UEFI works in my OLD Workstation?

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BiB
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UEFI works in my OLD Workstation?

Post by BiB »

:idea: Dear Guys, :?:

So in the below screenshots from my BIOS You can see that I am using a rather older computer (a tower, haha).

Now I am used to grub and grub2 and MBR partitions.
Now people use this EFI BOOT UP and a gpt partition table.

I'd like to try it, too.
Is my computer able to do it? It is a Z440 tower as you can see in the BIOS (which I updated today).

It looks like it can boot USB and CDROM with uefi, but not my hard drives. I have 3 and I figure, I have to do a legacy boot to ONE hdd with the OS or OSes. this one hdd must be with a mbr, the others can have gpt, correct???

Thanks a lot. I have really been thinking around that issue for days!!!!!!! Luckily I found this video and a nice website:
https://www.compuhoy.com/does-my-bios-support-gpt/


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMy3OzvBWc0


Boris
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Re: UEFI works in my OLD Workstation?

Post by pbear »

Unclear what is your objective. And, nothing personal, but I don't watch videos to find out, as there's no way to skim.

Main advantage of GPT is that you no longer have to muck about with extended and logical partitions. If that's the objective, there's no need to worry about booting in UEFI mode. A GPT drive can be used for BIOS boot. Let us know if you're interested and I'll explain how.
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Re: UEFI works in my OLD Workstation?

Post by Jo-con-Ël »

BiB wrote: Sun Jun 26, 2022 4:10 pm It looks like it can boot USB and CDROM with uefi, but not my hard drives. I have 3 and I figure, I have to do a legacy boot to ONE hdd with the OS or OSes. this one hdd must be with a mbr, the others can have gpt, correct???
External devices are UEFI boot options, in case you plug/insert a valid UEFI installation media or Live USB/CDROM you will be able to boot them (and install) on such mode. Internal disks wont be ever UEFI boot options, but Systems installed on such disks. Now you don't see UEFI boot options on hard drives as there is no UEFI system already installed on that hard drives.

MBR/GPT partitioning is another question, at least in case of Linux. You will be able to install and boot Linux on MBR partitioned disk on UEFI mode or viceversa, install Linux on BIOS mode on a GPT partitioned hard disk but, as pbear also said, GPT partitioning is recommended.

IMO GPT+UEFI is the better choice when installing from scratch Windows and/or Linux on a UEFI native computer. If there are other systems already installed, it will depend on what you want to get.
Last edited by Jo-con-Ël on Sat Jul 02, 2022 2:46 am, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: UEFI works in my OLD Workstation?

Post by AndyMH »

Nothing wrong with legacy, if you know how to use it, I'd stick with it.

Note - if your install stick boots in UEFI mode it will install in UEFI mode, if it boots legacy it will install in legacy.
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Re: UEFI works in my OLD Workstation?

Post by BiB »

HI guys,

I believe I solved it more or less.
What do you think..?
Damn thing is, you don't actually know if a USB or install medium is booting in which mode. Because they are able to boot in either mode....

Well, in a few years the issue is obsolete. :lol:

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Re: UEFI works in my OLD Workstation?

Post by Jo-con-Ël »

BiB wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 1:34 pm Damn thing is, you don't actually know if a USB or install medium is booting in which mode. Because they are able to boot in either mode....
Yes you do. You can be sure getting into Computer setup and set EUFI USB/DVD option first on boot order or disabling Legacy boot and saving changes. Also:
-booting Live USB from your computer boot menu and choose the EFI USB option.

-when booting, as it is different on UEFI mode (you get a black and wait GRUB menu directly) or on BIOS legacy mode (a countdown with Mint logo and the option to press any key to get GRUB menu)

-after booting, running inxi -SM from terminal (on last lines you will see UEFI: in case of UEFI and UEFI[legacy]: or BIOS: in case of BIOS legacy).
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Re: UEFI works in my OLD Workstation?

Post by BiB »

Hey y'all,

So thanks a lot for these answers! :D
Some I knew it a bit, but quite helpful!

Now to put my main question again: Can I boot HARDDRIVES in UEFI mode with this machine. Jo-con-El kind of answered it? So the answer is yes? Because they are not listed... :?:
You know the HDD n° 3 (ST3000...) actually has a gpt part.table since it is 2.7 TB large... but not listed in the UEFI list...?

Cheers,
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Re: UEFI works in my OLD Workstation?

Post by BiB »

Ad thanks Andy.. nothing wrong with legacy ;-)
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Re: UEFI works in my OLD Workstation?

Post by BiB »

pbear wrote: Sun Jun 26, 2022 11:50 pm Unclear what is your objective. And, nothing personal, but I don't watch videos to find out, as there's no way to skim.

Main advantage of GPT is that you no longer have to muck about with extended and logical partitions. If that's the objective, there's no need to worry about booting in UEFI mode. A GPT drive can be used for BIOS boot. Let us know if you're interested and I'll explain how.
Thanks pbear.
Actually: YES PLEASE
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Re: UEFI works in my OLD Workstation?

Post by BiB »

Hmmm...
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Re: UEFI works in my OLD Workstation?

Post by AndyMH »

Time to boot your install stick, open a terminal and post the output from sudo parted --list and then the output from efibootmgr. First tells us how your drives are setup, second how you are booting the stick.

See here on how to post terminal output so it is more readable:
viewtopic.php?f=42&t=364929&p=2119362&h ... l#p2119362
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Re: UEFI works in my OLD Workstation?

Post by pbear »

BiB wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 3:28 pm
pbear wrote: Sun Jun 26, 2022 11:50 pm Unclear what is your objective. And, nothing personal, but I don't watch videos to find out, as there's no way to skim.

Main advantage of GPT is that you no longer have to muck about with extended and logical partitions. If that's the objective, there's no need to worry about booting in UEFI mode. A GPT drive can be used for BIOS boot. Let us know if you're interested and I'll explain how.
Thanks pbear.
Actually: YES PLEASE
As you may know, the boot loader in BIOS is placed in the MBR (master boot record). Actually, just a pointer is placed there. The rest of the boot loader goes in a gap between the MBR and the first partition. Problem is, a GPT disk doesn't have an MBR. Instead we use a special BIOS boot partition which serves the same function. Indeed, the installer doesn't need to be told you're using a BBP; it just works.

There are several ways to create a BBP. The one I use is this. Boot a live session (same thing you use to install). Open GParted (from Menu). Usually you place both the BBP and the system on sda, but can select another from a dropdown in upper right if appropriate. From the Device menu, select Create Partition Table; from dropdown menu, select table type gpt; click Apply. From the Partition menu, select New; tab to New Size, enter 2 (that's right, the BBP is only 2 MB, and only a small fraction of this actually gets used); tab again and all the remaining space will pop up as Free Space; from dropdown menu for File system, select unformatted (last item on the list, you'll have to scroll down); click Add; click the check mark below Menu to apply changes. Once done, right-click the partition, select manage flags, and tick box for bios-grub. While you have GParted open, might as well set up your system partition (and any others you plan to use); don't forget to Apply the changes before closing GParted.

As far as I know, when you install, you're going to have to use the Something Else method, rather than the default Erase-and-Install method. You want to do that anyway, though, because of a bug in the installer. Happily, it's not difficult.

Let me know if you have any questions.

Note: All this information is for installation in LM20. In LM21, expected in a month or so, the procedure likely will be much simpler. As discussed in the thread linked above, Ubuntu 22.04 automatically uses a GPT + BBP setup for Erase & Install in BIOS mode. LM21 almost certainly will do the same. If so, there will be no need to pre-format the drive or use manual installation. OTOH, it will still be required from more complex partition schemes.
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Re: UEFI works in my OLD Workstation?

Post by Jo-con-Ël »

BiB wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 3:23 pm Now to put my main question again: Can I boot HARDDRIVES in UEFI mode with this machine. Jo-con-El kind of answered it? So the answer is yes? Because they are not listed... :?:
You know the HDD n° 3 (ST3000...) actually has a gpt part.table since it is 2.7 TB large... but not listed in the UEFI list...?
On UEFI mode boot options are not drives, but system (uefi loaders) installed on such mode on drives. Now, never mind if GPT or MBR, you don't have any system installed on UEFI mode on hard drives and YES you will be able to install on UEFI mode on that machine.

In my last post (kind of answer) I said you see only USB/CDROM UEFI boot option but they are not real UEFI boot option. Putting that external drives on UEFI boot order you only tell the system to look for (first on USB ports then on CDROM) UEFI loaders on such drive when inserted . Then you will be able to boot those USB/CDROM option only if inserted USB/CDROM contents valid UEFI loader. If you get into Computer setup with those external drives attached (on most computer as it depends on firmware) you will notice UEFI USB/CDROM boot option have been replaced with real UEFI loader on drives.

Internal drives (hard disks) are not shown in the same way. System already knows if there are or not valid UEFI loaders detected/defined on such drives. Once you installed systems on UEFI mode there will be UEFI options for those systems installed you can put in order on that UEFI Boot order(also it depends on your fimware).
Last edited by Jo-con-Ël on Tue Jun 28, 2022 4:46 am, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: UEFI works in my OLD Workstation?

Post by BiB »

:) Hello again,

Well, I tried it again and it works now - what a surprise.
So manually doing a gpt table plus Fedora's anaconda did the job, kind of automatically. BIOS shows a hdd "slot" now. See my success in the screenshots.. :wink:

Mint xfce, which I installed first did not make boot process work - I must have done s.th wrong there..

Thanks for the help so far!
I would be happy about some help in my other thread ("multi boot grub 2"), same forum.
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Re: UEFI works in my OLD Workstation?

Post by BiB »

AndyMH wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 7:06 pm Time to boot your install stick, open a terminal and post the output from sudo parted --list and then the output from efibootmgr. First tells us how your drives are setup, second how you are booting the stick.

See here on how to post terminal output so it is more readable:
viewtopic.php?f=42&t=364929&p=2119362&h ... l#p2119362
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Re: UEFI works in my OLD Workstation?

Post by antikythera »

That's one heavily populated EFI capsule, so many duplicate entries for system diagnostics apart from all the other stuff. It is possible to over-populate EFI capsules to the point the machine will not start any operating system so keep an eye on it and if necessary remove defunct entries for any operating systems that are no longer installed. There's certainly not going to be a need for 4 diagnostics partition entries (the partitions concerned are not really needed either for such an old machine and are designed for users with an active warranty running windows anyway - same with HP recovery)
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Re: UEFI works in my OLD Workstation?

Post by AndyMH »

And the output of parted? Which bit of my previous did you not understand about posting terminal output?
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Re: UEFI works in my OLD Workstation?

Post by pbear »

Agreed, please use copy-and-paste for terminal outputs. It'll be less work for you in the long run and screenshots are difficult to read.

If you're installing in UEFI mode (why?), there's no need for a BIOS boot partition. FYI, you can remove obsolete EFI boot entries with efibootmgr.
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Re: UEFI works in my OLD Workstation?

Post by Jo-con-Ël »

AndyMH wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 7:58 am And the output of parted? Which bit of my previous did you not understand about posting terminal output?
Yes. Look at the other thread OP has created here.

@BiB
Certain firmware has problem with efibootmgr or viceversa. I would like to know UEFI boot options on computer setup and options on computer boot menu (Esc and then F9?).
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