or any external drive) which is found at the 1st link that I had provided above.
... It's quite complicated = for tech-geeks only.

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Re: Installation on external Drive not possible

Post by linux-krause » Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:36 pm

lostfarmer wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:02 am
The linux command "parted -l" shows 3 hdd's but there is no linux partitions on any of them. So where is the linux hdd ?
At this time, I had not plugged in the USB drive with the linux partitions, so that it was not visible. In my Laptop are 2 built-in SSDs: /dev/sda: 250GB and /dev/sdb: 500GB.
michael louwe wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:52 pm
To install LM on an external USB hard-drive alongside Win 10 on the internal hard-drive of a UEFI laptop, follow this tutorial ... https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2338836 (Details on full UEFI install to flash drive or any external drive) which is found at the 1st link that I had provided above.
... It's quite complicated = for tech-geeks only.
Thank you very much. I think I will try this - it seems to be well explained. But it will take me several days because of buisiness needs of my laptop - maybe it is a little bit dangerous :roll:

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Re: Installation on external Drive not possible

Post by pbear » Sat Feb 17, 2018 12:49 am

FWIW, I've done a lot of research on this problem. I don't like install-and-repair but if you're going to do it, I think this tutorial fits your situation better, as it was developed for a Windows system, whereas the Halbarad tutorial assumes your main system is using Ubuntu.

Actually, though, I think the best solution is a variant of one you mentioned in the OP, i.e., installing in BIOS mode. The trick is to do the installation a particular way, add the EFI bootloader manually, then switch back to UEFI mode.* This way, the installer won't disrupt your Windows bootloader, so there's nothing to repair. Also, because you end up in UEFI mode, Windows will boot fine. I've used the method many times and describe the steps in detail in this thread.

* If your laptop lets you use legacy boot on a session basis, you don't even need to switch and revert the system. (You only need BIOS mode for the installation; afterwards, the USB drive boots in UEFI.) Alternatively, if you have an old Windows 7 machine hanging around (or can borrow one), you could use that.

By the way, you do have Fast Start and need to disable it for Linux to be able to read your internal drives. It's not a BIOS/UEFI setting. Rather, boot up Windows; go to Control Panel: Power Options: Power Button; click Change Settings, then uncheck fast start.

Hope that helps. Good luck.
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Re: Installation on external Drive not possible

Post by linux-krause » Sat Feb 17, 2018 6:19 pm

@ pbear:
Thank you, your solution really looks a little bit more handy!

But, what I don't understand now: why can I boot the Live system whithout any problems? When I turn on my laptop and press F7, the stick is shown and I can easily start Linux. Is it perhaps the simplest way to create a live drive with persistent storage to store little individual data like my wlan account? Perhaps the LinuxLive USB Creator can do this!

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Re: Installation on external Drive not possible

Post by pbear » Sun Feb 18, 2018 12:27 am

Sorry, I don't understand your first question. Mint will boot a live session in UEFI. Indeed, it installs fine in UEFI if the target is an internal drive. What causes a problem is booting the live session in UEFI then installing to an external drive. The strategy I'm recommending gets around this problem, but the live session must be started in BIOS mode (also known as legacy boot or CRM).

As regards persistence, that's a different solution. Not nearly as good as full install, IMHO, but relatively simple if you don't expect much. FYI, LiveLinux USB Creator doesn't support any version of Mint after 17.2. Instead, you should use Universal USB Installer or MultiBootUSB. Both work in Windows. UUI is simpler, MBU lets you put several systems on one drive.

Be aware persistence for both is limited to 4 GB, but that's enough for settings and an application or two. There is a way to do a larger persistent drive but it's more complicated than full install by the method I linked above, to get something which doesn't work as well.
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Re: Installation on external Drive not possible

Post by michael louwe » Sun Feb 18, 2018 3:54 am

@ linux-krause, .......
linux-krause wrote:But, what I don't understand now: why can I boot the Live system whithout any problems?
.
AFAIK, the UEFI standard requires the OEMs to pre-load a standard or common EFI bootloader(= bootx64.efi.?) for the various removable bootable devices, eg USB-drives, DVD-drives, networked drives, etc, in the UEFI-BIOS firmware = all Windows Recovery/Install or Live Linux USB/DVD can be booted.
... This is different when a bootloader is installed during the install process, ie the bootloader has to be registered in the UEFI-BIOS firmware or NVRAM(eg grubx64.efi), installed in the EFI System(Boot) Partition and the boot data(eg Grub menu) stored in the System or Root partition. Hence, Secure Boot in UEFI-BIOS setup only allows certified or signed bootloaders to be registered in the firmware or NVRAM.

In practice, the OEMs also pre-load the Win 10 bootloader(= bootmgr.efi) in the UEFI-BIOS firmware of their new Win 10 computers = Win 10 can always be booted in such computers. The bootloaders of other installed OS may not be bootable, eg the UEFI-BIOS setting for "select an UEFI file as trusted for executing" in Acer, Asus and HP computers.

In comparison, in pre-2012 Legacy BIOS computers, the BIOS firmware is not involved when bootloaders are installed on the internal hard drive during the install process, ie it is only involved when booting various removable bootable devices.
Last edited by michael louwe on Sun Feb 18, 2018 12:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Installation on external Drive not possible

Post by austin.texas » Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:28 am

In addition to pbear's tutorial there is another way to create a bootable UEFI installation on a USB.
Boot your live Mint and open Gparted. Create a GPT partition table on the USB drive.
In Gparted, right-click on the existing EFI partition on the internal hard drive > Copy
Right-click on the unallocated space on the USB drive > Paste
This duplicate EFI partition serves no purpose other than a placeholder, to reserve the space for the EFI partition, and will be replaced later.
Then proceed with the installation of Mint to the USB drive. Because UEFI is stupid, the bootloader information will be recorded to the EFI partition on the internal hard drive, sda. So when the installation is complete, open Gparted again, and do the Copy / Paste operation again. You will have to Delete the existing EFI partition on the USB drive first, to give yourself unallocated space when you can paste the new improved version.
But you are not done... there is one more step.
by srs5694 » Fri Nov 13, 2015 8:30 pm

A normal installation of Mint will store GRUB as EFI/ubuntu/grubx64.efi on the EFI System Partition (ESP). This filename is not hard-coded on most PCs, though; it's stored in NVRAM as part of the installation process. If you move the disk to another computer, it will of course have different NVRAM than the original, so that entry won't work. To boot on any random computer, you must use the "fallback filename" -- EFI/BOOT/bootx64.efi. Thus, you need to rename EFI/ubuntu to EFI/BOOT and rename either grubx64.efi or shimx64.efi in that directory to bootx64.efi. (Renaming grubx64.efi will work with Secure Boot disabled, whereas renaming shimx64.efi will work on most computers with or without Secure Boot.)
viewtopic.php?t=219915#p1153621

And there is a third way... https://www.dionysopoulos.me/253-portab ... b-hdd.html

Of course, all this nonsense can be avoided by installing Mint to the USB drive in Legacy/CSM mode instead of UEFI.
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