Problem with Mint updater scheduler ?

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Pjotr
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Re: Problem with Mint updater scheduler ?

Post by Pjotr »

WinterTroubles wrote:Pjotr

Just a thought.. do you find yourself opening/using Synaptic or Software Manager most days (possibly as a result of the support you offer others here), if so could that account for your regular update notifications from Mintupdate when it was set to 'daily'?

Regards
WT
That's probably the case on my machines, yes.... That might explain it.

Then karlchen's observation from some months ago might still be valid. If so, I think this behaviour of Update Manager is highly undesirable.
@karlchen: have you ever discussed this with Clem or another Mint dev?
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Re: Problem with Mint updater scheduler ?

Post by Pjotr »

OK, hereby a follow-up:

karlchen and I have spoken about this in PM's, and he's trying to contact the Mint developers about this.

In the meantime you can use this workaround, when you want to increase the update interval:
https://sites.google.com/site/easylinux ... ew-updates
(item 2, left column)

That should ensure that you'll never miss update notifications, even when you've configured large intervals.
Last edited by Pjotr on Thu May 28, 2015 5:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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WinterTroubles
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Re: Problem with Mint updater scheduler ?

Post by WinterTroubles »

Thanks for the follow-up Pjotr

I have bookmarked your up-dated instructions to pass on the next time this issue arises.

Regarding my own experiment with setting update interval to 'daily', as I'm subscribed to Ubuntu security notices so am unlikely to miss any critical security updates, I will continue with it for now in an attempt to confirm that the use of Synaptic is the reason you were seeing available updates when others weren't.. unless this has already been confirmed, of course.

Regards
WT
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Re: Problem with Mint updater scheduler ?

Post by karlchen »

... trying to contact the Mint developers about this.
=> mintupdate 4.8.1 may fail to ever query the repos on systems which are not up 24 * 7
Unless we are on the absolute wrong track, there might some feedback on this some day, I hope ...
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Re: Problem with Mint updater scheduler ?

Post by WinterTroubles »

My 'experiment', mentioned above, is now complete and I can confirm, unsurprisingly, that on my machine when MintUpdate is set to 'refresh' at an interval greater than daily uptime I do not get notified of available update/upgrades. Using Synaptic, when clicking reload before use, does refresh the package lists, of course, and MintUpdate then notifies of available updates/upgrades on next boot.

I doubt this comes as a surprise, however as I have now experienced this myself I will add my comments to Karlchens bug report.

Regards
WT
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Re: Problem with Mint updater scheduler ?

Post by Pjotr »

@WinterTroubles: thanks....

@karlchen: maybe I should file a Launchpad bug report about it (which is the thing to do for reporting bugs in Ubuntu). Are Launchpad bug reports customary for Mint as well?
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Re: Problem with Mint updater scheduler ?

Post by karlchen »

Hello, Pjotr.

Well, the Get Involved webpage, accessible from inside the local Welcome Screen, still recommends
Bug reports
If you've noticed something that doesn't work properly while using Linux Mint, let us know. The problem you have discovered is likely to affect others as well; The sooner we know about it, the sooner we're able to fix it.
Report a bug
The link will take you to the Linuxmint subpage inside Launchpad. So I assume that the answer to your question will be: yes, they are.
I had decided to add a comment on Github, because this is the place where mintupdate is maintained.

Cheers,
Karl
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Re: Problem with Mint updater scheduler ?

Post by Frankus333 »

Pjotr wrote:OK, hereby a follow-up:

karlchen and I have spoken about this in PM's, and he's trying to contact the Mint developers about this.

In the meantime you can use this workaround, when you want to increase the update interval:
https://sites.google.com/site/easylinux ... ew-updates
(item 1.2.2, left column)

That should ensure that you'll never miss update notifications, even when you've configured large intervals.
Thanks Pjotr for this workaround.

If I understand what it is doing properly, it is updating the local cache during initial bootup, rather than getting mintupdate itself to query the databases. It therefore relies on this happening before mintupdate checks the local cache at the time of initial login. I found that if I logged in too quickly, the local cache had not been updated, and the mintupdate query still returned no updates, until the next reboot. This could lead to the situation where the machine is only really presented with updates on every second boot.

I found that setting the timing to 30 rather than 50 made it more likely that mintupdate would have the new updates available for me each boot. Is there likely to be any problems in setting the timing to occur this soon during bootup?

Is there any command that can be used to run the refresh of mintupdate itself after login? My preference would be for the updates check to occur a few minutes after login, after everything has settled down. My vague understanding of other posts about this topic is that it is not possible to get mintupdate to refresh with a terminal command. However, your workaround is not exactly the same as a manual terminal command (e.g.; not requiring sudo)
Last edited by Frankus333 on Wed Apr 29, 2015 7:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Problem with Mint updater scheduler ?

Post by Pjotr »

Frankus333 wrote: Thanks Pjotr for this workaround.

If I understand what it is doing properly, it is updating the local cache, rather than getting mintupdate itself to query the databases. It therefore relies on this happening before mintupdate checks the local cache at the time of initial bootup. I found that if I signed in too quickly, the local cache had not been updated, and the mintupdate query still returned no updates, until the next reboot. This could lead to the situation where the machine is only really presented with updates on every second boot.

I found that setting the timing to 30 rather than 50 made it more likely that mintupdate would have the new updates available for me each boot. Is there likely to be any problems in setting the timing to occur this soon during bootup?
Not necessarily, but I set the timer to 50 seconds because some computers need more time than others to connect to a wireless network. With a waiting period of 50 seconds, you can be reasonably sure that even slowly connecting computers will have established internet connection before running "apt-get update". :)
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Re: Problem with Mint updater scheduler ?

Post by Frankus333 »

Thanks Pjotr

I see it is a delicate balance. Too long a delay and the user may have logged in (and triggered the mintupate refresh cache check) before the cache has been updated via your workaround. Too short a delay results in your cache update attempt before the internet connection is established, thus missing out on being able to update. Erring on the side of a longer delay at least allows updates to be presented every second boot for users in a hurry, rather than never.

I guess the ideal would be to have mintupdate do a full apt-get update refresh check rather than just a cache check as it comes up after login, keeping that separate from the full refresh that is run at whatever interval is set by the user. I will await with interest any developments from the team.
Frankus333: LM18.3 KDE 64 bit; HP 15 laptop, 4GB RAM, CPU Celeron dual core N2840 2.5GHz, 500GB HDD (triple boot LM19.2 XFCE, Win 8.1)

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Re: Problem with Mint updater scheduler ?

Post by Pjotr »

Frankus333 wrote:Thanks Pjotr

I see it is a delicate balance. Too long a delay and the user may have logged in (and triggered the mintupate refresh cache check) before the cache has been updated via your workaround. Too short a delay results in your cache update attempt before the internet connection is established, thus missing out on being able to update. Erring on the side of a longer delay at least allows updates to be presented every second boot for users in a hurry, rather than never.

I guess the ideal would be to have mintupdate do a full apt-get update refresh check rather than just a cache check as it comes up after login, keeping that separate from the full refresh that is run at whatever interval is set by the user. I will await with interest any developments from the team.
That describes it well, I think.... And your improvement suggestion looks sound to me. If you want to bring this matter to the attention of the developers, you could use the idea section for that:
http://community.linuxmint.com/idea/search
Tip: 10 things to do after installing Linux Mint 19.3 Tricia
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