[SOLVED] MATE 19.3 No reboot after kernel update from Update Manager

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[SOLVED] MATE 19.3 No reboot after kernel update from Update Manager

Post by hobbittr »

ASUSTeK model X555UB v 1.0 laptop
I had been running Mint MATE 18.3 on this laptop successfully since late 2016.
I do not dual-boot with Windows nor any other OS.

MY QUESTION IS:
Why do kernels 5.4.0 AND 4.15.0 boot OK when I INSTALL them from the "Kernels" section of the Update Manager but NEITHER kernel will boot if I UPDATE from the Update Manager?


I installed 19.3 from a Live USB doing the following:
Selected "something else" from the Mint menu
This is my configuration where I did not format my "/home" directory and I did format "/" and installed the new system.

/dev/sda
  • free space 1MB
    /dev/sda1 = efi -- 536 MB 33 MB
    /dev/sda2 = ext4 / -- 31457 MB 674 MB
    free space -- 0 MB
    /dev/sda4 = ext4 /home -- 959725 MB 288810 MB
    /dev/sda3 = swap -- 8482 MB unknown
    free space -- 0 MB
/dev/sdb

Did the following:
CHANGE /dev/sda2 and FORMAT for new system install
Selected ext 4 and " / " as mount point
CHANGE /dev/sda4 as /home DID NOT FORMAT
Selected ext 4 and " /home " as mount point
CHANGE /dev/sda3 SWAP INSTALLER DID NOT ALLOW FORMAT

Rebooted upon installation completion.
My kernel was then:
Kernel Linux 5.0.0-32-generic x86_64
Current: linux (5.0.0-32.34) disco
Using kernel linux-image-5.0.0-32.34-generic the laptop consistently boots with no problem

THIS IS WHERE MY PROBLEM STARTED:
I updated the Mint Update Manager
I then updated all software INCLUDING the following:
  • linux-4.15.0-141.145
    Linux Kernel Headers for development
    linux (4.15.0-141.145) bionic

    Linux kernel 5.4.0.71.79~18.04.64
    The Linux Kernel
    linux-meta-hwe-5.4 (5.4.0.71.79~18.04.64) bionic

    linux-base
    Linux image base package
    linux-base (4.5ubuntu1.2) bionic FROM linux-base (4.5ubuntu1.1) bionic
Upon reboot the machine did not boot up with either of the two above kernels nor with 5.0.0-32.34.
It hangs at a blank screen with the top most kernel 5.4.0.71.79~18.04.64
If I attempt to boot with any of the other kernels the machine hangs at "Loading initial ramdisk"
The system will not reboot with ctrl-alt-delete and I had to press the power off switch.
After each power off/on I selected Recovery mode and was able to reboot to desktop with each kernel.

I then installed kernels 4.15.0-140 and 5.4.0.70 using the Kernels under the Update Manager as a test
Upon reboot I was again unsuccessful with both of these kernels.

It makes no sense to me that kernels 5.4.0 AND 4.15.0 boot OK when I INSTALL them from the "Kernels" section of the Update Manager but NEITHER kernel will boot if I UPDATE from the Update Manager

NEXT I started forum searching and found plenty of "black/blank screen" questions and solutions.

MY ORIGINAL GRUB:
GRUB_DEFAULT=0
GRUB_TIMEOUT_STYLE=hidden
GRUB_TIMEOUT=0
GRUB_DISTRIBUTOR=`lsb_release -i -s 2> /dev/null || echo Debian`
GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="quiet splash"
GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX=""

I tried replacing "quiet splash" with "noacpi nomodeset"
This only booted in recovery mode so I removed nomodeset
With "noacpi" it still would not boot.

MY CURRENT GRUB:
GRUB_DEFAULT=0
GRUB_HIDDEN_TIMEOUT=
GRUB_HIDDEN_TIMEOUT_QUIET=true
GRUB_TIMEOUT=10
GRUB_DISTRIBUTOR=`lsb_release -i -s 2> /dev/null || echo Debian`
GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="noacpi"
GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX=""

Without success at this point I reinstalled 19.3 as before.
linux (5.0.0-32.34) disco booted successfully
I updated the Mint Update Manager
I then updated all software BUT NOT the following:
  • linux-4.15.0-141.145
    linux-base (4.5ubuntu1.2) bionic FROM linux-base (4.5ubuntu1.1) bionic
    linux-meta-hwe-5.4 (5.4.0.71.79~18.04.64) bionic
Reboot was SUCCESSFUl with 5.0.0-32.34
I then installed 4.15.0-141 from the Update Manager-Kernels menu using "noacpi" in GRUB
Reboot was SUCCESSFUL
I then installed 5.4.0.71 from the Update Manager-Kernels menu using "noacpi" in GRUB
Reboot was SUCCESSFUL

Reboots were continuously SUCCESSFUL with all three kernels.

I then installed the UPDATES to the following three:
  • linux-4.15.0-141.145
    linux-meta-hwe-5.4 (5.4.0.71.79~18.04.64) bionic
    linux-base (4.5ubuntu1.2) bionic FROM linux-base (4.5ubuntu1.1) bionic
Upon reboot I was back to blank screen again.

I reinstalled from USB once again and did all the above EXCEPT installing the three UPDATES.

I then installed 4.15.0-141 and 5.4.0.71 from the Kernel Manager and they boot with no obvious problems.
kernel4.15.0-141-Install
kernel4.15.0-141-Install
kernel5.4.0-71_Install
kernel5.4.0-71_Install
For now I have set my Update Manger to ignore all FUTURE updates for these three packages.
  • linux-4.15.0-141.145
    linux-base (4.5ubuntu1.2) bionic FROM linux-base (4.5ubuntu1.1) bionic
    linux-meta-hwe-5.4 (5.4.0.71.79~18.04.64) bionic
However, I am concerned for the security of my system if all future kernel updates are ignored.
I installed 19.3 because 18.3 was end-of-life. I want to keep my system updated but not sure what I should do now.

MY QUESTION IS: Why do either of the above kernels work when I simply install them but the system will not boot if I UPDATE them from the Update Manager?

Your advice and comments will be greatly appreciated.

Code: Select all

inxi -Fxz
System:    Host: asus Kernel: 5.4.0-71-generic x86_64 bits: 64 compiler: gcc v: 7.5.0 Desktop: MATE 1.22.2
           Distro: Linux Mint 19.3 Tricia base: Ubuntu 18.04 bionic

Machine:   Type: Laptop System: ASUSTeK product: X555UB v: 1.0 serial: <filter>
           Mobo: ASUSTeK model: X555UB v: 1.0 serial: <filter> UEFI: American Megatrends v: X555UB.300 date: 07/06/2016

Battery:   ID-1: BAT0 charge: 29.3 Wh condition: 30.7/37.3 Wh (82%) model: ASUSTeK ASUS Battery status: Not charging
           Device-1: hidpp_battery_0 model: Logitech M570 charge: 15% status: Discharging

CPU:       Topology: Dual Core model: Intel Core i5-6200U bits: 64 type: MT MCP arch: Skylake rev: 3 L2 cache: 3072 KiB
           flags: lm nx pae sse sse2 sse3 sse4_1 sse4_2 ssse3 vmx bogomips: 19200
           Speed: 500 MHz min/max: 400/2800 MHz Core speeds (MHz): 1: 500 2: 501 3: 500 4: 500

Graphics:  Device-1: Intel Skylake GT2 [HD Graphics 520] vendor: ASUSTeK driver: i915 v: kernel bus ID: 00:02.0
           Device-2: NVIDIA GM108M [GeForce 940M] vendor: ASUSTeK driver: nouveau v: kernel bus ID: 01:00.0
           Display: x11 server: X.Org 1.20.8 driver: modesetting unloaded: fbdev,vesa resolution: 1366x768~60Hz
           OpenGL: renderer: Mesa DRI Intel HD Graphics 520 (SKL GT2) v: 4.6 Mesa 20.0.8 direct render: Yes

Audio:     Device-1: Intel Sunrise Point-LP HD Audio vendor: ASUSTeK driver: snd_hda_intel v: kernel bus ID: 00:1f.3
           Sound Server: ALSA v: k5.4.0-71-generic

Network:   Device-1: Realtek RTL8111/8168/8411 PCI Express Gigabit Ethernet vendor: ASUSTeK driver: r8169 v: kernel port: d000
           bus ID: 02:00.0
           IF: enp2s0 state: down mac: <filter>
           Device-2: Qualcomm Atheros QCA9565 / AR9565 Wireless Network Adapter vendor: AzureWave driver: ath9k v: kernel
           port: d000 bus ID: 03:00.0
           IF: wlp3s0 state: up mac: <filter>

Drives:    Local Storage: total: 931.51 GiB used: 262.23 GiB (28.2%)
           ID-1: /dev/sda vendor: HGST (Hitachi) model: HTS541010A9E680 size: 931.51 GiB

Partition: ID-1: / size: 28.71 GiB used: 7.39 GiB (25.7%) fs: ext4 dev: /dev/sda2
           ID-2: /home size: 879.66 GiB used: 254.83 GiB (29.0%) fs: ext4 dev: /dev/sda4
           ID-3: swap-1 size: 7.90 GiB used: 0 KiB (0.0%) fs: swap dev: /dev/sda3

Sensors:   System Temperatures: cpu: 33.0 C mobo: N/A
           Fan Speeds (RPM): cpu: 2300

Info:      Processes: 173 Uptime: 10m Memory: 7.68 GiB used: 570.5 MiB (7.3%) Init: systemd runlevel: 5 Compilers: gcc: 7.5.0
           Shell: bash v: 4.4.20 inxi: 3.0.32
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Re: Mint MATE 19.3 Hangs upon start after update

Post by spamegg »

If you want to stay on 19.3 until April 2023 then it's probably better to stick to the 4.15 series kernel until then. You can remove the rest. I'm not sure what the problem is (we don't know your inxi -Fxz), but there is probably a mismatch between kernel versions and your hardware. It's not a good idea to have many different kernel series installed together, which are intended for different LTS versions. I don't quite understand where the 5.0 kernel series comes from. I don't think that's an LTS series. I'd recommend doing a fresh install of 19.3 and not messing with any other kernels except 4.15 series.
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Re: Mint MATE 19.3 Hangs upon start after update

Post by hobbittr »

spamegg wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 4:30 am If you want to stay on 19.3 until April 2023 then it's probably better to stick to the 4.15 series kernel until then. You can remove the rest. I'm not sure what the problem is (we don't know your inxi -Fxz), but there is probably a mismatch between kernel versions and your hardware. It's not a good idea to have many different kernel series installed together, which are intended for different LTS versions. I don't quite understand where the 5.0 kernel series comes from. I don't think that's an LTS series. I'd recommend doing a fresh install of 19.3 and not messing with any other kernels except 4.15 series.
Thanks for your reply...
Even with only one kernel installed, after I allowed the Update Manager to update the system, neither 4.15 nor 5.4.0 would boot.
I have a "feeling" it might be the update to linux-base (4.5ubuntu1.2) might be the problem but I am unsure how to go forward.
I have a good working system right now and I do not want to go through yet another install until I have a more clear idea why my system borks out.

Yes I plan to stay on 4.15 once I got this sorted out.
5.4.0-71 is supported until April 2023 as is 4.15.0-141 according to "Kernels" of the Update Manager.

Kernel 5.0.0-32-generic x86_64 was the initially installed version from the ISO/USB live installer. Why I do not know because all 5.0 versions seem to be at their End of Life.

Does anyone know why 5.0 is initially installed?
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Re: Mint MATE 19.3 Hangs upon start after update

Post by mikaelrask »

spamegg the linux mint 19,3 comes with kernel 5.0 by default so it most likely from there he/she got it from. hobbittr i agree with spamegg a fresh install might be a good one here, but instead of linux mint 9.3 install linux mint 19.2 because it comes with the lts kernel 4.15 by default. if you don't want to go for linux mint 20.1 with comes with kernel 5.4 lts. the linux mint 19.3 comes with kernel 5.0 with is not supported anymore, it was a short supported kernel for like 8-9 mounts.
CPU AMD Ryzen 9 7900
Graphic Card: AMD ATI Radeon RX 7900 XT/7900 XTX/7900M
Ram 32 GB ddr 5
Kernel: 6.5.0-14 generic
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Re: Mint MATE 19.3 Hangs upon start after update

Post by hobbittr »

Thank you for your replies so far.

I have fresh installed this system at least five times, each time I tried different combinations but always with similar results when I try to UPDATE either the 4.15 or 5.4 kernels from the originally installed 5.0 kernel.

I have a bootable system for now with any of these kernels: 4.15.0-141.145, 5.0.0-32 or 5.4.0.71.79~18.04.64.
There is no conflict between any of these.
I INSTALLED them from the Update Manager-Kernels menu, I did not UPDATE them. (See the images in my OP)

I did not UPDATE these:
  • linux-4.15.0-141.145
    linux-base (4.5ubuntu1.2) bionic FROM linux-base (4.5ubuntu1.1) bionic
    linux-meta-hwe-5.4 (5.4.0.71.79~18.04.64) bionic
MY QUESTION IS: Why do either of the above kernels work when I simply install them but the system will not boot if I UPDATE them from the Update Manager?
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Re: Mint MATE 19.3 Hangs upon start after update

Post by hobbittr »

hobbittr wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 8:40 am
I have not received an answer to my question. If I am in the wrong forum topic please advise.

MY QUESTION IS: Why do either of the above kernels work when I simply install them but the system will not boot if I UPDATE them from the Update Manager?
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Re: MATE 19.3 No reboot after kernel update from Update Manager

Post by SMG »

hobbittr wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 1:48 amI then installed kernels 4.15.0-140 and 5.4.0.70 using the Kernels under the Update Manager as a test
Upon reboot I was again unsuccessful with both of these kernels.

It makes no sense to me that kernels 5.4.0 AND 4.15.0 boot OK when I INSTALL them from the "Kernels" section of the Update Manager but NEITHER kernel will boot if I UPDATE from the Update Manager
These two paragraphs contradict each other.

You indicate in the first paragraph if you install the kernels using Kernels under Update Manager and then reboot that it does not work. Then in the second paragraph you say they do reboot when you install from Kernels under Update Manager.
hobbittr wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 1:48 amDid the following:
CHANGE /dev/sda2 and FORMAT for new system install
Selected ext 4 and " / " as mount point
CHANGE /dev/sda4 as /home DID NOT FORMAT
Selected ext 4 and " /home " as mount point
CHANGE /dev/sda3 SWAP INSTALLER DID NOT ALLOW FORMAT
The procedure you followed is not the standard way to upgrade from LM18 to LM19. I do not know the specifics of MATE, but I know files to run Cinnamon are located in the home partition. I would guess (but do not know for sure) there are files to run MATE in the home partition. Those files are not being updated with the method you are using for installation.
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Re: MATE 19.3 No reboot after kernel update from Update Manager

Post by hobbittr »

SMG wrote: Fri May 28, 2021 3:40 pm
hobbittr wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 1:48 amI then installed kernels 4.15.0-140 and 5.4.0.70 using the Kernels under the Update Manager as a test
Upon reboot I was again unsuccessful with both of these kernels.

It makes no sense to me that kernels 5.4.0 AND 4.15.0 boot OK when I INSTALL them from the "Kernels" section of the Update Manager but NEITHER kernel will boot if I UPDATE from the Update Manager
These two paragraphs contradict each other.

You indicate in the first paragraph if you install the kernels using Kernels under Update Manager and then reboot that it does not work. Then in the second paragraph you say they do reboot when you install from Kernels under Update Manager.
Thank you for taking the time to reply. Much appreciated.
I agree that I may not have explained clearly what happened.

I did a clean install (format "/" and install system)
Upon reboot after the clean install Mint Update Manager shows all apps and system files to be updated including kernels.
With my other two Mint MATE laptops, I simply allowed all updates, including kernels, to proceed, and upon reboot, all was well.
With the ASUS I got the blank screen and no boot.
SO THEN:
I reinstalled 19.3 to see if I had done something wrong. Again the machine booted fine with the default kernel and again when I allowed all updates including kernels I got a blank screen.
NEXT:
I reinstalled 19.3 clean again and it booted fine with the stock kernel.
THIS TIME I did NOT allow the kernel updates. When the updates finished I rebooted and still no problem.
NEXT:
I did a MANUAL update of the kernel from the Update Manager.
MATE 19.3 Manual Kernel Update from Update Manager
MATE 19.3 Manual Kernel Update from Update Manager
THEN
I rebooted and this time no blank screen and the boot into MATE was fine.

I am trying to find out why the automatic (suggested) kernel updates in Update Manager do not work but a Manual kernel update does.

SMG wrote: Fri May 28, 2021 3:40 pm
hobbittr wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 1:48 amDid the following:
CHANGE /dev/sda2 and FORMAT for new system install
Selected ext 4 and " / " as mount point
CHANGE /dev/sda4 as /home DID NOT FORMAT
Selected ext 4 and " /home " as mount point
CHANGE /dev/sda3 SWAP INSTALLER DID NOT ALLOW FORMAT
The procedure you followed is not the standard way to upgrade from LM18 to LM19. I do not know the specifics of MATE, but I know files to run Cinnamon are located in the home partition. I would guess (but do not know for sure) there are files to run MATE in the home partition. Those files are not being updated with the method you are using for installation.
I do not know what you mean by the standard way to upgrade ?

I have been using MATE since it came out and this is how I always have installed to upgrade.

I did a clean install to upgrade.
I have three Mint MATE laptops and I always make two partitions plus swap for any new install.
I formatted the " / " partition for my system and then installed 19.3 there.
I did not format the " /home " partition so as to keep my current files in my home directory.
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Re: MATE 19.3 No reboot after kernel update from Update Manager

Post by SMG »

hobbittr wrote: Sat May 29, 2021 9:37 am I do not know what you mean by the standard way to upgrade ?
Here are the official directions for upgrading from LM18 to LM19. How to upgrade to Linux Mint 19.
hobbittr wrote: Sat May 29, 2021 9:37 amI have been using MATE since it came out and this is how I always have installed to upgrade.

I did a clean install to upgrade.
I have three Mint MATE laptops and I always make two partitions plus swap for any new install.
I formatted the " / " partition for my system and then installed 19.3 there.
I did not format the " /home " partition so as to keep my current files in my home directory.
If you left your old home partition then you did not do a "clean" install. You did an install with a mix of LM19 and files from LM18 (in your home partition).

A "clean" install would only have files from LM19; it would not have any files from anyone's prior install of MATE.
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Re: MATE 19.3 No reboot after kernel update from Update Manager

Post by hobbittr »

Thank you again for your reply.
SMG wrote: Sat May 29, 2021 12:38 pm
hobbittr wrote: Sat May 29, 2021 9:37 am I do not know what you mean by the standard way to upgrade ?
Here are the official directions for upgrading from LM18 to LM19. How to upgrade to Linux Mint 19.
I did not upgrade as described at your link. I tried it years ago and had a lot of problems, perhaps it is less likely to fail now? I may try it when 19.3 goes End of Life and I move to a newer version of Mint.

Since then I have been doing what I learned from Mint forums as a "clean" install which is detailed here:
Install Linux Mint — Linux Mint Installation Guide documentation
https://linuxmint-installation-guide.re ... stall.html

The procedure you pointed me to seems very time consuming and more difficult than what I normally do.

A couple of examples of what I mean by "clean" install:
viewtopic.php?t=325133
AND
viewtopic.php?t=272996
These seem to suggest that one should partition with "/" and "/home" and swap and that system files do not go into "/home"
Some suggest that a "clean" install means to wipe all data and add the partitions.
viewtopic.php?p=1493876#p1493876

Others suggest that one only needs to format the "/" partition and leave "/home" alone.
viewtopic.php?p=1493891#p1493891

This is the procedure I have performed with Mint with success until I encountered the problem of this post.
SMG wrote: Sat May 29, 2021 12:38 pm If you left your old home partition then you did not do a "clean" install. You did an install with a mix of LM19 and files from LM18 (in your home partition).
I "sort of" agree, however a reboot of the machine has always upgraded my data files in the home partition, Chrome and Opera browsers being the exception but GDebi solves that for me.
SMG wrote: Sat May 29, 2021 12:38 pm A "clean" install would only have files from LM19; it would not have any files from anyone's prior install of MATE.
Unfortunately (for me) I then would have to copy nearly a Terabyte of data back to the drive. If I leave "/home" intact my desktop configuration and config files for my apps are all in their proper place waiting for the upgrade to any newer version.

Unfortunately I do not understand how your reply solves my original problem. Did I not understand or miss something?
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Re: MATE 19.3 No reboot after kernel update from Update Manager

Post by SMG »

hobbittr wrote: Sun May 30, 2021 7:10 amSince then I have been doing what I learned from Mint forums as a "clean" install which is detailed here:
Install Linux Mint — Linux Mint Installation Guide documentation
https://linuxmint-installation-guide.re ... stall.html
Yes, that is a clean install, but that is not what you did. If one installs that way, they end up with two partitions, root and swap, and a home directory under the root partition. The home directory would have the new files from LM19.

Your install has three partitions, root, home, and swap. You told the installer not to install the new home directory files, so you do not have a clean install.
hobbittr wrote: Sun May 30, 2021 7:10 amThe procedure you pointed me to seems very time consuming and more difficult than what I normally do.
That is the official procedure from the Mint developers on how to properly upgrade. If there was an easier way to upgrade which would ensure everything would work properly at the end of the procedure, then I'm sure they would provide it.

You decided to not follow the official instructions for upgrading and you also did not do a clean install. So, in essence, you made up your own way of upgrading and now want to know why things are not working properly. As stated in this post of one of the threads you linked, "If anything goes pear shaped, well, you can always do a completely clean installation with a new /home".
hobbittr wrote: Sun May 30, 2021 7:10 am I "sort of" agree, however a reboot of the machine has always upgraded my data files in the home partition, Chrome and Opera browsers being the exception but GDebi solves that for me.
I do not understand how a reboot would "upgrade" data files, so I do not understand what that means. Maybe someone else knows.
hobbittr wrote: Sun May 30, 2021 7:10 amUnfortunately (for me) I then would have to copy nearly a Terabyte of data back to the drive. If I leave "/home" intact my desktop configuration and config files for my apps are all in their proper place waiting for the upgrade to any newer version.
To be honest, it sounds like you are keeping files in /home that should be in a separate data partition instead of being in /home. If you have a separate /data then it would never be touched during an install or an upgrade, but I am not familiar with your files to know if that is appropriate.
hobbittr wrote: Sun May 30, 2021 7:10 amUnfortunately I do not understand how your reply solves my original problem. Did I not understand or miss something?
It seems you believe you did a clean install while I do not believe you did a clean install. Therefore, because I do not believe you did a clean install, I think there could be LM18 files on your system which might be part of the problem you are experiencing. (I do not currently have any LM18 or LM19 installs nor a MATE install, so I am not able to give any specifics with regards to file names.)
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Re: MATE 19.3 No reboot after kernel update from Update Manager

Post by hobbittr »

My sincere thanks to you for your time and answers.

SMG wrote: Sun May 30, 2021 10:23 am You decided to not follow the official instructions for upgrading and you also did not do a clean install. So, in essence, you made up your own way of upgrading and now want to know why things are not working properly.
One of the best answers I found regarding a separate "/home" partition is here:
viewtopic.php?p=1973301#p1973301
"There is no controversy. It's a choice."
To be honest, it sounds like you are keeping files in /home that should be in a separate data partition instead of being in /home. If you have a separate /data then it would never be touched during an install or an upgrade, but I am not familiar with your files to know if that is appropriate.
[/quote]
Yes, all data files go in "/home"
I started using separate partitions for system and data back in 2002. I had a Win XP system crash while updating and My Documents partition was not affected. When I discarded Windows I have since then continued using the separate partition path.

What are the pros and cons of having a separate home partition?
https://askubuntu.com/questions/142695/ ... -partition
The biggest pro, in my opinion, is that you can easily install a newer Ubuntu version (or any Linux distro for your architecture, really), without losing most of your custom settings, configurations, downloads, etc., since such a step usually involves wiping out the existing system/boot partitions. You simply choose to preserve your /home in the partitioner during install, and you're set. It is also possible to do this with /home on your / partition, but is a little more complicated.

It also makes resizing/migrating to a larger home partition easier, if you ever need more space.

A separate /home can also make data retrieval easier in the case of a crash. If you suffer from a failed release upgrade for example, the /home partition will be untouched and you can easily recover by installing or re-commencing the upgrade without being too concerned about your data.


Do You Need a Home Partition When Using Linux?
https://www.lifewire.com/do-you-need-ho ... her%20data.
A home partition offers an additional degree of protection for your files
SMG wrote: Sun May 30, 2021 10:23 am It seems you believe you did a clean install while I do not believe you did a clean install. Therefore, because I do not believe you did a clean install, I think there could be LM18 files on your system which might be part of the problem you are experiencing. (I do not currently have any LM18 or LM19 installs nor a MATE install, so I am not able to give any specifics with regards to file names.)
If the laptop in question was not in regular and sometimes heavy usage by my wife, who tolerates my computer tinkering not a bit, I would reformat the entire drive and see if I get the same results regarding kernel installation. If Covid permits and she goes to visit the grandkids I will probably do just that. In the meantime I am going to note this post as SOLVED and move on to something else.

Again thank you, it seems our installation methods are different.
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Re: [SOLVED] MATE 19.3 No reboot after kernel update from Update Manager

Post by Larry78723 »

I think what SMG was trying to get across to you is that by upgrading using your method, system config files never get upgraded. Config files (those starting with .) are of two types that are indistinguishable from each other. There are config files for your installed programs and config files for the system. That is why she said you really didn't do a "Clean install"; the old system configs are still there.
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If you have found the solution to your initial post, please open your original post, click on the pencil, and add (Solved) to the Subject, it helps other users looking for help, and keeps the forum clean.
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Re: MATE 19.3 No reboot after kernel update from Update Manager

Post by SMG »

hobbittr wrote: Mon May 31, 2021 7:47 amYes, all data files go in "/home"
There is a difference between "all data files go in /home" and "/home only contains data files". The latter statement is false; /home contains more than data files.

You are making the assumption there are only data files in /home which is a false assumption. You then upgraded using a method based on that false assumption. Sometimes upgrading that way works and sometimes it does not. It is not guaranteed to work which is why the Mint developers do not recommend upgrading that way.
hobbittr wrote: Mon May 31, 2021 7:47 amAgain thank you, it seems our installation methods are different.
It is your choice whether or not to follow the advice of those creating the software (the Mint developers). I do my best to provide advice based on the design intent of the developers rather than something that just happened to work this time on one particular person's install. You have already discovered that it does not work all the time on every install. You are the second person in the past week with whom I've corresponded who ran into issues because they assumed they could upgrade Mint without upgrading the files in /home.
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Re: [SOLVED] MATE 19.3 No reboot after kernel update from Update Manager

Post by hobbittr »

I hope I can be an example of "never too old to learn" to others out there.

I apologize to SMG for what now (to me) look like "I know how to..." comments (after re-reading my posts). So embarrassing :oops: {ugh}.

Thank you to both SMG and Larry78723 for your continued patience and explanations. After reading again and again SMG's answers, I THINK I understand what I have been doing wrong.

Since I have not yet attempted a reinstallation of one of my laptops, I have removed [SOLVED] from this post for now.

I previously believed that ALL system files were in the "/" partition.

I do know that "/home contains more than data files." ("dot"/config files)
HOWEVER, I thought they were ONLY for my app configurations and the "look and feel" of the desktop and not for the system. I believed that upon updating my apps, the config files would update also.

I have read again Clem's instructions for a "Fresh" Upgrade which I prefer:
https://community.linuxmint.com/tutorial/view/2

I think I get how this works:
"Backup Your Data"
"Open mintBackup from the Menu -> Administration -> Backup Tool"

Select which directories hold data files (.odt, .doc, .jpg etc.) and they are backed up.

What I do not understand is does "Backup Your Software Selection" save all configuration files for applications as well as desktop personalizations (custom icons, folder listings, etc.)? In this area the tutorial is a bit light.

I found a bit more detail in this tutorial:
https://www.fosslinux.com/8035/linux-mi ... -usage.htm
It says "MintBackup provides the options to include the hidden files. We recommend including the .config directory, as it holds all the configuration files of the changes you make to the appearance or preferences of your user account on your system."

That, I believe, is not true for various applications.

What I need to save under .config would be Google, google-chrome, calibre, libreoffice, and opera.
My web browsers all have extensions installed as well as passwords, history etc. etc. that I would like to save and not have to create from scratch.

Not all app configuration stuff is saved in .config.

I use a variety of extensions in both Firefox and Thunderbird and they are not under .config.
.mozilla has all the Firefox info and .thunderbird not only has extension stuff but the mail itself.
.googleearth and .gimp-2.8 are also not under .config

And, what about .config folders for mate-session, menus, and mintmenu? Do I leave them alone or are they what I need to restore my customized desktop "look and feel"?

Your comments will be greatly appreciated.
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Re: [SOLVED] MATE 19.3 No reboot after kernel update from Update Manager

Post by SMG »

hobbittr wrote: Tue Jun 01, 2021 9:56 am What I do not understand is does "Backup Your Software Selection" save all configuration files for applications as well as desktop personalizations (custom icons, folder listings, etc.)? In this area the tutorial is a bit light.
It's my understanding the Backup Tool has changed over time, so keep in mind details you might read could just be applicable to that specific version.

My understanding of the "software selection" is that it just provides a list of the software you have installed and not any of the specific files. Because the underlying Ubuntu base changes on some of the upgrades, the actual software must change as well, so some software files may no longer apply in the newer version. There is some information about the Backup Tool in this thread [SOLVED] 18.3 to 20?? and in the "linux migration for upgrade" thread starting with this post.
hobbittr wrote: Tue Jun 01, 2021 9:56 am What I need to save under .config would be Google, google-chrome, calibre, libreoffice, and opera.
My web browsers all have extensions installed as well as passwords, history etc. etc. that I would like to save and not have to create from scratch.

Not all app configuration stuff is saved in .config.

I use a variety of extensions in both Firefox and Thunderbird and they are not under .config.
.mozilla has all the Firefox info and .thunderbird not only has extension stuff but the mail itself.
.googleearth and .gimp-2.8 are also not under .config

And, what about .config folders for mate-session, menus, and mintmenu? Do I leave them alone or are they what I need to restore my customized desktop "look and feel"?
I do not have a MATE installation, so I am only able to point to other threads on the forum or the MATE Documentation.

The comment I made earlier about the possibility of using a separate Data partition was because it is recommended to backup one's /home when doing an upgrade so you have access to all the older files (those in .config and other locations under /home) after you do the update. The person in this post found not all of the files for mozilla ended up in his/her new install and some data was lost. Having a backup of /home would have made sure the files were not lost.

The size you mentioned for /home leads me to believe there is probably data files there that have nothing to do with running the application. (However, I could be wrong.) If you separate out files which are strictly data, then /home becomes much smaller and it is not such a long process to back it up when moving between versions. As part of your regular backup strategy, you would already have a separate backup of your data partition (if you put data into a separate partition).

There are a number of different methods for backup strategy and threads often appear on the forum asking for recommendations. Moving from one version of Mint to another is just another facet of the overall strategy. This thread What backup and recovery strategy do you use? I'm curious. discusses backups in general. Here is a thread on [SOLVED] Separate /home for personal files? which mentions a data partition. Everyone's situation is different, so do what works best for you.
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Re: [SOLVED] MATE 19.3 No reboot after kernel update from Update Manager

Post by hobbittr »

SMG wrote: Tue Jun 01, 2021 4:17 pm
The size you mentioned for /home leads me to believe there is probably data files there that have nothing to do with running the application. (However, I could be wrong.) If you separate out files which are strictly data, then /home becomes much smaller and it is not such a long process to back it up when moving between versions. As part of your regular backup strategy, you would already have a separate backup of your data partition (if you put data into a separate partition).
Again, thank you for the useful links and commentary.

Yes there are many data files in our home directories including videos, photos and music.

We have three laptops, a Chromebook, two Android phones and one tablet all with external SD cards of from 128 to 256 GB size. I also backup our frequently used Google Drive using RClone and rsync.
I use one of the laptops as a backup device for the phones, tablet and GDrive which is why it is so large. The other devices have less data.
I then do backups to two different 2TB USB drives for redundancy.
If I ever lose even one image or data file the Missus will have me put in irons. She has stuff saved from around 15 years ago :shock: as she does professional language translations.
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Re: MATE 19.3 No reboot after kernel update from Update Manager

Post by SMG »

There are some people who make a separate backup partition on their drives. That may be what you are doing with the phones and the Google Drive. That would not need to be touched during an upgrade if it is a separate partition and could just be in fstab so it is always mounted and accessible from the Mint install (or mounted manually only when it is accessed).

Whatever works best for your situation and keeps you out of irons. :mrgreen:
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Re: MATE 19.3 No reboot after kernel update from Update Manager

Post by hobbittr »

SMG wrote: Wed Jun 02, 2021 7:24 pm There are some people who make a separate backup partition on their drives. That may be what you are doing with the phones and the Google Drive. That would not need to be touched during an upgrade if it is a separate partition and could just be in fstab so it is always mounted and accessible from the Mint install (or mounted manually only when it is accessed).

Whatever works best for your situation and keeps you out of irons. :mrgreen:
Thanks to your helpful links and comments, I found that out. Much appreciated. :)
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