Installation Instructions

[MtnDewManiac]

I'm referring to what is within the Mint install process screens, not a 3rd party program.

I'd think that once someone read the tutorial on GParted, they will have attained a level of understanding about partitions that would make most (if not all) of it clear. Furthermore, IF someone does so but still has questions about the specific case of partitioning whilst installing Mint... they will then be able to ask specific questions (and understand the answers that they are given).

But my guess is that, once someone reads/understands that tuturial, most of their questions will have been answered.

No matter which operating system you want to have installed on your machine, there's one thing they all have in common: partitions. These are logical pieces of your actual hard disk space, defining the size and the file system format for the operating systems and data that are going to be placed on them.

Being able to control the partitions is one of the most basic, most important aspects of mastering your operating system. If you have the knowledge and confidence to manipulate the layout, create it, change it or delete it, you can adapt your hardware to your varying needs, without having to blindly rely on default setups defined by vendors or other people.

After completing this tutorial, you will have learned how to interpret the partitioning dictionary, what the strange symbols, letters and numbers mean. You will have learned how to create partitions or edit existing ones, including changing their filesystem, size, type, or structure. Most importantly, you will have learned how to read existing setups, be they Linux, Windows or something else.

Never again you shall fear using partitioning software or installing operating systems on hard disks already containing data. After this tutorial, you will know how to handle partitioning with genuine knowledge. So let us begin.

Regards,
MDM

[videobruce]

The question did not have to do with GParted, it had to do with that one screen in the install process. I have used GParted before, the issue here is using what is included within and during the Linux installation.

If one read that I specifically stated "not a 3rd party program" (eg GParted), then one would know what I was talking about.

[MtnDewManiac]

The question did not have to do with GParted, it had to do with that one screen in the install process. I have used GParted before, the issue here is using what is included within and during the Linux installation.

If one read that I specifically stated "not a 3rd party program" (eg GParted), then one would know what I was talking about.

One DID read that, lol. So... assuming that you have read the GParted tutorial - or, if you have not, that you HAVE read some kind of general tutorial on partitions (specifically, partitions and partitioning in linux) - what, specifically, are you unsure about in regards to the partitioning step of Mint's installation routine? You mention one screen, but want someone to produce multiple screenshots. That leads me to believe that you might not be an expert (I am certainly not!) when it comes to partitions. But, regardless, if you can manage to ask specific questions... Well, in addition to allowing someone to provide the information that YOU need, it could also end up being helpful if/when someone does decide to add more information to a "Mint Installation Tutorial." It seems reasonable to assume that what is confusing you might also be confusing others, assuming that you're of average or better intelligence (I am making that assumption).

The first time I used a linux distro installer, I was unsure about the partitioning step, too. I read an online tutorial (of sorts). It really did help me understand. Honest, lol. No more unintentionally hosing my own partitions. Knowing which partitions to create, that multiple linux distros can and will use the same cache partition, which directory/directories should be placed on its/their own partition(s) and why, etc.

Regards,
MDM

[videobruce]

To sum it up; what function does each 'button' on the screen below do would be a place to start to answer your question. Obviously, I'm not an expert, never claimed to be. Partitioning is not my strong point, but I'm not a newbie either.
I kinda figured it out for the most part. I don't have any specific questions as of now. I'm going to try another distro of Linux since Mint Mate has serious issues AFAIC which won't work for me. (another topic)

Attached is a screen shot of the specific stage in the install process that is the issue

1. The user guide does NOT show this window.
2. There is NO mention of using GParted (or anything else),
3. There is NO mention of using what is apparently available in that screen,
4. There is only a brief mentioning of partition which is mostly useless.

My point is (and I have seen this time and time again in dozens of these how to's) the author assumes the reader knows all of this. If this was the case, why bother even composing this in the 1st place?
There is a screen shot of choosing the language. If something this 'simple' (which really doesn't need to be there) is shown, why not this 'editing' screen (of all views NOT to show)??

Some of it one can 'click around' and guess (assume) what the function is, but that isn't the purpose of a tutorial is it now??

[MtnDewManiac]

Thank you. Hopefully, someone who handles the (Mint installation) tutorial will see your above post and benefit from your suggestions.

And I agree, that part of the installation process is one that should be well documented. If someone screws another part of the process up, they might end up with something that isn't configured the way they want (wrong time zone or something) - but if they screw up the partitioning step, they could manage to erase their data or another OS partition. So, yes, it does seem rather more important.

The trouble with assumptions is we don't always realize that we're making them. Maybe that was the case with the person(s) who wrote that installation guide, IDK.

Regards,
MDM

[OunceofCommonSense]

When installing Mint on UEFI the instructions I have found say to use a flag on the EFI partition "legacy_boot". This differs from the way I have my present Ubuntu install which has EFI flagged "boot". Does it matter or can either be used with Mint 17.3?

EDIT: Reason I am asking is I intend to initially dual boot with Ubuntu which uses "boot" flag. After/If I am satisfied with Mint I may delete the Ubuntu partitions

[austin.texas]

Your question on the boot flag for UEFI partitions should be a new topic, rather than attached to an old thread about a different question.

If you are installing in UEFI mode, the ESP (EFI System Partition) should have a type code (flag) of EF00 in gdisk.
See → http://www.rodsbooks.com/linux-fs-code/

[OunceofCommonSense]

Your question on the boot flag for UEFI partitions should be a new topic, rather than attached to an old thread about a different question.

OK I started a new thread and got an answer that made sense to me

[minemax]

I wish Linux Mint had more installation options. Like being able to choose packages, e.g.

[austin.texas]

I wish Linux Mint had more installation options. Like being able to choose packages, e.g.

I agree.
However, the installation program is maintained by the Ubuntu team (Canonical), not the Mint team.

[minemax]

But Ubuntu also has a Netboot Install option where almost everything can be customized.

What I'm actually talking about is that I never use Thunderbird, Hexchat, Pidgin, Vlc, Libreoffice Base (and Draw, Math, Impress), Banshee, gthumb, eog, ...
I don't say those are bad, it's just they are useless for me. So why on earth am I forced to install them? Yes, I can purge them quite easily (I always do this after installing Mint) but...

What I would love to see is, say, a metapackage with all Linux Mint essential components including themes and fonts but without all those additional programs.

Of course, it should come as an option, because I understand that some people would prefer all the bundle at once (as it is now).
So it would be kind of:
a) mint-core
b) mint-complete
metapackages.

[Cosmo.]

What I'm actually talking about is that I never use Thunderbird, Hexchat, Pidgin, Vlc, Libreoffice Base (and Draw, Math, Impress), Banshee, gthumb, eog, ...

Mh, this sounds as if you do use nothing except the browser. The idea of an OS like Ubuntu (see the post of austin.texas) and Mint is to provide an OS with the usually needed core applications.
All those applications get installed from the live system, that means, that you had downloaded them with the ISO file already in any case. Removing them does not cost much time, as no download will happen.

Your idea with mint-complete has a problem: You can be absolutely sure, that if you ask other users, they will tell you a quite different list of not needed programs. For which user shall now such a mint-complete meta package be done? Or shall the developers invest their time to create tens of such meta-packages? Their time is of value and if there would be a 2 digit number of such meta-packages it would be really very confusing especially for novice users. So your idea will likely create a huge problem for them and destroy the idea of an OS with ready-to-use core applications.

As you can easily remove the not needed applications by the right click menu of the respective menu entries, followed by a click on the button to remove residual configurations on the maintenance site of software sources - all that before you apply the first updates after installation - it is by far the most easy solution.

[minemax]

... shall the developers invest their time to create tens of such meta-packages? ...

Tens? How about to start with just two: 1) standard bundle: 2) without any additional programs.

Well, If it's too difficult, let's not bother, then.

[Cosmo.]

... shall the developers invest their time to create tens of such meta-packages? ...

Tens? How about to start with just two: 1) standard bundle: 2) without any additional programs.

That would be sufficient for you, but what about other user's wishes?
What would you say, if also additional programs would get set into "additional programs", like firefox (something what you seem to want), simple scan, totem, calculator, char map ...? Leaving an absolutely naked OS.
In other words: Why just your list? Same right for everybody. So we would get tens of those meta-packages.
BTW:: Alone the existence of meta-packages leads again and again to confusion for new users. Additional meta-packages will lead to additional confusion. Nothing that sounds sexy.

[minemax]

Leaving an absolutely naked OS.

Exactly. A perfect choice for those who know how to install all the programs they'll need. That's one metapackage.
And another one -- the full bundle.

If it's too hard to implement - ok, I get it. But please stop overcomplicating things. It's not "my list", it's just the simplest list. In order to progress you've got to start from something. First you crawl, then you walk, then you run an so on.

Confusion for new users? Omg, fantasies again! They'll have no idea of those metapackages at all! Because the full bundle will be the default option.

[Cosmo.]

If any user wants to remove only one of the applications, we will get notified about the removed meta-packages. We have seen questions and confusions about removed meta-packages over and over again in the forum. No fantasy, but fact and experience.

[minemax]

If any user wants to remove only one of the applications, we will get notified about the removed meta-packages. We have seen questions and confusions about removed meta-packages over and over again in the forum. No fantasy, but fact and experience.

Oh, gosh. It's better to implement it in the installation process, then.

But the answer to that has already been given:

... the installation program is maintained by the Ubuntu team (Canonical), not the Mint team.

End of the road.

[MtnDewManiac]

But Ubuntu also has a Netboot Install option

I was just thinking that I would like to see such a thing available for Mint.

What I'm actually talking about is that I never use Thunderbird, Hexchat, Pidgin, Vlc, Libreoffice Base (and Draw, Math, Impress), Banshee, gthumb, eog, ...

Mh, this sounds as if you do use nothing except the browser.

My impression that he just chooses other applications. I've been told that linux is all about choice. Ironically... By default, lots of choices are made for us.

Your idea with mint-complete has a problem: You can be absolutely sure, that if you ask other users, they will tell you a quite different list of not needed programs. For which user shall now such a mint-complete meta package be done?

Err... All of them, lol - "mint-complete" is what everyone gets now. That isn't minemax's choice - he is (I assume - he is welcome to correct me if I am incorrect here) stating that the regular install is fine for those who are satisfied with it, but he would also like to see a "minimum required for it to actually and functionally be Mint" (which is his choice) for those who would rather pick their own applications.

Or shall the developers invest their time to create tens of such meta-packages?

Again, TWO. And, respectfully, how much additional time would that involve? Clem (et al) already does the "complete" Mint - so no extra time with that one. And presumably, he/they already know what is required - at a minimum - for a functional Mint... Since that's most likely the first thing that he builds.

Okay, assuming that I understood what minemax was getting at - and, if so, assuming that you are clear on that (now)...

it would be really very confusing especially for novice users.

What would be confusing? "Hey users, you can have what we feel is a fairly comprehensive set of applications that you can begin using immediately following the OS installation, OR you can begin with a blank slate, onto which you pick and choose exactly which applications you wish to install." Frankly, that seems like it would be FAR less confusing - to novice users - than the choice that everyone already has to make... to wit, do you want to download and install Mint Cinnamon, Mint MATE, Mint Xfce, or Mint KDE? If that question does not cause them to stand there blinking, I doubt "Do you want lots of preinstalled apps, or do you want a system that'll allow you to boot/install apps/shutdown ONLY, because it doesn't come with any apps?" to really stagger them. Most novices would (IMHO) choose the former.

So your idea will likely create a huge problem for them and destroy the idea of an OS with ready-to-use core applications.

I'm still thinking that his idea gives folks the choice to continue installing the "full" experience. He just probably thinks it's bloated - since it comes with lots of things that he has zero use for. Me, I'd probably fall halfway between the two choices (but instead of demanding my own personal edition, lol, I'd pick one of the two choices that he suggested).

If any user wants to remove only one of the applications, we will get notified about the removed meta-packages. We have seen questions and confusions about removed meta-packages over and over again in the forum. No fantasy, but fact and experience.

<SCRATCHES HEAD> You were notified when I chose to remove one of the apps from the Xfce goodies metapackage? Do you have some sort of tracker installed (on EVERY Mint user's system)? You must be rather busy every day, all day long, then .

It has been a while (years), so I am a little vague on it. But I began my linux journey by getting the Mandrake linux 8.1 PowerPack. What I mainly remember about it (in positive terms), was a really nice (for the time) OS installation and hardware detection routine... and being asked at one point what I expected the primary use of the computer to be (there were approximately five choices - server was one, then there was Internet usage, I think office was another, and gaming might have been a fourth, IDK). And getting the chance to spend literally hours browsing through the repos, reading descriptions of the various available choices in each category. IF I remember correctly, the basic installation came with some applications (basic text editor and maybe one web browser, things that even a minimalist Microsoft installation might provide - and picking a "primary use" caused lots more to be installed that were (generally) from the category that was chosen. Or the user could do what I did and kill an evening learning just how comprehensive the distro's "default" repositories actually were (even at the time).

That was five (IIRC) choices, as opposed to minemax's suggestion of just two. The five choices that Mandrake provided might actually be of interest to a lot of current - and potential - Mint users. Then again, Mandrake (and its successor) are taking the long virtual dirt nap, lol. So the basic two choices might be better (and, as I have surmised, would probably be pretty easy for Clem to implement).

Regards,
MDM

[Cosmo.]

If any user wants to remove only one of the applications, we will get notified about the removed meta-packages. We have seen questions and confusions about removed meta-packages over and over again in the forum. No fantasy, but fact and experience.

<SCRATCHES HEAD> You were notified when I chose to remove one of the apps from the Xfce goodies metapackage?

That was a typo. Of course it should read "You will get notified ...". The rest still applies.

[zolar1]

Recently Microsoft 'accidentally' released their 'golden keys'.

When will Linux incorporate those into the installation?

I sure you like to Dual boot my old Win7 and Mint. So far it has been impossible.