FYI: Things that the Mint 20. installation broke on my machine.

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rgstubbsjr
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FYI: Things that the Mint 20. installation broke on my machine.

Post by rgstubbsjr »

The Mint 20 installation caused me no end of grief:
Gnome-terminal. Ctrl-Alt-T did not work. Typing "Gnome-terminal" did not work Synaptic claims it was installed, then gave me an error when I tried to delete it.
After reinstalling, it worked.
Evolution can no longer access my Gmail account. Certificates are missing. Still not resolved.
Samba configuration is wiped clean.
NordVPN, Opera, Openshot, and 4 other applications I rely on are completely missing.
I'm working on a list of missing or "invalid" certificates. I'll update with a complete list when I finish.
Well into the installation it told me I had run out of room on root. I have 76 Gig free on root.
But that begs the question: Why doesn't the installation check for the root size before it starts?
Why isn't there an instruction to check for the size of root before you start?

I'm testing today to see what else has gone away without warning.
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Moem
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Re: FYI: Things that the Mint 20. installation broke on my machine.

Post by Moem »

It sounds like you expected your user data to be retained through an installation. What did you do in order to make that possible?
It also sounds like you expected software to be retained. Now that simply doesn't happen.
If you want help with regards to your partitions, please show us a screenshot.
And generally, if you want any kind of help, ask questions. And not 'why does the installer do this or that?' We're users, we don't know. We have not written the installer. But we will gladly help you fix your problems if that's what you want.

If you just want to vent, that is fine too; just let us know and I'll be happy to move your topic out of the Support section and into Chat.
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If your issue is solved, kindly indicate that by editing the first post in the topic, and adding [SOLVED] to the title. Thanks!
rgstubbsjr
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Re: FYI: Things that the Mint 20. installation broke on my machine.

Post by rgstubbsjr »

The damage was done during the UPGRADE to Mint 20. Sorry, I was unclear about that.
The fact remains the upgrade did some serious damage. This is the second upgrade to Mint 20 that has caused unexpected carnage. the first upgrade on an identical machine wiped out the display manager. That took 4 days to troubleshoot and fix. All I got from this forum was "Check your root space". That machine had over 100 gig remaining in root.
My questions are still valid. If the upgrade is going to fail because of a lack of space in root, it should check for that before starting. That's basic error handling protocol.
The fact that I had 76 gig of space and it still insisted I ran out of space is a bug, not a feature.
NordVPN is installed from Synaptic, why was it deleted from my machine? Bug, not a feature.
I reinstalled it from Synaptic.
As I find fixes, I will post them here.
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Moem
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Re: FYI: Things that the Mint 20. installation broke on my machine.

Post by Moem »

I've never upgraded in place and stories like yours make me more determined to keep it that way. It sounds like you would have been better off doing a reinstallation.
rgstubbsjr wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 11:52 am My questions are still valid.
I'm not saying they're not valid. I'm saying that no one here is likely to know the answers.

Can you let us know whether or not you are interested in getting helpful hints?
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If your issue is solved, kindly indicate that by editing the first post in the topic, and adding [SOLVED] to the title. Thanks!
WHVW
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Re: FYI: Things that the Mint 20. installation broke on my machine.

Post by WHVW »

I just did the same thing with a 19.1 install I rescued from the initramfs graveyard yesterday. It's a process that I share Moem's distrust of, but I figured what the hell, for once. why not try it? It has all seemed to work out fine...in fact the only problem (and it's a minor one, at that) is that the 19.1 icons have not been replaced by the 20 ones. (in fact I'm here to post that question).
Perhaps you jumped too many versions at once? The procedure I went through took me to 19.3 and then to 20, and while the 19.3 part was quick enough, the 20 part was dreadfully long, about 90 minutes.
rgstubbsjr
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Re: FYI: Things that the Mint 20. installation broke on my machine.

Post by rgstubbsjr »

I went from 19.3 on both machines.
rgstubbsjr
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Re: FYI: Things that the Mint 20. installation broke on my machine.

Post by rgstubbsjr »

Well, if you have any ideas why Evolution and gmail won't talk to each other any more.
It's not a crisis, I can always go to my gmail account and get my mail, it's just that it's extra steps.
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Re: FYI: Things that the Mint 20. installation broke on my machine.

Post by Grayfox »

If you ever have any issues with an OS(be it windows, MacOS or linux)

You back up and reinstall.
You start with a clean slate

I would not use old config settings, start from scratch
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AndyMH
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Re: FYI: Things that the Mint 20. installation broke on my machine.

Post by AndyMH »

I have run mint with a separate /home partition since LM17. So I always do a fresh install on a major version change (keeping my config files and data unchanged). The only problem I ever had was evolution, think it was LM18 to LM19. I deleted /home/you/.config/evolution and set it up from scratch again.

Tried the upgrade route LM19.3 to LM20.0 and had issues, but not with evolution. No problems with a fresh install, but I don't use gmail as my email provider.

In addition to evolution's config files it also stores passwords in 'passwords and keys'. You might try there first - delete any existing entries for evolution and try again, evolution should prompt you for your passwords again, it might work.

No idea how you are authenticating with gmail, I did use their calendar for a while and had to set their 'less secure access' (can't remember the details), started having issues I couldn't resolve so dumped them well over a year ago. There maybe settings at that end that need changing or re-validating.
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Flemur
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Re: FYI: Things that the Mint 20. installation broke on my machine.

Post by Flemur »

rgstubbsjr wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 9:44 am The Mint 20 installation caused me no end of grief:
Gnome-terminal. Ctrl-Alt-T did not work. Typing "Gnome-terminal" did not work Synaptic claims it was installed, then gave me an error when I tried to delete it.
Rather then say what didn't happen ("did not work"), it'd be better to say what did happen.

At any rate, this is what should happen if you type "Gnome-terminal":

Code: Select all

$ Gnome-terminal
bash: Gnome-terminal: command not found
because the program's name is gnome-terminal. You'll also get errors if you try to delete Gnome-terminal; if you'd posted your command and the responses we wouldn't have to guess about what happened.
Well into the installation it told me I had run out of room on root. I have 76 Gig free on root.
But that begs the question: Why doesn't the installation check for the root size before it starts?
Why isn't there an instruction to check for the size of root before you start?
It's unlikely that you have 76G free and that it's not enough room for a full installation, or an upgrade, so you actually have some other problem. Again, post your actual commands and the responses, using copy/paste.
Please edit your original post title to include [SOLVED] if/when it is solved!
Your data and OS are backed up....right?
rgstubbsjr
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Re: FYI: Things that the Mint 20. installation broke on my machine.

Post by rgstubbsjr »

Sorry it took so long to get back to this, as the Mint upgrade also broke my third machine.
You have a lot of damn gall to tell me " I probably don't have 76gig free" on my machine.
That's my SMALLEST machine. it has more than 76 gig available on root. All the others have 300+ gig available on root, AFTER a full install.
Some other things that also broke because of the Mint 20 upgrade:
Opera browser, VNC, my ssh credentials change on all three machines, NordVPN disappeared.
I see in the various fora that my upgrade problems seem to be shared by a lot of people.
The upgrade has problems, own it and fix it.
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Moem
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Re: FYI: Things that the Mint 20. installation broke on my machine.

Post by Moem »

rgstubbsjr wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 10:04 am You have a lot of damn gall to tell me " I probably don't have 76gig free" on my machine.
Read the whole sentence, please... he said
It's unlikely that you have 76G free and that it's not enough room for a full installation, or an upgrade, so you actually have some other problem.
That is a very different statement than 'It's unlikely that you have 76G free'. Sounds like you stopped reading too soon.
rgstubbsjr wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 10:04 am The upgrade has problems, own it and fix it.
We can't. We're users, like you. You are not talking to the Mint team here. Once more: ask us for help, and you are likely to get it. Ordering us to 'own it and fix it' will get you nowhere.
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MikeNovember
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Re: FYI: Things that the Mint 20. installation broke on my machine.

Post by MikeNovember »

Hi,

There are two kinds of installations:
- default one, with "/" and "/home" on the same partition -->1
- "/" and "/home" on separate partitions --> 2

And two kinds of upgrades:
- fresh install from ISO --> A
- update through update manager --> B

1A: on upgrade you LOSE ALL what is written on your disk; after upgrade you need to re-install all the software which is not installed by default, to copy all your home files from a backup, to make all the settings you are used to.

1B: on upgrade you normally keep all your installed programs, home files and settings.

2A: on upgrade you LOSE ALL what is written on your "/" partition, and you keep your home files; you need to re-install all the software which is not installed by default and make some settings, related to this added software.

2B: on upgrade you normally keep all your installed programs, home files and settings.

Note that type 2 installation make backups / restores easier (when you make a system image with Foxclone or Clonezilla it is smaller, since it does not contain your home files; and you can use another tool, such as FreeFileSync, a differential backup tool, for your home files backup).

Backups are mandatory before upgrade (system image, system snapshot, home files).

They are also mandatory after upgrade. And, once you are really sure that all works, you can then scrap former backups before upgrade.

Regards,

MN

PS: here is what I do, for installation and backups; I try to make upgrades through update manager, but I have also done fresh install upgrades and it takes only ~2 hours.
- I have an USB key, made with Ventoy, on which are Foxclone, Linux Mint 20.3 Mate and System Rescue ISOs. I can boot on this key and choose the ISO I want to launch.

- My "/" and my "/home" are on separate partitions.

- External USB disk for backups.

- "/" backup:
* I take an image with Foxclone every two or three weeks, or before big changes (Mint 20.2 --> 20.3...),
* I take a system snapshot with Timeshift every two days, I keep two; it is fast, Timeshift is a differential backup software.

- "/" restore:
* if possible, restore with Timeshift, from working system;
* if not possible or not working, restore with Timeshift, from Mint 20.3 ISO;
* if not possible or not working, restore with Foxclone, and update with Timeshift, from the system.

- "/home" backup:
* I use FreeFileSync, launched in super user mode to keep files attributes (launched with "sudo -H", it is not very orthodox, but it is a no risk replacement of obsolete gksu and gksudo commands).
* I make a home backup every day; it is fast, FreeFileSync is a differential backup software.

- "/home" restore:
* with FreeFileSync or file manager (caja with Linux Mint Mate).

System Rescue is there for repairs.
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AndyMH
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Re: FYI: Things that the Mint 20. installation broke on my machine.

Post by AndyMH »

* I use FreeFileSync, launched in super user mode to keep files attributes (launched with "sudo -H", it is not very orthodox, but it is a no risk replacement of obsolete gksu and gksudo commands).
Have a look at unison (in software manager), native linux and easy to write scripts for it.
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MikeNovember
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Re: FYI: Things that the Mint 20. installation broke on my machine.

Post by MikeNovember »

AndyMH wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 12:42 pm
* I use FreeFileSync, launched in super user mode to keep files attributes (launched with "sudo -H", it is not very orthodox, but it is a no risk replacement of obsolete gksu and gksudo commands).
Have a look at unison (in software manager), native linux and easy to write scripts for it.
Hi,
I use a simple bash script.

Regards,

MN
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