Ubuntu installs while Mint chokes?

[gnat]

I need some help but I am also going to suggest that Mint, as perhaps the top choice for people coming from Windows, could use some more polish in making installation for inexperienced Linux users easier.

My situation: I have a fair amount of years-ago experience in unix .. but for Linux I am new and I am looking for escaping Windows 7. I set up about 5 different partitions under Windows 7 so 4 of them would be available for various trials of different Linux distributions. I got the Mint Cinnamon 18.3, I think, ISO on a USB.

I wanted to "Install Linux Mint alongside Windows 7". I get to "Install LInux Mint alongside Windows 7". <Continue>

Mint install to hard disk didn't show all my partitions but said there were "6 smaller partitions are hidden, use the advanced partitioning tool for more control.
I click the suggested link.
My partitions show up AND THERE IS *ZERO* HELP. I had labelled all the partitions carefully under Windows, but maybe there is a technical reason Linux can't access this information. Is there really no way or is this just lame? Ok..I pick a suitable partition based on size (so I know it isn't one of Windows required partitions).

I highlight the partition to use and click "Install Now" (not going to subdivide it nor change it).
>>popup: "NO ROOT FILE SYSTEM. Please correct this from the partitioning menu"
I click <OK> HOW DO I DO THIS?? There is NO HELP.
>>popup: "Edit partition". and try to change "do not use the partition" to ... Ext4 (although this is UNDOCUMENTED...Why is it undocumented and not suggested as a
default at least?)
I try "Install now" and get
>>popup: "NO ROOT FILE SYSTEM. Please correct this from the partitioning menu"
I GUESS I have to set a "Mount point" (BUT WHY DO I HAVE TO **GUESS**??? LAME.
I click under "Mount Point" and select "/" (I MEAN THERE IS ***ZERO*** HELP ON WHAT IS A GOOD DEFAULT CHOICE AND THAT IS FIRST)
>>popup: "DO YOU WANT TO RETURN TO THE PARTITIONING MENU? NO MOUNT POINT IS ASSIGNED...if you do not go back ...and assign a mount point ...this partition
won't be used at all."
Hmmm. I go back and select "/boot" as the second on the list.

And so it goes. How do you drive a potential new user crazy? Put him in a round room and tell him to go pee in a corner."
The LAST time I tried this (before rebooting the computer to take you guys step by step through this) the popup window HUNG and would accept neither "Go back" nor "Continue".

Anyway, there is a reason Windows continues to rule. It is still absurdly hard to switch. I am taking the time to constructively criticize what should, ideally, be a simple process. I am very aware (and impressed) how much work has gone into the graphics and visuals since the last time I tried to install a Linux, maybe 15 years ago.

But geeks designing UI for geeks isn't going to get Linux to the desktop for most users. I'd highly suggest the implementors find an intelligent non geek to test out the nuances of installation and invest time here. People can't see how beautiful the inside of the linux "house" is if you won't help them through the front door.

Now...can anyone suggest my next move? I can play from USB but I'm pretty sure I want to install...if the install "Something else" code would just be a *little* bit more helpful.

Thanks!

[gnat]

This is a followup on my earlier post asking how to install on one of 6 partitions shared on a Windows 7 machine.

After being frustrated with Mint Cinnamon install -- 18.3 I think -- I decided to try Ubuntu.

I got a little depressed when I saw what appeared to be the same "Something Else" detour to handle my multiple partitions.

BUT I WAS WRONG. UBUNTU HANDLED "/" AS A MOUNT POINT WITHOUT EVEN BLINKING. It advised me to create swap space but then proceeded to install SEEMLESSLY.

SO THIS IS A LINUX MINT ***BUG*** And it is a really serious bug, or should be considered as one, precisely because it will discourage (actually prevent) "newbies" from adopting Mint.

If there is ONE place in the code where Linux cannot afford to skimp or take shortcuts it is ease of install. Suggest this get fixed pronto.

Indeed, as a constructive criticism I suggest EVERY Mint version start off with taking an intelligent NON LINUX NON TECHIE and watching them struggle to make their way coming off of Windows. And FIX every obstacle they run into.

Why hasn't Linux succeeded on the desktop after 25 years? Because Linux is still its own worst enemy when it comes to K.I.S.S. principle ... and not skimping on documentation for the install process.

Anyway, I thought you guys might want to know this is a major problem -- which Ubuntu navigates easily with approximately the same install code.
---
Followup. I just booted successfully into Ubuntu 16.04 from an easy install on one of my six hard disk partitions. I can't say I like the desktop near as much as that of Linux Mint Cinnamon...but at least I got through the gauntlet with no troubles at all. When it comes to adoption, it doesn't matter how nice you make Mint inside if you make it completely unfriendly at the entry door.

“We have become the tool of our tools.”― Henry David Thoreau

[michael louwe]

@ gnat, .......

...

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The Ubuntu and LM installation process are practically the same.

To dual-boot or install an OS alongside another OS using the manual "Something else" install option is beyond the capabilities of most Newbies = they require a Tutorial, eg ... viewtopic.php?f=42&t=122276 (manual partitioning Tutorial for Legacy BIOS mode and MBR/ms-dos disks).
... The automatic "Install LM alongside Windows" option is also usually pretty straight forward for most Newbies. In your case, it was your "abnormal" Win 7 partitioning which prevented the use of this install option.

Most newbies are capable of single-booting or doing a clean install of one OS only because it is usually done automatically for them, eg by using LM Installer's automatic "Erase disk and install LM" option. Similarly for a Newbie doing a clean install of Win 7.
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Also, ...

for some guidance on dual-booting LM alongside Win 10/8.1 in UEFI and GPT-disk mode, please refer to .......
viewtopic.php?f=42&t=163126 (dual-booting UEFI computers)
http://linuxmint-installation-guide.rea ... en/latest/
https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2147295
https://sites.google.com/site/easylinux ... ct/windows
https://sites.google.com/site/easylinux ... nt-install
https://www.tecmint.com/install-linux-m ... uefi-mode/ (note step 17)
viewtopic.php?f=42&t=122276 (manual partitioning Tutorial for Legacy BIOS mode and MBR/ms-dos disks)[use as a guide]

Ensure that Secure Boot, Fast Boot and CSM(or Legacy BIOS) are disabled in BIOS setup, Fast Startup is disabled in Win 10/8.1(>Control Panel >Power options), the Live LM media(DVD or USB-stick) is booted in UEFI mode in BIOS setup.

To dual-boot, you only need to pre-shrink the Windows partition if you intend to use the manual "Something else" install method, ie no need to do so if you intend to use the automatic "install LM alongside Windows Boot Manager" method, which will be followed by the LM Installer auto-partitioning the disk and auto-installing the Linux Grub bootloader onto the Windows ESP. Only a root / and swap partition will be auto-created with a total default size of about 20GB. The user will be given the option to increase this default size by moving a slider on the colored Partition table, subject to the maximum available free space in the Windows partition.

For the "Something else" install method, manually partition the pre-shrunk free space accordingly, eg 50GB for /, 1.5X RAM size for Swap(at the end of this space) and 200GB for Home; and ensure that the "Device for boot loader installation" is the Windows EFI System Partition(= ESP = fat32/about 104MB/mount point is /boot/efi) which is usually dev/sda1.
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P S - Certain OEM Win 8.x/10 computers, eg Acer, Asus and HP, have an obstructive or pro-M$ UEFI-BIOS setting for "select an UEFI file as trusted for executing",(= Linux cannot boot). For the fix, please refer to ...
https://itsfoss.com/no-bootable-device-found-ubuntu/
viewtopic.php?t=236560

The above latest(= 2017) OEM laptops, eg Acer E and S series, may have even removed this UEFI-BIOS setting(eg "No bootable device" after installing Linux and cannot be fixed), but may be restored by a new BIOS firmware update from the OEMs = update through Windows only. This was after many complaints from affected users. ...
viewtopic.php?f=46&t=254948
... Another workaround is ...
https://askubuntu.com/questions/862946/ ... re-es1-533

Sometimes to boot from the Live LM USB Flash-drive in new Acer computers, eg Acer ES 15, you need to enable the F12 boot menu in the Main section of the BIOS setup, then pressed F12 instead of F2 during power up. Will then be given the option of Windows Boot Manager or Linux (Flash-drive).

[gnat]

I will try your suggestions and hopefully succeed with the Mint install in a few days. Yes, I know the Mint install is practically the same as the Ubuntu install; I read MInt uses Ubuntu as a base and, as I relayed, I got shunted to the same more complicated install code. But the Ubuntu install with multiple partitions worked easily on a first attempt while Mint hung (forcing a hard-boot) and never worked. So, there appears to be a bug or three in that section of the Mint install code -- maybe borrow a more recent version of the Ubuntu code base for that "advanced" install and see if there is a lesson. My comment about being more helpful with documentation of the options stands for both Linux versions -- although Ubuntu largely made this moot by just WORKING on the first attempt. When something doesn't work with the sorts of direct error messages I got under Mint, the user reasonably assumes they are simply ignorant. And that is what I assumed (except for the hang, which obviously indicates a serious bug as no window should refuse to let you exit. So I put in quite a bit of time trying to figure it out -- and including trying to get authorized to ask what I thought would be a quick question here.

I apologize for my post coming across as kind of snarky; I was kind of tired. I hope someone who works on the install code will look into my difficulties, as Ubuntu shows they were MINT -- and not even simple ignorance -- caused.

I also suggest the forum moderators stop treating registration for the forum as if they need to protect Fort Knox. Ideally a "guest" should be allowed to post to at least an "Install Problems" thread without registering at all. The level of supposed "protection" this forum enforces on people who want to ask a quick question really is ABSURD... not to mention unfriendly and ANTI-safe. Why do I say "anti-safe" because there are plenty of studies from security firms proving that ARBITRARY dictats surrounding passwords are a vastly greater security risk than simply *suggesting* because the arbitrary rules BREAK algorithms users use to come up with safe passwords, cause frustration, and ultimately force users to WRITE PASSWORDS DOWN WHERE THEY (HOPEFULLY) can find them later.

So this forum's rules of registration are silly, irritating, AND counterproductive. I just wanted to ask a simple install question, for god sake and maybe will never need to post here again....

I AM btw looking to get my MInt partition working. And I don't usually take the time to write this much EXCEPT when I care; so please disregard the tone of the my earlier post and just consider the message. Thanks again for the response.

[MintBean]

So this forum's rules of registration are silly, irritating, AND counterproductive. I just wanted to ask a simple install question, for god sake and maybe will never need to post here again....

Didn't you already do that rant in another thread and get an answer (whether you disagree with it or not)? It's getting a little boring. You're NOT the customer, and nobody is here to serve you. They are all fellow users, some of whom are kind enough to help others. If you approach them in a positive manner, they'll most likely be more inclined to help you.