mint repos not as complete as ubuntu ???

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jupiter66
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mint repos not as complete as ubuntu ???

Post by jupiter66 » Thu May 09, 2013 3:07 pm

I dont't know why, but some packages are not listed in synaptic (or ubuntu software-center) on my mint-13-cinnamon. These packages are listed on xubuntu 12.04. For example: "Master PDF editor" or Steam games (and steam itself).

I compared the activated repos and the only difference was "independant" (in third party), so I have added it in mint 13 (and refreshed) but the packages are still not there...

Mint is supposed to have all ubuntu's packages...?

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karlchen
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Re: mint repos not as complete as ubuntu ???

Post by karlchen » Thu May 09, 2013 5:27 pm

Hello, jupiter66.

If you locate "Master PDF Editor" in the Ubuntu Software Center and if you have look at "more details" or "more information" (whatever the original English link label will be - I see the localized German text) then you will notice that the Software Center takes you to a third party homepage (http://code-industry.net/).
This means "Master PDF Editor" is not part of the official Ubuntu software repositories, instead it will be got from the Ubuntu App Store which offers free and commercial third party software to the Ubuntu users.
So the list of software packages from the official Ubuntu repositories which you will see in genuine Ubuntu and those which you will see in Mint are identical.
But starting with Ubuntu 12.04 the Ubuntu Software Center will also offer third party software. This third party software will not be visible in Synaptic Package Manager e.g. which lists software from the configured repositories only.
the only difference was "independant" (in third party), so I have added it in mint 13 (and refreshed)
Can you explain how you did do this in detail?

Kind regards,
Karl
--
Platforms used to compare the software lists: Ubuntu 12.04.2 x64 and Linux Mint 13 x64
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Linux Mint 19.2 64-bit Cinnamon, Total Commander 9.22a 64-bit
Haß gleicht einer Krankheit, dem Miserere, wo man vorne herausgibt, was eigentlich hinten wegsollte. (Goethe)

jupiter66
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Re: mint repos not as complete as ubuntu ???

Post by jupiter66 » Thu May 09, 2013 5:59 pm

Thank you karichen for these precisions... But there is still an issue, since I have installed "Ubuntu softtware centre" on my mint13 and I don't see from there the missing packages. And If I go to Ubuntu apps directory (https://apps.ubuntu.com/cat/application ... df-editor/) and click to install the package, I get an error message (package not found).

So to be clear :

1) How can I install these kind of "external" packages from apps.ubuntu.com ?
2) How can I have them listed (and installed) with Ubuntu Software Centre ?

jupiter66
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Re: mint repos not as complete as ubuntu ???

Post by jupiter66 » Thu May 09, 2013 9:18 pm

After some research, here is what I understand. Ubuntu Software Center (USC) can run in Mint (13 at least) but it will not see more packages than synaptic. On Ubuntu, other packages (external applications, free or not) are listed and installable. So on Mint, it's not as easy as on Ubuntu so get these apps.

I found a "hack" about a Python file (/usr/share/software-center/softwarecenter/distro/LinuxMint.py) to edit and recompile, but It's well above my knowledge. Maybe an updated file could be put somewhere for download? It would be nice for all of us...

I found another hack consisting of editing by hand some files:
http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions ... 4175444553

As I understand, this is like re-branding nearly all the system (good?) and would not be permanent. I did't try it yet.

I also tried deepin-software-center, because I read somewhere it could be an alternative. However, I see there the same packages as in synaptic so I removed it.

I like Mint, but I'm disappointed by this issue and surprised that no easy fix seems to exist.

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karlchen
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Re: mint repos not as complete as ubuntu ???

Post by karlchen » Sat May 11, 2013 5:02 pm

Hello, jupiter66.
I like Mint, but I'm disappointed by this issue and surprised that no easy fix seems to exist.
You obviously consider it a bug. But is it really?
There might be a legal reason why the "third party software, free and commercial" is only displayed by the Ubuntu Software Center on genuine Ubuntu, but not on Mint, even if you have installed the Ubuntu Software Center on Mint: There may be a contract between Ubuntu and the software creators which grants the right to offer their software only to Ubuntu, but not to Mint.
It might be a design decision of the Mint makers to make sure that their Mint does not offer the Ubuntu "third party software, free and commercial".
It might be a technical limitation built-in into the Ubuntu "third party software, free and commercial" category which makes sure that it will be displayed on genuine Ubuntu only.

Kind regards,
Karl
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Linux Mint 19.2 64-bit Cinnamon, Total Commander 9.22a 64-bit
Haß gleicht einer Krankheit, dem Miserere, wo man vorne herausgibt, was eigentlich hinten wegsollte. (Goethe)

cwsnyder
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Re: mint repos not as complete as ubuntu ???

Post by cwsnyder » Sat May 11, 2013 7:03 pm

That third party software is also not tested with Mint, only with Ubuntu, and not guaranteed to run with Mint, even after you pony up the cash.

If you want to run Ubuntu, run Ubuntu, possibly with some of the Mint add-ons or desktops. If you want to run Mint with the Mint stability, run Mint. They are different distributions, and software which is designed to run on one is not guaranteed to run on the other.

Ubuntu is 'based on Debian', but many packages for Debian don't run on Ubuntu, or vice versa.
LMDE Mate 64-bit, LM17.3 Cinnamon 64-bit
Debian Mate 64-bit, Xubuntu xenial 64-bit, Ubuntu-Mate 14.04 64-bit, Antergos Xfce 64-bit, PCLinuxOS Mate 64-bit

argon99
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Re: mint repos not as complete as ubuntu ???

Post by argon99 » Sat May 11, 2013 11:55 pm

Re: mint repos not as complete as ubuntu ???

Postby cwsnyder on Sat May 11, 2013 7:03 pm
That third party software is also not tested with Mint, only with Ubuntu, and not guaranteed to run with Mint, even after you pony up the cash.

If you want to run Ubuntu, run Ubuntu, possibly with some of the Mint add-ons or desktops. If you want to run Mint with the Mint stability, run Mint. They are different distributions, and software which is designed to run on one is not guaranteed to run on the other.

Ubuntu is 'based on Debian', but many packages for Debian don't run on Ubuntu, or vice versa.
This is a BS reply.

I like mint but saying something like this is beyond brain dead. To ignore the deficiencies is to invite mediocraty. I installed mint on my wifes box. The first thing I did was to try and install k3b. It comes up in synaptic and starts to load. After it tells me that it can't find half the files it needs. There is no excuse for this. That is something a script on the server could solve. But is it there? Of course not. So now I have a half installed program that I have to take the time and back off then find it somewhere else. Just plain a waste of my time. Isn't that the very thing that repositories were supposed to fix??

zerozero
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Re: mint repos not as complete as ubuntu ???

Post by zerozero » Sun May 12, 2013 12:21 am

argon99 wrote:I like mint but saying something like this is beyond brain dead. To ignore the deficiencies is to invite mediocraty. I installed mint on my wifes box. The first thing I did was to try and install k3b. It comes up in synaptic and starts to load. After it tells me that it can't find half the files it needs. There is no excuse for this. That is something a script on the server could solve. But is it there? Of course not. So now I have a half installed program that I have to take the time and back off then find it somewhere else. Just plain a waste of my time. Isn't that the very thing that repositories were supposed to fix??
what you are experiencing has nothing to do with the topic's subject. update your system (the little shield in the panel) and after that try to install again k3b.
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jupiter66
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Re: mint repos not as complete as ubuntu ???

Post by jupiter66 » Sun May 12, 2013 8:04 am

karlchen wrote: There might be a legal reason why the "third party software, free and commercial" is only displayed by the Ubuntu Software Center on genuine Ubuntu, but not on Mint, even if you have installed the Ubuntu Software Center on Mint: There may be a contract between Ubuntu and the software creators which grants the right to offer their software only to Ubuntu, but not to Mint.
This would be very bad... but is it the reality? I have many doubts.
karlchen wrote: It might be a design decision of the Mint makers to make sure that their Mint does not offer the Ubuntu "third party software, free and commercial".
It might be a technical limitation built-in into the Ubuntu "third party software, free and commercial" category which makes sure that it will be displayed on genuine Ubuntu only.
Actually, it seems to be a technical limitation since some re-branding (or a fixed .py file) is supposed to do the trick. If it is a design decision, I think it has to be revised. I understand that some people can be emotional about non-free products on linux. But many are free. If necessary, we could activate the non-free ones separately... At the end, It is the user's choice.

The argument "not tested for Mint" is not receivable from my point of view. Mint makers are not testing every Ubuntu packages on the repos. The fact that they "should work" on the parent ubuntu release (ex. precise for maya) is a sufficient reason to offer them in Mint. Except for desktop environment specific reasons, I really don't see why a working ubuntu package wouldn’t work on mint (we don't talk about LMDE here). The chances that this happens are even smaller since Ubuntu software center works also on xubuntu (xfce is not unity). At the end, even if some rare packages are incompatible with Mint (but why?), is it a good reason to censure all the others? Really, it harms more than it helps.

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xenopeek
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Re: mint repos not as complete as ubuntu ???

Post by xenopeek » Sun May 12, 2013 1:38 pm

jupiter66 wrote:At the end, even if some rare packages are incompatible with Mint (but why?), is it a good reason to censure all the others?
Censure? Let's not be dramatic about this, Linux Mint is not censuring :) Software Manager is not Ubuntu Software Centre, it's as simple as that. As detailed above, USC can install software from sources outside the Ubuntu repositories and it allows you to purchase commercial software (generating income for Canonical). Software Manager is an APT front-end and so installs software from the configured APT repositories. It has no functionality for purchasing commercial software or for installing software from outside the configured APT repositories. If you want/need the additional software offered by USC, installing it is one option for that. There are various topics on the forums and on the Community site on how to install it.

And this is not above free vs. non-free software either; while Linux Mint prefers free software, as shown by all the Linux Mint developed software being licensed under the GPL, if there is no viable free software alternative then Linux Mint will pragmatically include non-free software. Such as Adobe Flash Player and Skype.
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jupiter66
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Re: mint repos not as complete as ubuntu ???

Post by jupiter66 » Sun May 12, 2013 5:08 pm

xenopeek wrote:[If you want/need the additional software offered by USC, installing it is one option for that.
This is the point of this topic: I can install USC on Mint and it runs, but it doesn't give access to the additional software like on Ubuntu...

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