19.3 to 20 - complete failure, extremely angry

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Ringel05
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Re: 19.3 to 20 - complete failure, extremely angry

Post by Ringel05 »

Flemur wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 4:24 pm
OlivierM wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 6:56 am
So today I saw the update to install in my notification zone. Let's try that. What can go wrong, right ?
Whoa, slow down - I'm *pretty sure* the upgrade from 19.3 to 20 does NOT appear as a notification.

Are you sure you weren't doing a normal upgrade of some installed packages? Exactly what happened after you started whatever it was? The update/upgrade manager appeared, or something else happened?
Anyway i'm now afraid my 1200€ laptop is screwed.
At worst you might have to reset the BIOS.
I'm pretty sure the upgrade on mine first appeared as a notification.......... Certainly looked like one.......
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Kadaitcha Man
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Re: 19.3 to 20 - complete failure, extremely angry

Post by Kadaitcha Man »

Ringel05 wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 1:05 am
I took a Timeshift snapshot before upgrading, when the upgrade failed I used Timeshift to restore my 19.03......... The restore failed.......
Not having a backup at all is not the same thing as having a snapshot fail.
It's pronounced kad-eye-cha, not kada-itcha.
Ringel05
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Re: 19.3 to 20 - complete failure, extremely angry

Post by Ringel05 »

Kadaitcha Man wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 1:20 am
Ringel05 wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 1:05 am
I took a Timeshift snapshot before upgrading, when the upgrade failed I used Timeshift to restore my 19.03......... The restore failed.......
Not having a backup at all is not the same thing as having a snapshot fail.
Never said it was. I was pointing out one of the multitudes of problems I ran into when the upgrade failed horribly.
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DoodMann
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Re: 19.3 to 20 - complete failure, extremely angry

Post by DoodMann »

I still recommend a clean upgrade, at least for root when you have a seperate /home. Also, that's a major upgrade, it's like updating Windows. You can't upgrade to Win10 from Win7. Linux is at least the same as windows when upgrading, it is not recommended a upgrade from a lower version of the Distro. Also, removing a CMOS battery from a Laptop is as hard as reaching something under your refrigerator with big arms. Always have a backup distro just in case the main distro you use just breaks. Also, the Web recommends the same. :)
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OlivierM
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Re: 19.3 to 20 - complete failure, extremely angry

Post by OlivierM »

rene wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 4:54 pm
And seemingly more to the point, this is by now the umpteenth report of upgrade failure, especially the ones where even 19 was upgraded from 18.
[...]
Not speaking for Mint in case that wasn't obvious. Just for sanity.
On my other laptop, a W540, I upgraded Devuan from Ascii to Beowulf. I had to reinstall xorg and cinnamon after the upgrade, but everything worked smoothly. Perhaps I was lucky, I don't know. Perhaps they just tested their stuff before deploying, who knows ?

I was using Linux Mint 19.3 on this laptop. Not an upgrade from 18.x. A pretty vanilla install. It is beyond me that critical parameters are modified by an upgrade before it is checked as successful by the update script. Ever compiled a kernel ? Notice how the system critical changing stuff are done last ? There must be a reason!

The timeshift issue isn't even relevant. Of course I had backed my important files up (this is something I do on the regular).
I don't even care if I need to reinstall from scratch, it happens with Linux-based systems, as with Windows system and what not. This is a part of playing with computers.

My criticism in this case is more the following: either the process of upgrade is stable, and it is pushed, or it isn't, and then it isn't pushed by a notification.
What was supposed to help me save some time became a lost afternoon.

Basically this upgrade is a severe risk of not only breaking the OS, but also the laptop. I was lucky that my bios didn't get completely unusable (just the 'booting from USB' part of it) and could reflash it.

Yet some dunce above said it's my fault because of timeshift babble. What happens when your computer has BIOS functionnalities partially disabled, in the form of a freeze when you try to boot from USB to reinstall from scratch (yes I read the note, saying if all failed, just reinstall from USB), when you can only boot to a terminal and notice apt is gone, X is gone, and basically you are 2 inches from having a shiny door stop ? I wonder what a newbie would do there.

But why the need to add insult to injury ? This can't be serious. Not a word like "sorry we rainbows up". Says a lot about the "support".
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Re: 19.3 to 20 - complete failure, extremely angry

Post by carum carvi »

OlivierM wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 2:09 am
My criticism in this case is more the following: either the process of upgrade is stable, and it is pushed, or it isn't, and then it isn't pushed by a notification.
I am really sad this happened to you OlivierM and I saw the earlier posted screenshot of the System Reports which clearly showed that there was a new LinuxMint20 distribution available. Well, System Reports was meant to be more user friendly, but shouldnt there be a SEVERE warning for new UNexperienced users in the System Reports of Linux NOT do an upgrade, but to do a clean new install instead? I am totally on the side of OlivierM in this. He isnt to blame, the offering of an upgrade in System Reports (without any warnings) is.
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Re: 19.3 to 20 - complete failure, extremely angry

Post by DoodMann »

carum carvi wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 2:33 am
OlivierM wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 2:09 am
My criticism in this case is more the following: either the process of upgrade is stable, and it is pushed, or it isn't, and then it isn't pushed by a notification.
I am really sad this happened to you OlivierM and I saw the earlier posted screenshot of the System Reports which clearly showed that there was a new LinuxMint20 distribution available. Well, System Reports was meant to be more user friendly, but shouldnt there be a SEVERE warning for new UNexperienced users in the System Reports of Linux NOT do an upgrade, but to do a clean new install instead? I am totally on the side of OlivierM in this. He isnt to blame, the offering of an upgrade in System Reports (without any warnings) is.
True. @clem should look at this, as it shouldn't recommend an upgrade for new users like me. Also, they shouldn't given upgrade instructions, instead recommend people to do a clean upgrade.
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deepakdeshp
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Re: 19.3 to 20 - complete failure, extremely angry

Post by deepakdeshp »

In the upgrade instructions Clem haa clearly stated that the user should be well versed with command line and apt. He also gives the fallback path in case of upgrade failure and recommends to restore from the backup.

I don't think the dev team can be blamed in anyway. I write it inspire of my upgrade having failed, I suspect it's due to my mistake.
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OlivierM
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Re: 19.3 to 20 - complete failure, extremely angry

Post by OlivierM »

> implying
I've been making industrial-grade dedicated systems using various linux distributions (from ubuntu server to gentoo) for a few years now.
Just to clear the ad hominem.

Look, if you don't care about feedback different from bootlicking, it's ok, but it doesn't remove the fact this upgrade is a clusterfück.

The only fault I'll admit to is trusting that distribution. May it serve as a warning to those tempted to give it a try in the future !
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Re: 19.3 to 20 - complete failure, extremely angry

Post by smurphos »

carum carvi wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 2:33 am
He isnt to blame, the offering of an upgrade in System Reports (without any warnings) is.
The button in system reports just open a web-browser to the blog announcement, which in turn links to the tutorial which contains the relevant warnings. It doesn't start the upgrade process. It's just another method of making users aware that it's a possibility.
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Re: 19.3 to 20 - complete failure, extremely angry

Post by deepakdeshp »

I will still say that if you don't have multiple backups taken during various times, it's only you to be blamed. If one backup fails, there should be another to fall back on.

My upgrade failed but I don't crib as I can roll back with Clonezilla backup within 30 minutes.
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Re: 19.3 to 20 - complete failure, extremely angry

Post by smurphos »

deepakdeshp wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 5:47 am
I will still say that if you don't have multiple backups taken during various times, it's only you to be blamed. If one backup fails, there should be another to fall back on.

My upgrade failed but I don't crib as I can roll back with Clonezilla backup within 30 minutes.
As the OP mentioned he believes the upgrade borked his BIOS preventing USB boot which would break most recovery methods.

Now whilst that seems unlikely it's not impossible - various distros (including Ubuntu and thus Mint) pushed a kernel upgrade a few years ago which made a bunch of Lenovo UEFI's read only and prevented USB booting.

The actual bug was Lenovo's. Now it's a longshot but if the OP is still around and the steam from his ears has subsided enough to want to investigate and troubleshoot it would be interesting to know what his hardware is and if he had this install active at the time that dodgy kernel update was pushed and when was the last time he successfully booted from USB. Or is there something in the current Ubuntu base breaking his hardware - it which case that needs to be tracked down and reported to Ubuntu.
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Re: 19.3 to 20 - complete failure, extremely angry

Post by mr_raider »

smurphos wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 6:10 am
deepakdeshp wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 5:47 am
I will still say that if you don't have multiple backups taken during various times, it's only you to be blamed. If one backup fails, there should be another to fall back on.

My upgrade failed but I don't crib as I can roll back with Clonezilla backup within 30 minutes.
As the OP mentioned he believes the upgrade borked his BIOS preventing USB boot which would break most recovery methods.
That can be fixed with efibootmgr.
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Re: 19.3 to 20 - complete failure, extremely angry

Post by asinoro »

mr_raider wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 6:40 am
smurphos wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 6:10 am
deepakdeshp wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 5:47 am
I will still say that if you don't have multiple backups taken during various times, it's only you to be blamed. If one backup fails, there should be another to fall back on.

My upgrade failed but I don't crib as I can roll back with Clonezilla backup within 30 minutes.
As the OP mentioned he believes the upgrade borked his BIOS preventing USB boot which would break most recovery methods.
That can be fixed with efibootmgr.
That can be fixed with efibootmgr.

To be understood can you explain it better?
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Re: 19.3 to 20 - complete failure, extremely angry

Post by Flemur »

Ringel05 wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 1:08 am
I'm pretty sure the upgrade on mine first appeared as a notification.......... Certainly looked like one.......
You are correct, some people are seeing notifications for the 19 -> 20 upgrade. I'm not getting one, though, even after starting the update/upgrade manager; it just shows regular package updates.
Please edit your original post title to include [SOLVED] if/when it is solved!
Your data and OS are backed up....right?
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Re: 19.3 to 20 - complete failure, extremely angry

Post by smurphos »

The notification is not from Update Manager. It's from System Reports.
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Re: 19.3 to 20 - complete failure, extremely angry

Post by mr_raider »

asinoro wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 8:00 am
mr_raider wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 6:40 am
smurphos wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 6:10 am


As the OP mentioned he believes the upgrade borked his BIOS preventing USB boot which would break most recovery methods.
That can be fixed with efibootmgr.
That can be fixed with efibootmgr.

To be understood can you explain it better?
The proper way is to enter your BIOS, and manually select the efi file to boot. It can the shimx64.efi file on your OS, or the bootx64.efi file from a Live USB.

Then efibootmgr can be run from a command line to verify boot order entries, and eventually re-order them.

the command

Code: Select all

sudo efibootmgr -v
Will list the boot order.

Just to clarify some of teh FUD in thsi thread. I have never seen a Linux install physically damage hardware on a machine. It can render it un-bootable, but that is recoverable.
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Re: 19.3 to 20 - complete failure, extremely angry

Post by Len99 »

Ringel05 wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 1:08 am
Flemur wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 4:24 pm
OlivierM wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 6:56 am
So today I saw the update to install in my notification zone. Let's try that. What can go wrong, right ?
Whoa, slow down - I'm *pretty sure* the upgrade from 19.3 to 20 does NOT appear as a notification.
It certainly was a notification! I got it in the bottom menu bar of LM19.3...... and I too did all the neccesary backups plus a timeshift and just as well cause it all went haywire!! and after a day I had to restore my backup of 19.3 as nothing worked so I did a clean install of LM20, and followed the instructions doing the setup first with a timeshift, just as well cause after second reboot all I got was a command line loop ........but I remember reading to use the live boot disc and timeshift to search for the hdd timeshift file, which worked and booted into the GUI once more from the hdd but instead of seeing Linux Mint in grub it showed as Ubuntu ..... but am not going to re install again and will see how this goes for a while....
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Re: 19.3 to 20 - complete failure, extremely angry

Post by GS3 »

OlivierM wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 5:10 am
this upgrade is a clusterfück.

The only fault I'll admit to is trusting that distribution. May it serve as a warning to those tempted to give it a try in the future !
I am totally with you and I do not understand those who try to blame the victim. It takes a special kind of callousness to try to shift the blame to the victim.

Not a good selling point for LM I don't think. "Hey, I recommend you install LM! If their upgrade farks up your system you can go to the forum where they will explain to you in great detail why it is all your fault and you are an idiot unworthy of being allowed to use the sacred command line."
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Re: 19.3 to 20 - complete failure, extremely angry

Post by revmacian »

OlivierM wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 6:56 am
Hey,
I have an Asus UX 333 laptop. For some reason only linux mint booted on that pc so I installed it (I normally use devuan) so i've been using it for a year.
So today I saw the update to install in my notification zone. Let's try that. What can go wrong, right ?

0. installation completely failed (gconf2 had too many errors) anyway I rebooted and thought, no big deal, let's save files so i'll reinstall from a bootable iso.
1. the computer cannot boot a usb drive anymore, it locks when i try to select the usb device in the boot menu (pressing ESC to gain access)
2. but I can still boot from the nvme drive on a completely sabotaged distro. most of the packages are gone, I just have terminal with most commands gone. thankfully dpkg and wget still work,.I am in the process of manually reinstalling apt and seeing if I can salvage that major screw-up

Anyway i'm now afraid my 1200€ laptop is screwed.
tl;dr : don't install that stuff. Until now I was recommending this distribution for beginners, even if I didn't like systemd. But hell, how can such a major screw up happen ? Do you even test your software before pushing it ?
I have been using Mint since Mint 13 (Maya) was released (around 2012?) - I use Mint because it is the easiest distro I've found in my 21 years of using Linux. I just did a clean install of Linux Mint 20, it took about 15 minutes to get files and settings switched over and all is fine. I use Mint because Clean installs have always been flawless.. which is why clean installs are best. Please try to do a clean install and see how that works for you.
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