[SOLVED] Extraneous Files Installed?

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Mint Lounger
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[SOLVED] Extraneous Files Installed?

Post by Mint Lounger »

I just installed via Synaptics Package Manager, a magnifier utility called "kmag." But there seem to be extraneous files bundled up with it...particularly, those related to VLC media player, even though I don't use that program, or have it installed. It seems there are other extraneous files installed, as well. Does anyone know why this happens?
kmag-synaptics.jpg
Last edited by Mint Lounger on Thu Jan 16, 2020 2:58 am, edited 3 times in total.
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kukamuumuka
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Re: Extraneous Files Installed?

Post by kukamuumuka »

They are required dependencies.

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Re: Extraneous Files Installed?

Post by Mint Lounger »

But that's just it...some of those files seem totally inappropriate. We're just talking simple magnifier here. I realize that one is expected to assume that the additional files installed are "required dependencies." But I seriously question this, looking at what is added to the program. In fact, it makes no sense.
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Re: Extraneous Files Installed?

Post by karlchen »

Hi, Mint Lounger.

kmag is a KDE application. Therefore it is to be expected that installing kmag will pull in a number of KDE software packages. I am not sure why there are VLC related packages on the same list.
Yet, if you consider your list extreme, then have a look at what kmag would bring along here on my KDE free Linux Mint 19.3 xfce:

Code: Select all

$ sudo apt-get --dry-run install kmag
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree       
Reading state information... Done
The following packages were automatically installed and are no longer required:
[...]
Use 'sudo apt autoremove' to remove them.
The following additional packages will be installed:
[...]
Suggested packages:
  fam voikko-fi phonon4qt5-backend-gstreamer hspell
The following NEW packages will be installed:
kinit
kio
kmag
kwayland-data
kwayland-integration
libdbusmenu-qt5-2
libfam0
libhfstospell9
libkf5archive5
libkf5attica5
libkf5auth-data
libkf5auth5
libkf5codecs-data
libkf5codecs5
libkf5completion-data
libkf5completion5
libkf5config-bin
libkf5config-data
libkf5configcore5
libkf5configgui5
libkf5configwidgets-data
libkf5configwidgets5
libkf5coreaddons-data
libkf5coreaddons5
libkf5crash5
libkf5dbusaddons-bin
libkf5dbusaddons-data
libkf5dbusaddons5
libkf5doctools5
libkf5globalaccel-bin
libkf5globalaccel-data
libkf5globalaccel5
libkf5globalaccelprivate5
libkf5guiaddons5
libkf5i18n-data
libkf5i18n5
libkf5iconthemes-bin
libkf5iconthemes-data
libkf5iconthemes5
libkf5idletime5
libkf5itemviews-data
libkf5itemviews5
libkf5jobwidgets-data
libkf5jobwidgets5
libkf5kiocore5
libkf5kiontlm5
libkf5kiowidgets5
libkf5notifications-data
libkf5notifications5
libkf5service-bin
libkf5service-data
libkf5service5
libkf5solid5
libkf5solid5-data
libkf5sonnet5-data
libkf5sonnetcore5
libkf5sonnetui5
libkf5textwidgets-data
libkf5textwidgets5
libkf5wallet-bin
libkf5wallet-data
libkf5wallet5
libkf5waylandclient5
libkf5widgetsaddons-data
libkf5widgetsaddons5
libkf5windowsystem-data
libkf5windowsystem5
libkf5xmlgui-bin
libkf5xmlgui-data
libkf5xmlgui5
libkwalletbackend5-5
libphonon4qt5-4
libpolkit-qt5-1-1
libqt5script5
libqt5texttospeech5
libqt5waylandclient5
libqt5waylandcompositor5
libvoikko1
phonon4qt5
phonon4qt5-backend-vlc
qtwayland5
sonnet-plugins
0 upgraded, 82 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
Sorry for the terminal output, which is not read conviently, but the list of 82 packages in Synaptic exceeded the height of my screen and there was no way of simply marking all package names and copying them from inside the Synaptic dialogue box.

Do I have to mention that I have not installed kmag?
In case I should ever have the need for a magnifying application, I will have to look for one which will not pull in half the KDE desktopsoftware.

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Re: Extraneous Files Installed?

Post by Mint Lounger »

Yes, I'm aware it's a KDE application, and that it might also download some other KDE dependencies as a result...but some of the files bundled with kmag are totally irrelevant to that app's use. I just thought it might be a glitch that I could correct...I mean: "wallet," "proxy" and "vlc?" Gimme a break! I'm gonna try removing the extraneous files and see what happens. BTW, kmag is the only magnifier that is practical to use, I've tried the other two, but they're more annoying than handy. Thanks for your reply!

UPDATE: I just tried to remove "vlc-data" via Synaptics, and it shows it will also remove kmag. So I give up! I have no choice but to stick with kmag and all its pointless dependencies, as vmg and xzoom are sorely lacking in their magnifying abilities. If you load Synaptics, and search for "magnify," you'll see only three choices for magnifying the screen.
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Re: Extraneous Files Installed?

Post by jglen490 »

That's the point, you don't know why those things are dependencies, I don't either, but the person or people who wrote kmag understand why some vlc files would be relevant to the functioning of kmag. You can look at as "no harm" and keep kmag, or look at as "useless" and give up kmag. Those are your choices.
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Re: Extraneous Files Installed?

Post by Mint Lounger »

jglen490 wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:17 pm
That's the point, you don't know why those things are dependencies, I don't either, but the person or people who wrote kmag understand why some vlc files would be relevant to the functioning of kmag. You can look at as "no harm" and keep kmag, or look at as "useless" and give up kmag. Those are your choices.
I disagree. Sloppy programming is /not/ acceptable...and questioning why certain files are included in the dependencies, when they are obviously unrelated, is important for the author of an application to know, in order to clear up any errors. I do not take the "ours is not to reason why" route when it comes to learning the ins and outs of one's operating system, especially Linux. Not questioning dubious installations only leads to a weaker, and more vulnerable, OS. To assume the author knows what he or she is doing, and accept anything they toss in (including the kitchen sink) borders on irresponsible. If you are a newbie, though, I understand your point of view...but it's just not acceptable for those who are moderate to advanced.

Unfortunately, searching for "why does kmag require vlc dependencies," and related phrases gets me nowhere. I don't think there is anything on the web where this is discussed, but I have found the three authors of this app, here:

https://linux.die.net/man/1/kmag

And have posted my question to them, like so:

Hello, I'm running Linux Mint and have installed your kmag app. But I'm wondering why some wallet, proxy and VLC files are included in the dependencies bundle...as they are totally unrelated to the operation of a simple app, kmag, AFAIK. I could not find any answers on Linux forums...people just respond with replies like "they know what they're doing." I, however, like to dig a little deeper. Thanks for your attention! If there's a page already out there that gives a breakdown as to why each (seemingly unrelated) dependency is required to run kmag, that would be great if you could point me to it. Refer to this snapshot of Synaptics' listed dependencies, if need be:

download/file.php?id=55217&t=1

It's a great and useful app, nonetheless...so thanks for a job well done!
Last edited by Mint Lounger on Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Extraneous Files Installed?

Post by Kadaitcha Man »

Mint Lounger wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:17 pm
Yes, I'm aware it's a KDE application, and that it might also download some other KDE dependencies as a result...but some of the files bundled with kmag are totally irrelevant to that app's use.
You would have had to analyse the source code to get to that conclusion. I doubt you've done that, but looking at the code, it is easy to see what is being called in.

Code: Select all

#include <QApplication>
#include <QBitmap>
#include <QClipboard>
#include <QColor>
#include <QDebug>
#include <QDesktopWidget>
#include <QFileDialog>
#include <QImageWriter>
#include <QMenuBar>
#include <QMouseEvent>
#include <QPainter>
#include <QPrintDialog>
#include <QScrollBar>
#include <QScreen>
#include <QPainter>
#include <QTemporaryFile>
#include <KActionCollection>
#include <KConfigGroup>
#include <KEditToolBar>
#include <KLocalizedString>
#include <KMessageBox>
#include <KSelectAction>
#include <KShortcutsDialog>
#include <KToggleAction>
#include <KXMLGUIFactory>
#include <KIO/FileCopyJob>
So, not only is the application pulling in Qt libraries, it is explicitly pulling in KDE libraries.

"That's the point, you don't know why those things are dependencies,"

You do know if you read the source code.

As for things like vlc-data, again, reading the source, vlc-data contains icons, images and cascading style sheets so perhaps the application makes use of those. I can't be bothered to hunt further. If you want to question what the authors have done, the source code is there to be read, and if you disagree with how they've done it, take it up with them.
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Re: Extraneous Files Installed?

Post by Kadaitcha Man »

Mint Lounger wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:49 pm
... they are obviously unrelated, is important for the author of an application to know, in order to clear up any errors. I do not take the "ours is not to reason why" route when it comes to learning the ins and outs of one's operating system, especially Linux. Not questioning dubious installations only leads to a weaker, and more vulnerable, OS. To assume the author knows what he or she is doing, and accept anything they toss in (including the kitchen sink) borders on irresponsible. If you are a newbie, though, I understand your point of view...but it's just not acceptable for those who are moderate to advanced.
I'm putting you on permanent mute. Nice rant though.
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Re: Extraneous Files Installed?

Post by MrEen »

Mint Lounger wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:17 pm
I have no choice but to stick with kmag and all its pointless dependencies, as vmg and xzoom are sorely lacking in their magnifying abilities. If you load Synaptics, and search for "magnify," you'll see only three choices for magnifying the screen.
I've not tried it, but xmag is already installed on my (and I assume your) system. man xmag:

Code: Select all

XMAG(1)                                                            General Commands Manual                                                           XMAG(1)

NAME
       xmag - magnify parts of the screen

SYNOPSIS
       xmag [ -mag magfactor ] [ -source geom ] [ -toolkitoption ... ]

DESCRIPTION
       The xmag program allows you to magnify portions of an X screen.  If no explicit region is specified, a square with the pointer in the upper left cor‐
       ner is displayed indicating the area to be enlarged.  The area can be dragged out to the desired size by pressing Button 2.  Once a region  has  been
       selected,  a window is popped up showing a blown up version of the region in which each pixel in the source image is represented by a small square of
       the same color.  Pressing Button1 in the enlargement window shows the position and RGB value of the pixel under  the  pointer  until  the  button  is
       released.   Typing  ``Q''  or  ``^C'' in the enlargement window exits the program.  The application has 5 buttons across its top.  Close deletes this
       particular magnification instance.  Replace brings up the rubber band selector again to select another region for this magnification  instance.   New
       brings  up  the  rubber band selector to create a new magnification instance.  Select puts the magnification image into the primary selection.  Paste
       copies the primary selection buffer into xmag.  Note that you can cut and paste between xmag and the bitmap program.  Resizing xmag resizes the  mag‐
       nification area.  xmag preserves the colormap, visual, and window depth of the source.

WIDGETS
       xmag  uses the X Toolkit and the Athena Widget Set.  The magnified image is displayed in the Scale widget.  For more information, see the Athena Wid‐
       get Set documentation.  Below is the widget structure of the xmag application.  Indentation indicates hierarchical  structure.  The widget class name
       is given first, followed by the widget instance name.

            Xmag xmag
                 RootWindow root
                 TopLevelShell xmag
                      Paned pane1
                           Paned pane2
                                Command close
                                Command replace
                                Command new
                                Command select
                                Command paste
                                Label xmag label
                           Paned pane2
                                Scale scale
                 OverrideShell pixShell
                      Label pixLabel

OPTIONS
       -source geom   This  option  specifies  the  size and/or location of the source region on the screen.  By default, a 64x64 square is provided for the
                      user to select an area of the screen.

       -mag integer   This option indicates the magnification to be used.  5 is the default.

AUTHORS
       Dave Sternlicht and Davor Matic, MIT X Consortium.

X Version 11                                                             xmag 1.0.6                                                                  XMAG(1)       

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Re: Extraneous Files Installed?

Post by Mint Lounger »

MrEen wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:10 pm
222
I've not tried it, but xmag is already installed on my (and I assume your) system.
Thanks for your reply. I just ran it via terminal, and it doesn't seem to work at all. Why not see for yourself? Of the three magnifiers listed on Synaptics, kmag is the only one that works sensibly. I really am looking for a screen magnifier like the one in Windows, where it enlarges the entire screen, and you can move around in it easily. Doesn't seem to be anything like it for Linux, so kmag will have to do.
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Re: Extraneous Files Installed?

Post by smurphos »

Mint Lounger wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:27 pm
Doesn't seem to be anything like it for Linux, so kmag will have to do.
What Desktop Environment are you using? Cinnamon ships with a native magnifier, MATE with Compiz has one as-well.
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Re: Extraneous Files Installed?

Post by Mint Lounger »

smurphos wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 1:33 am
What Desktop Environment are you using? Cinnamon ships with a native magnifier, MATE with Compiz has one as-well.
System:
Host: X230 Kernel: 5.0.0-37-generic x86_64 bits: 64 compiler: gcc v: 7.4.0
Desktop: Xfce 4.14.1 tk: Gtk 3.22.30 wm: xfwm4 dm: LightDM
Distro: Linux Mint 19.3 Tricia base: Ubuntu 18.04 bionic

As for Compiz: I'm not into resource heavy bells and whistles. Keep it simple is my philosophy. Now, how does the Cinnamon magnifier work? Does it have a resizeable rectangle you can move around, or does it enlarge the entire screen? Kmag uses a moveable/resizeable rectangle, which works just fine for me, even though I'd prefer the entire screen to enlarge. I've played around with Compiz a few years back, and don't recall a screen magnification feature...though I could be wrong.

Thanks for your reply!
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Re: Extraneous Files Installed?

Post by smurphos »

Mint Lounger wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 1:43 am
Now, how does the Cinnamon magnifier work? Does it have a resizeable rectangle you can move around, or does it enlarge the entire screen?
Either - it's got a Lens mode which can be a square, a horizontal strip or a vertical script.
If not in Lens mode you can chose between Full Screen or set a half of the screen as the magnified zone.

It's all configured in Cinnamon's Accessibility module.
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Re: Extraneous Files Installed?

Post by Mint Lounger »

Kewl. By full screen does that mean it's larger than the monitor screen itself, so you have to drag the mouse cursor beyond the edge to see the rest (which is what I'm looking for)? Or does it just enlarge the screen within the monitor's borders? Thanks for your help; much appreciated. Donwloading Linux Mint Cinnamon as I type this. Will check out the magnifier on a live flash drive tomorrow.
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Re: Extraneous Files Installed?

Post by smurphos »

Mint Lounger wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:24 am
Kewl. By full screen does that mean it's larger than the monitor screen itself, so you have to drag the mouse cursor beyond the edge to see the rest (which is what I'm looking for)? Or does it just enlarge the screen within the monitor's borders? Thanks for your help; much appreciated. Donwloading Linux Mint Cinnamon as I type this. Will check out the magnifier on a live flash drive tomorrow.
The former.
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Re: Extraneous Files Installed?

Post by Mint Lounger »

Excellent. Will report back once I check it out. :D
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Re: Extraneous Files Installed?

Post by Mint Lounger »

Kadaitcha Man wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:57 pm
I'm putting you on permanent mute. Nice rant though.
Wow! Just wow!
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Re: Extraneous Files Installed?

Post by Mint Lounger »

smurphos wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:35 am
The former.
Works beautifully...thanks so much! Though I have just looked into Compiz, to see it also has the screen-zoom feature. Now, once I figure out the key commands, I'll see if I'll use that instead. But good to know I can always install Cinammon, just in case. All's well that ends well!

UPDATE: Got Compiz enabled, and I now can enlarge the screen like a champ! So no need to switch to Cinammon, which saves me a bit of a headache. And, of course, will now uninstall kmag like a princess. :lol:

UPDATE 2: It's better than Windows' magnifier, because it enlarges one screen of an extended desktop, rather than both. Much more convenient for me.
Last edited by Mint Lounger on Wed Jan 15, 2020 3:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Extraneous Files Installed?

Post by lsemmens »

The "VLC" files may have been initially developed for VLC media player but have been shown to be useful elsewhere. Back when I was developing (databases) I wrote a heap of utilities that had prog specific names that I ended up using elsewhere. I'm talking back in the day of procedural languages, but, can also be applicable to OOP, too.
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