(SOLVED) I Possibly Have A Convert

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MrGrimm
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(SOLVED) I Possibly Have A Convert

Post by MrGrimm » Sun Dec 16, 2018 6:27 pm

as i have stated in a couple of post my roommate wants to test out mint 19. i want to make this go as smoothly as opossible for him so i'm asking for opinions on he should install. with that said he has two ssd;s. one is m.2 directly connected to the mother board, and the other is on a pcie daughter card for m.2's. being a first time linux user her wants to keep windows which is on the daughter card. he has already run samsung erase on the ssd that's connected to the motherboard's m.2 slot. his system specs are: Thanks

Gigabyte GA-970- Gaming SLI
AMD AM3 8250
8 Gigs DDR
ATI Radeon RX 560
Acer 32 Inch At 1920 x 1080
Samsung MZNTY128HDHP-000L 128 Gig M.2 SSD On Generic PCIE Daughter Card (Win 10 1803)
Samsung 850 EVO 120 Gig M.2 SSD (Reserved For Mint)
1 Terabyte Seagate USB 3.0 Drive
2 - 3 Terabyte Western Digital USB 3.0 Drives
8 Gig Western Digital USB 3.0 Drive 8250
Last edited by MrGrimm on Sun Dec 30, 2018 7:52 am, edited 2 times in total.

redlined

Re: I Possibly Have A Convert

Post by redlined » Sun Dec 16, 2018 7:21 pm

hi MrGrimm!

Since you say roommate "wants to test out mint 19" I'd have him run a live session for a while in order to help decide. regardless, even if later he can't stand LM and wants windows back there would be no big issue since it was setup dualboot so just remove LM...

and if already decided and for sure wants a dualboot then should be not a problem, depending on hardware. Just run install LM from the live session he booted to, and make sure to select "Something else" during initial install screens then he can select exact drive to install LM on and where to put bootloader. If it were me I'd install with a 20GB / (root) and just give the rest to /home as I like to keep them separate for reinstall and not have to start over tweaking everything reasons. Another thing he should consider is the complications encrypting whole drive or just /home may be problematic, better to avoid that and simply store private files in encrypted storage space.

oh, and encourage him to make a forum profile and join the fun!

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Re: I Possibly Have A Convert

Post by MrGrimm » Sun Dec 16, 2018 7:46 pm

redlined wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 7:21 pm
hi MrGrimm!

Since you say roommate "wants to test out mint 19" I'd have him run a live session for a while in order to help decide. regardless, even if later he can't stand LM and wants windows back there would be no big issue since it was setup dualboot so just remove LM...

and if already decided and for sure wants a dualboot then should be not a problem, depending on hardware. Just run install LM from the live session he booted to, and make sure to select "Something else" during initial install screens then he can select exact drive to install LM on and where to put bootloader. If it were me I'd install with a 20GB / (root) and just give the rest to /home as I like to keep them separate for reinstall and not have to start over tweaking everything reasons. Another thing he should consider is the complications encrypting whole drive or just /home may be problematic, better to avoid that and simply store private files in encrypted storage space.

oh, and encourage him to make a forum profile and join the fun!
i think the bootloader is going to have to go on the windows ssd sibce it's on the pcie card and doesn't seem to have a setting in the bios to make the os on the m.2 directly on the motherboard the default boot device, the card seems to override the choice you make in the bios. now as for partitions when i installed mine using the default cause i gave it the entire drive it created a 530 meg fat partition and the remaining ext4 with a root folder. works great, so that's what i want for gary.

redlined

Re: I Possibly Have A Convert

Post by redlined » Sun Dec 16, 2018 8:19 pm

MrGrimm wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 7:46 pm
i think the bootloader is going to have to go on the windows ssd sibce it's on the pcie card and doesn't seem to have a setting in the bios to make the os on the m.2 directly on the motherboard the default boot device, the card seems to override the choice you make in the bios. now as for partitions when i installed mine using the default cause i gave it the entire drive it created a 530 meg fat partition and the remaining ext4 with a root folder. works great, so that's what i want for gary.
Really it has a lot to do with is it UEFI or Bios, and if secure boot is enabled then firmware may very well prevent any tampering with windows boot instruction space, as it is designed to do. regardless, system firmware differences will require different approaches.

For the most part, the bootloader instructions you'll want written to the windows boot drive anyways, so a disable of secure boot is usually the order of the day. Once installed Grub has control initially, which he can select Windows and it goes to windows boot instructions or select linux and that gets loaded instead. Otherwise he will be jockeying boot device order settings in UEFI/Bios to switch back and forth between OS.

I suspect this is a modern machine, 64bit UEFI running Win10 OS. If so find the right guide to get it done and do not rely on my thoughts to do this. I have no issue because I remove UEFI from the equation and just install to BIOS legacy mode. I do not think this is an option with a pre-existing Windows OS and a desire to dualboot- so do some due diligence is the true order of the day!

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Re: I Possibly Have A Convert

Post by MrGrimm » Sun Dec 16, 2018 9:11 pm

it's uefi, and secure and fast boot are both off. and i won't use mbr / bios legacy mode for two reason. 1 better security, and 2 more partitions per drive. so in a nutshell yes mint will be installed in uefi / gpt mode, cause with windows that way i would not be able to install mint any other way.

redlined

Re: I Possibly Have A Convert

Post by redlined » Sun Dec 16, 2018 10:07 pm

MrGrimm wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 9:11 pm
it's uefi, and secure and fast boot are both off. and i won't use mbr / bios legacy mode for two reason. 1 better security, and 2 more partitions per drive. so in a nutshell yes mint will be installed in uefi / gpt mode, cause with windows that way i would not be able to install mint any other way.
perfect, sounds like you guys are set!

See if you can coax roommate out of the shadows, after install at least, and say hi from the fresh Mint19, add in some inxi -fxzd results (paste into code block, </> button above post edit box;)

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Re: I Possibly Have A Convert

Post by MrGrimm » Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:34 am

i was considering this again and decided that i'd like to go back to my original plan, and that is to create a image of my drive and place it on the one ssd for gary.
i know i'll need to go in and change username, password, and configure grub. even with whatever i have to do on those 3 fronts i think it will be faster than building him up from scratch. so any help doing this would be great, as for imaging i know boot into the live media, open disk, make my image, take the drive the image is on to his machine, once again use the live media, open disk, and install the image on his one ssd.

redlined

Re: I Possibly Have A Convert

Post by redlined » Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:20 am

MrGrimm wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:34 am
i was considering this again and decided that i'd like to go back to my original plan, and that is to create a image of my drive and place it on the one ssd for gary.
i know i'll need to go in and change username, password, and configure grub. even with whatever i have to do on those 3 fronts i think it will be faster than building him up from scratch. so any help doing this would be great, as for imaging i know boot into the live media, open disk, make my image, take the drive the image is on to his machine, once again use the live media, open disk, and install the image on his one ssd.
hi MrGrimm,

This has a sound of easy but feel it would be more complicated than initially considered as quick and simple way to get it done, even if you both shared the same hardware... and even more awkward may be all your preferences and settings (which I've seen a few threads now, you do have your preferences and go to great lengths to tweak and fine tune them
(as I do for many things :lol:

but really it takes away from his initial learning of the OS he's wanting to experience and may create a sense of support from you rather than community as it would be simple to rationalize this burger king salad clone install was riddled with your preferences and tweaks, sorta thought I was having about it (very convenient initially perhaps, but as we know habits are hard to break, so better to avoid creating or supporting such).

Even the simple concept of dualboot with another OS to experience for first time is a part of the adventure that builds a better immediate appreciation for more control and involvement in running an OS that behaves as you tell it to and expect it to. Taking away from or interfering with that initial learning may taint the entire experience.

Ok, not meaning to sound preachy :roll: so I'll stop with the bad idea thing. Now, how to do it? Whew, even thoroughly checking all the various personal files and 'stuff' doesn't get included (or does and you go about deleting your stuff before turning his computer back over to him) would be an important consideration. As well that username/account settings and details. Do you really want to share username on lan together? if you think just making a new user account, from this image installed on his computer, you have to understand all your stuff will still be present on system, and accessible- and he will still have to install apps, tweak settings and configurations, etc for this new profile (unless you do something like aptik app settings from your old /home to his new /home, ugh... also consider, will permissions on your system remain legitimate and accessible from his if you don't make him a new profile?

That is what an image is, a drop in replacement of your system, type in your password and magic happens. Make a new profile and it's empty and needs setup and preferences set anyways. I have little to add on even the process, which may sound as simple as make image on yours, restore image to his- but I feel it is way more complicated than that and inhibits his initial learning experience. I;m doing it again :lol: I stop now :mrgreen:

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Re: I Possibly Have A Convert

Post by MrGrimm » Mon Dec 17, 2018 12:07 pm

either way i cringe a bit cause i'm the one who usually has to fix mistakes he's made. maybe my original idea is better. install from live environment, change the mount points of the secondary storage drives(makes permissions easier for some programs), install aptik for a baseline backup, install a chat client for us to communicate back and forth so i don't have to keep having to run to his room to help out.

redlined

Re: I Possibly Have A Convert

Post by redlined » Mon Dec 17, 2018 1:02 pm

MrGrimm wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 12:07 pm
either way i cringe a bit cause i'm the one who usually has to fix mistakes he's made. maybe my original idea is better. install from live environment, change the mount points of the secondary storage drives(makes permissions easier for some programs), install aptik for a baseline backup, install a chat client for us to communicate back and forth so i don't have to keep having to run to his room to help out.
lol, hence my continuing recommendation to encourage him to join us here. Otherwise you'll find you are upgrading that chat client to a full VNC/remote shared desktop sort of dependant relationship (since it is your image afterall, you made it you know how to fix it :wink:
stick to helping intial setup, then handoff to forums and solid beginner level infos, like easylinuxtips project. discussing pros/cons and preferred apps based on you experiences so far may be useful, but handholding beyond that may also build small resentments born from getting it done for them especially when results differ from expectation, versus assisting in the install and initial setup (backups and simple basics) then shifting more to an encouragement and support for other to learn and grow.

Anyways, have him stay involved from the beginning, as a windows migrant, start with him downloading, verifying and burning the install media. Then assist while he installs, taking time to read each screen carefully and explaining why some options are considered better (by you, by many, by community in general) such as partitioning. Then work together with the LM Welcome screen, going through each of the welcome steps to get a basic well oiled machine. A more hands-off approach will serve both of you better, imnsho 8)

ps. then you have a genuine convert, not a dependent follower :mrgreen:

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Re: I Possibly Have A Convert

Post by phd21 » Mon Dec 17, 2018 1:34 pm

Hi MrGrimm,

I just read your post and the good replies to it. Here are my thoughts on this as well.

That's a nice thing to do for your friends, roommate(s), anyone.

I would not recommend cloning or copying your Linux system to someone else's computer as that would also copy all your personal and or private information.

But as you know, you could use "Aptik" to make a backup of your Linux Mint customizations excluding the "home", "Users", "Groups", "mounts" options, then just install Linux Mint normally (16 minutes or less) to the specific SSDrive with their own personal login information and computer name, install Aptik, then restore your Aptik backup, restart the computer.

If you want a great multimedia chat client I recommend installing "qTox" (Qtox) and for easy remote support install Teamviewer (tv) (I use the "Linux Other" archive option for TV rather than their deb file unless you want its background service running all the time).

qTox/qTox: qTox is a chat, voice, video, and file transfer IM client using the encrypted peer-to-peer Tox protocol.
- Scroll down and use the AppImage link for easy installation in Linux computers
https://github.com/qTox/qTox

FYI: qTox (Qtox) secure multimedia messenger installation - Linux Mint Forums
viewtopic.php?f=47&t=257745&hilit=qtox+phd21

Hope this helps ...
Last edited by phd21 on Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: I Possibly Have A Convert

Post by MrGrimm » Mon Dec 17, 2018 1:41 pm

phd21 wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 1:34 pm
Hi MrGrimm,

I just read your post and the good replies to it. Here are my thoughts on this as well.

That's a nice thing to do for your friends, roommate(s), anyone.

I would not recommend cloning or copying your Linux system to someone else's computer as that would also copy all your personal and or private information.

But as you know, you could use "Aptik" to make a backup of your Linux Mint customizations excluding the "home", "Users", "Groups", "mounts" options, then just install Linux Mint normally to the specific SSDrive, install Aptik, then restore your Aptik backup, restart the computer.

If you want a great multimedia chat client I recommend installing "qTox" (Qtox) and for easy remote support install Teamviewer (tv) (I use the archive option for TV).


Hope this helps ...
you're right the responses have been great, just like yours. good to know teamviewer is available for linux since i'm use to the program from windows. thanks for the chat client suggestion, and on what to exclude in aptik. big help.

EDIT:

have to ask about DConf and Cron?

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Re: I Possibly Have A Convert

Post by phd21 » Mon Dec 17, 2018 1:54 pm

Hi MrGrimm,

You are welcome from all of us that replied...

I updated my last reply a little.

Although TeamViewer has chat messaging ability built-in, I use the secure qTox messenger to communicate to others because it uses very little computer resources and has superb text, voice (audio), and video, works great with VPN connections too; and if I have to restart TV, I am still connected and communicating with qTox. There are tox software clients for all computer operating systems, smartphones, tablets, and they can all communicate and interact with each other over the secure "tox" network.

TeamViewer Linux Download for Remote Desktop access and collaboration
https://www.teamviewer.com/en-us/download/linux/

I have qTox running all the time. If someone requires more support, I can bring up TeamViewer (TV) and literally talk them through using the system or installing and using various applications or to fix something. I have used qTox and TeamViewer with people from all over the world.

Not sure about dconf or cron with Aptik backups, but I think it would be alright unless you have some custom entries that are specific to your username or computer (host) name.
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Re: I Possibly Have A Convert

Post by MrGrimm » Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:09 pm

o.k. cool think i'll take the time to give it a test run. meaning pulling the m.2 daughter card to protect windows just in case, install mint, run aptik and reboot. if that works rerunning mint and atpik with windows in shouldn't present a problem. thanks a gain

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Re: I Possibly Have A Convert

Post by phd21 » Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:12 pm

Hi MrGrimm,

If you or your roomate have an external backup drive, then you should make a disk image backup of your systems before installing a new operating system. You can use a bootable CD/DVD disc or USB stick of Clonezilla Live or another disk imaging application for this.

You can run a test installation using that method you just described, although I do not think that is necessary as long as you choose the correct drive during the Linux Mint installation, and you want to have the MS Windows drive connected when doing the actual Linux Mint installation for it to update the bootloader (boot up processes) correctly for a "dual-boot" scenario...
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Re: I Possibly Have A Convert

Post by MrGrimm » Tue Dec 18, 2018 8:44 am

well mr. not so bright had his win 10 setup under mbr instead of gpt, and the daughter card overrides the m.2 on the motherboard so it does not show up in the list of drives for installing to. so looks like he's going to be dual booting from one drive instead of a os per drive. so in order of events today.

once ge's done installing the last couple of items in his teinstallof windows rebooting and launching into the live environment.
once there going into the 8tb and creating a folder for his disk images
open disk and create a image of the m.2
install mint
once on the mint desktop install aptik and restore using the custom backup i made for him, reboot
help him setup neno to his liking
suggest other software

all i need now is a good tut for fixing grub in case windows with their cumulative updates or twice yearly upgrades hoses the bootloader. thanks

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Re: I Possibly Have A Convert

Post by AndyMH » Tue Dec 18, 2018 2:18 pm

fixing grub in case windows with their cumulative updates or twice yearly upgrades hoses the bootloader
First thing I did when I dual booted with win10 was turn off automatic updates. Reasonably straightforward with win10 professional, slightly more complicated with the home edition - so at least you can decide when to update and do a backup before. Google and you will get lots of hits on the subject.

Installing in legacy mode is straightforward, having done it a few times, but not done a UEFI install yet. As far as I'm aware, the only constraints are 4 primary partitions (but you can create an extended partition and have as many logical partitions as you want), and think there is a 2TB limit on the max partition size.
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Re: I Possibly Have A Convert

Post by MrGrimm » Tue Dec 18, 2018 3:22 pm

AndyMH wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 2:18 pm
fixing grub in case windows with their cumulative updates or twice yearly upgrades hoses the bootloader
First thing I did when I dual booted with win10 was turn off automatic updates. Reasonably straightforward with win10 professional, slightly more complicated with the home edition - so at least you can decide when to update and do a backup before. Google and you will get lots of hits on the subject.

Installing in legacy mode is straightforward, having done it a few times, but not done a UEFI install yet. As far as I'm aware, the only constraints are 4 primary partitions (but you can create an extended partition and have as many logical partitions as you want), and think there is a 2TB limit on the max partition size.
i set it to offer me the updates. lets please keep this on topic. i asked about a good tut on fixing grub just in case it's needed in the future.

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Re: I Possibly Have A Convert

Post by phd21 » Tue Dec 18, 2018 3:36 pm

Hi MrGrimm,

There are some really great bootable utilities called "boot-repair-disk" and "SuperGrub2" which I personally recommend that everyone has a copy of. I always have a CD/DVD and or USB stick of these available in case of emergencies.

boot-repair-disk - the one button repair usually works
https://sourceforge.net/p/boot-repair-cd/home/Home/

Super Grub2 Disk - Allows you to boot into any available operating system even if there are problems with regular booting.
https://www.supergrubdisk.org/super-grub2-disk/


Hope this helps ...
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Re: I Possibly Have A Convert

Post by MrGrimm » Tue Dec 18, 2018 4:37 pm

cool, thanks very much, will be good for me. my roommate not so much. since you read my above post you know he reran 10 so he could make it gpt, after he got everything installed and tweaked i ran it through the paces, and it's fast and extremely responsive. the "not so much" for him is because no matter what we do the mint boot media gets as far as the live environment and he has no keyboard or mouse unless he plugs in a wired mouse. seems something with his mobo is preventing him from installing mint. tried it on the daughter card, tried it on the m.2 on the motherboard and no go. can create a disk image of 10, can't shrink 10. nothing to do the mint media is fine cause i tested it on my system and works perfectly. secure boot and fast boot are off on his system, and i've tried everything i can think of and still no go. i am truly at a loss.
Last edited by MrGrimm on Fri Dec 28, 2018 9:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

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