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What are the benefits of doing a fresh-install of Mint 20 VS upgrading from 19.3?

Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2020 8:00 pm
by pepperminty
What are the benefits of doing a fresh-install of Mint 20 VS upgrading from 19.3?
Would there be any differences between the 2 (besides having all personal files / installed programs wiped clean when doing a fresh install)?

I ask because when I upgraded from 19.X to 19.X+1, I had a problem that was easily resolved when I did a fresh install. I don't recall what that problem was. I'm searching my post history to see what it was but so far I can't find the relevant post of mine.

Re: What are the benefits of doing a fresh-install of Mint 20 VS upgrading from 19.3?

Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2020 10:36 pm
by Kseanfitz_1
Just my 2 cents worth...
I can see a point about installed apps and personalizing, but my past experience with Apple and MS is that upgrades tend to bring along some bloat and problems or "creeping problems" sometimes known as OS fatigue, and run the risk of upgrade bugs added. Also each time we install new we can benefit from the successes and avoid mistakes from the last time and most times have a better running system to show for our efforts.
I personally like to keep my older version handy and install latest to a new disk or at least a new partition if a new disk devoted to the new OS is not an option.

Re: What are the benefits of doing a fresh-install of Mint 20 VS upgrading from 19.3?

Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2020 11:51 pm
by all41
Ask yourself--why do I feel the need for LM20? And why now?--especially since LM19.3 still has years of support remaining.
If there is a compelling reason then consider a fresh install.

As computer users evolve their ideas and needs change.
You can take this oppurtunity to customize your new install for how you are using your computer today--perhaps this differs from
your needs when setting up Mint 19. Bring your experience forward.

Also +1 on using a new partition for LM20 and keeping your current install around

Re: What are the benefits of doing a fresh-install of Mint 20 VS upgrading from 19.3?

Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2020 12:52 am
by smurphos
pepperminty wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 8:00 pm
What are the benefits of doing a fresh-install of Mint 20 VS upgrading from 19.3?
For me, including reinstalling software, applying my modification etc, a fresh install is not only cleaner and less prone to upgrade related issues, it's also quicker to fresh install than it is to apply a major upgrade. My setup helps this - all personal documents are in a separate partition, with backups of selected config files from home and I use Aptik to facilitate quick reinstall of selected software.

Re: What are the benefits of doing a fresh-install of Mint 20 VS upgrading from 19.3?

Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2020 2:16 am
by lsemmens
smurphos wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 12:52 am
pepperminty wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 8:00 pm
What are the benefits of doing a fresh-install of Mint 20 VS upgrading from 19.3?
For me, including reinstalling software, applying my modification etc, a fresh install is not only cleaner and less prone to upgrade related issues, it's also quicker to fresh install than it is to apply a major upgrade. My setup helps this - all personal documents are in a separate partition, with backups of selected config files from home and I use Aptik to facilitate quick reinstall of selected software.
Ditto. I "upgrade" point upgrades but, when, a major upgrade from, say, 19-20 I'll do a format and install. It does tend to deal with any hidden issues from the point upgrades that may, or may not, affect me. IT is also a good excuse to analyse exactly what I do need and "clean house", so to speak.

Re: What are the benefits of doing a fresh-install of Mint 20 VS upgrading from 19.3?

Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2020 6:29 pm
by ThaCrip
I would imagine the general word is...

-Small upgrades (i.e. 19/19.1/19.2/19.3)... are okay.
-Major upgrades (i.e. 19.x to 20.x)... do a clean install.

basically it's just safer to clean install major versions since you can help ensure everything will be in optimal running order. doing a upgrade it's less certain unless it's a minor version, which should be without any issues.

Re: What are the benefits of doing a fresh-install of Mint 20 VS upgrading from 19.3?

Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2020 10:13 pm
by Kseanfitz_1
+1 for what "ThaCrip" said and would like to add the time honored and proven----> backup before you do anything.
In general the word anymore is backup, backup, backup as in local, external, and offsite (cloud?), at least anything you can't afford to lose and what you would not WANT to lose.

Re: What are the benefits of doing a fresh-install of Mint 20 VS upgrading from 19.3?

Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:59 am
by zcot
A fresh install can/will reduce the required time commitment by something like 400 to 600% compared to upgrade.

If you run a setup like smurphos that number has to be over 600% shorter! Well unless the system is basically stock.

The fresh iso is 1.9GB but upgrading is going to be in the range of over 1.25GB or something, but I can download 1.9GB from a local mirror in a few minutes whereas the upgrade files from the base repo would take longer(at this late point all the mirrors should be accurate so no requirement to force default).

Installing fresh totally eliminates the possibility of upgrade failure.

To start an upgrade, you are backing up, I'm talking that you will really want to remove software and ppa sources and undo possible package holdings. If you fail the upgrade and go back to a snapshot to try to correct the package mix up before trying again that's more time. Well, if the package system is fine, no big deal, but it still takes way longer for just the upgrade alone.

I download the iso and add it to the existing system's grub to do an iso boot which only takes a minute, instead of burning a usb stick which is maybe 5? And the install is even faster during the "copying files" from an SSD than a USB2.0 setup anyway.

I'd be curious at "how fast" smurphos could do the whole transition. I've never really tried to do it fast personally but installing beside an existing system makes it easier for sure(I hold onto the old system for days to be able to go back to it). Marking symlinks for data directories is a huge deal. I'm thinking I spend maybe an hour or a little more total over the course of a couple days dl'ing and setting grub, then the install, bounce back and forth a couple times copying stuff. I use the Mint "Backup tool" for the programs list and just copy the rest of /home stuff by hand(which like smurphos is minimal, using alternate data partitions). So using a primo(?) transition model, and trying to do it as fast as possible, I think you might be able to do it in 35 minutes and be pretty darn complete on a complex transition!

No upgrade failures, no upgrade going back in time, no software removal needed, nothing, just move forward and the tools that are made for transition make it quick(er) and easy(er) than even dealing with any upgrade related activity at all.

Re: What are the benefits of doing a fresh-install of Mint 20 VS upgrading from 19.3?

Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2020 4:17 am
by Petermint
Downloading the LM 20 .iso and loading it onto a USB stick gives you something you can use to test LM 20 on your machine.

Once you download it and test it, a clean install makes sense bacause it is faster than an upgrade and saves another download of everything.

After the clean install, the LM 20 USB stick give you something you can boot to fix problems or adjust partitions.

Re: What are the benefits of doing a fresh-install of Mint 20 VS upgrading from 19.3?

Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2020 11:43 am
by pepperminty
Thank you all for your contributions.
Maybe we should tell Clem to add your comments to https://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=3946 "How to upgrade to Linux Mint 20"

Re: What are the benefits of doing a fresh-install of Mint 20 VS upgrading from 19.3?

Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:33 pm
by ZakGordon
all41 wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 11:51 pm
Ask yourself--why do I feel the need for LM20? And why now?--especially since LM19.3 still has years of support remaining.
If there is a compelling reason then consider a fresh install.
This would be my No:1 consideration.

Also Pjotr has some great advice for all options in his site here:

https://easylinuxtipsproject.blogspot.c ... -mint.html

Re: What are the benefits of doing a fresh-install of Mint 20 VS upgrading from 19.3?

Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2020 7:50 pm
by pepperminty
all41 wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 11:51 pm
Ask yourself--why do I feel the need for LM20? And why now?--especially since LM19.3 still has years of support remaining.
If there is a compelling reason then consider a fresh install.
Because new Mint is nicer than old Mint :)

Not a compelling reason, perhaps.

Re: What are the benefits of doing a fresh-install of Mint 20 VS upgrading from 19.3?

Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:21 pm
by mr_raider
LEt me put it this way. Mint 19 to 20 is essentially an upgrade of the underlying Ubuntu core from 1804 to 2004. Ubuntu has not yet opened up that upgrade, and usually wait a good 6 months before doing so.

So do you feel lucky, punk?

Re: What are the benefits of doing a fresh-install of Mint 20 VS upgrading from 19.3?

Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:03 pm
by pepperminty
mr_raider wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:21 pm
LEt me put it this way. Mint 19 to 20 is essentially an upgrade of the underlying Ubuntu core from 1804 to 2004. Ubuntu has not yet opened up that upgrade, and usually wait a good 6 months before doing so.

So do you feel lucky, punk?
I don't follow. Mint 19 has Ubuntu Core 1804 and Mint 20 has Ubuntu Core 2004, yes?
If that's the case, what do you mean that Ubuntu hasn't opened that upgrade yet?

Re: What are the benefits of doing a fresh-install of Mint 20 VS upgrading from 19.3?

Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:15 pm
by mr_raider
pepperminty wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:03 pm
mr_raider wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:21 pm
LEt me put it this way. Mint 19 to 20 is essentially an upgrade of the underlying Ubuntu core from 1804 to 2004. Ubuntu has not yet opened up that upgrade, and usually wait a good 6 months before doing so.

So do you feel lucky, punk?
I don't follow. Mint 19 has Ubuntu Core 1804 and Mint 20 has Ubuntu Core 2004, yes?
If that's the case, what do you mean that Ubuntu hasn't opened that upgrade yet?
https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2020/05/ubu ... oming-july

Re: What are the benefits of doing a fresh-install of Mint 20 VS upgrading from 19.3?

Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2020 12:47 pm
by ronsmeyer
I have been using Mint as my main OS since 2015. In that time, I have a lot of stuff installed, and I am dependent on those apps. Formatting the hard drive, installing the OS, and reinstalling plus configuring all the applications and then restoring all the data would be a 3 to 4 day project. I don't have time for that. I'd only do that if I were building another computer. I'm sure a clean OS install is better from the OS perspective, but from the point of view of the applications you need, it definitely is not. That's why I went the upgrade route.

Re: What are the benefits of doing a fresh-install of Mint 20 VS upgrading from 19.3?

Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2020 1:42 pm
by blackcarajillo
ronsmeyer wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2020 12:47 pm
I have been using Mint as my main OS since 2015. In that time, I have a lot of stuff installed, and I am dependent on those apps. Formatting the hard drive, installing the OS, and reinstalling plus configuring all the applications would be a 3 to 4 day project. I don't have time for that. I'd only do that if I were building another computer. I'm sure a clean OS install is better from the OS perspective, but from the point of view of the applications you need, it definitely is not. That's why I went the upgrade route.
That is also how I see it. Besides Fedora and Ubuntu do a great job with in-place upgrades and Debian is unbeatable at that.
I do not think the 'junk' we leave behind after an upgrade has any big impact on the performance of your OS.