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minty_breath
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mintInstall suggestion

Post by minty_breath » Wed Mar 04, 2009 11:27 pm

I used mintinstall to try a few different kinds of software. After trying them I decided I didn't want them after all. So I went to uninstall them...... I had used Ubuntu before Linux Mint so I was used to the Add/Remove software program. The only place I could figure out to get rid of the unwanted items was the Synaptic Package Manager. But obviously I'm a noob cuz I got rid of more than I was supposed to and messed up Linux Mint. After a new install of Mint I have decided not to mess with Synaptic! Anyways my "suggestion" was that mintInstall has an option to list only the installed items on the system and put in a safe way to remove stuff.

The thing that got me to stick with linux this time (after trying it a few years back) was being able to add software without using the terminal. I enjoy trying different bits of software but I have limited space on this old machine so if I don't end up using something I need it gone.

Other than that minor issue I think Linux Mint is the best distro out there and I will enjoy watching it grow (and it will!).

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Fred
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Re: mintInstall suggestion

Post by Fred » Wed Mar 04, 2009 11:53 pm

minty_breath wrote:
The thing that got me to stick with linux this time (after trying it a few years back) was being able to add software without using the terminal.
I don't understand this irrational fear/loathing/avoidance of the CLI. You would choose to not use Linux and accept the insecurity and abusive practices of Microsoft and their OSs to avoid typing:

apt-get install program_name
or
apt-get remove program_name

at a CLI prompt!? I am speechless and completely dumbfounded at how anyone could find that to be at all rational.

Fred
Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over and each time expecting a different result.

Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on the menu. Liberty is an armed lamb protesting the electoral outcome. A Republic negates the need for an armed protest.

minty_breath
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Re: mintInstall suggestion

Post by minty_breath » Thu Mar 05, 2009 12:13 am

OK then. Lighten up. You have successfully made me feel stupid. Are you happy Fred? It's obvious that Linux Mint is for noobs aswell. I did make use of the terminal for the first time with the info you gave me so thanks. But I don't see my mom ever trying to type in commands! Point and click is probably how most will figure all this out at first. So my "suggestion" still stands.

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Fred
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Re: mintInstall suggestion

Post by Fred » Thu Mar 05, 2009 12:26 am

minty_breath,
You have successfully made me feel stupid.
No, please, I didn't mean it in that way. I was using your statement, that I have seen so many times, to make a point, not make a personal attack on you. There seem to be many people indeed that have made that very decision to avoid the CLI. My reason for pointing it out was to show the irrationality of such a decision. Not to make you look bad. For that I apologize.

Fred
Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over and each time expecting a different result.

Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on the menu. Liberty is an armed lamb protesting the electoral outcome. A Republic negates the need for an armed protest.

minty_breath
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Re: mintInstall suggestion

Post by minty_breath » Thu Mar 05, 2009 12:36 am

Well alright. Good stuff. O and I just figured out that all you gotta do is right-click on any highlighted item in the menu and there is an uninstall option! Geez :lol: So now I feel stupid on my own account. Ya live ya learn

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Re: mintInstall suggestion

Post by qbicdesign » Tue Mar 10, 2009 7:54 pm

Fred wrote: apt-get install program_name
or
apt-get remove program_name
but, for that method you need to know the app name - not always easy to find, and you might not uninstall all the dependency junk which came with the app...

My opinion s that for Mint, the menu right-click uninstall is recommended safe method. But I'd like to know from the developers for sure...
any takers?

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Fred
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Re: mintInstall suggestion

Post by Fred » Tue Mar 10, 2009 9:30 pm

qbicdesign,

Actually the thrust of my post was toward illogical fear or loathing of the command line to the point that many would choose to change OSs rather than even consider typing a single line of text in the CLI. So many users coming from Windows will hunt for and struggle with GUI programs, menus and screens for hours trying to find a solution rather than even consider a CLI solution even when it is put right in front of them. I really don't get it, honest. I was inappropriately hard on the thread starter in my response, but that wasn't my intention. I wish I had phrased my response better.

Addressing your point, strictly from a technical point of view "apt" is the lowest level and most precise automated fetch and install coordination routine in Debian and derivative distros. "Aptitude" makes a few more assumptions regarding dependencies therefore is less precise. "Synaptic" makes many more automated decisions about dependencies and is the least precise of the three packages. Actually, both "aptitude" and "synaptic" build on top of "apt" just with greater degrees of automation, therefore having less precision.

I will be the first to admit that automation and its' resulting lack of precision is a double edged sword. It is a little like an auto-pilot on an airplane. In most cases an auto-pilot can fly an airplane better than an inexperienced pilot. But an auto-pilot can never compete with an experienced pilot, especially when decisions and value judgments must be made. The same can be said when comparing "apt" and "synaptic." A reasonably proficient Linux user is much more likely to bork his system with constant use of "synaptic" on a modern fast moving distro than would be likely using "apt." I never remove something with "synaptic" for that very reason. I will install a simple program with "synaptic" from time to time but I never try to remove anything with it. But that is just me. I tend to be more conservative than most.

In short, I continue to feel that both the CLI and the GUI have their place. To get the most out of Linux a new user should become familiar with the CLI to do the tasks that it is best at. It will open up a whole new set of possibilities and capabilities they didn't know even existed and will serve them well in the long run.

Fred
Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over and each time expecting a different result.

Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on the menu. Liberty is an armed lamb protesting the electoral outcome. A Republic negates the need for an armed protest.

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Re: mintInstall suggestion

Post by Flywaver » Wed Apr 15, 2009 11:08 pm

I have just started using Mint myself and I *do* miss the add/remove method of Ubuntu!
mintInstall only tells you what apps are available and you have no way of knowing if it's already installed or not...I don't see the fuss of opening a terminal when Ubuntu has a complete Add/Remove software option! :roll:

So far I love Mint, it's got great features but I'd love to see a more complete mintInstall! By that, I also mean let's see more recent version of apps! :wink:

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Aging Technogeek
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Re: mintInstall suggestion

Post by Aging Technogeek » Thu Apr 16, 2009 7:25 am

Flywaver:

When you select an app in mintInstall, click on Versions. It will tell you if you already have the app installed and what version you have. It will also tell you what version is available to install so you can update if needed.
Registered Linux User 483387

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kneekoo
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Re: mintInstall suggestion

Post by kneekoo » Tue Jul 07, 2009 10:10 am

minty_breath does have point. It would be nice if mintInstall would have an uninstall option. Although I have installed hordes of applications through the CLI, I can't say I like that. Using a GUI is not a Microsoft monopoly over the brainpower of mankind so let's leave M$ out of the picture on this one. It's about easier control of a machine that allows even non-technical people to do normal tasks like installing and uninstalling applications. The CLI isn't much friendlier either when it pops-up with the request for another 30-40 dependencies while the regular user doesn't have a clue what those cryptically-named apps are. After all, which normal user reads half a screen of dependencies and tries to understand what's there so he can decide whether to choose Yes or No?

Anyway, the point is one of Mint's goals is to contribute where beginners need most - simplicity with Linux. For a simple user, using the CLI inside a user-friendly environment is equal to having a nice car but occasionally he needs to pop the hood and maintain the car's parts (engine, plugs etc). It's very easy to us, the experienced ones, to forget how awful can such an experience be for a regular user. Automation is required until you're ready to take things in your hands so the proposal here was the addition of the uninstall option. I suppose the right-clicking he mentioned was in Synaptic, because mintInstall doesn't have it.

But how do we automate minInstall without doing bad things like bloat or damage? I'm sure there are more ways to skin a cat, but mintInstall could simply log installed applications in a manner that it could simply re-read the logs to quickly find out what is installed so it can show it accordingly in mintInstall and allow the application to be uninstalled. Based on the logs, mintInstall will know exactly what went inside the system in the first place so it can remove the whole lists of packages.

A renewed "Fetured Applications" feature would also make mintInstall easier to use. It would be very nice if there were more profiles in this section, so people can quickly check a list of "web developer most wanted", "gamers most wanted", "all-time most wanted" applications out there. Even cooler, mintInstall could offer the users the possibility to create personal lists and share them with others. This is actually what Mozilla did recently to their add-ons service and it's great but its main pitfall is that you can't just check the whole category and perform a batch install of all. However, this could be easily done in mintInstall because it's much easier to check all boxes and maybe uncheck 2-3, then click Install/Apply.

Storing application lists could be a tedious task. Maybe the safest way to lower the necessary resources while keeping an exact record on them would be to store all the application names and versions inside a database and only store their IDs in the custom software lists people save and share. What I'm talking about is something like this:

THE DATABASE (TABLE):
app_id | app_name | app_short_desc
----------|-------------|----------------------------------------
_____1_|_alsa-base_| ALSA driver configuration files
_____2_|_alsa-utils_| ALSA utilities
...........................................................................
__3491_|_ksudoku_| Sudoku puzzle game and solver for KDE 4
.............. and so on ..............

THE USER'S CUSTOM LIST:
1, 2, 3491, 2429, 5413, 239, 22, 6592

That's it. With that database the lists would be easily manageable. Now the problem is some applications come and go and some of them have version numbers in their name. The application database could easily grow very large through the years. The solution for this would be the addition of an extra field in that table - app_last_request - which will be update each time a user asks for that specific package. Another field would allow the admins to find out what packages are the most popular: app_times_requested. Then if the database gets way too crowded, the admins will easily be able to remove packages that haven't been requested in more than 2 years maybe - this way excluding already old and unmaintained apps but also the unused ones.

I'm a web developer and I have some experience with Linux, so this is how I managed to get all the information about the packages and create the needed data for a simple table like the one described above:

1. issued the following CLI command:

Code: Select all

apt-cache search . > apt-list.txt
2. Using PHP, I have quickly processed that file and create a nice table in HTML (the MySQL inserts are equally simple):

Code: Select all

<?php
$index = 1;
$pkgs = fopen("apt-list.txt", "r");
echo "<table border='1'>
  <tr>
    <th>index</th>
    <th>name</th>
    <th>description</th>
  </tr>\n";
while (!feof($pkgs)) {
$row = explode(" - ", fgets($pkgs), 2);
echo "
  <tr>
    <td>" . $index++ . "</td>
    <td>" . $row[0] . "</td>
    <td>" . $row[1] . "</td>
  </tr>\n";
}
echo "</table>
<span style='color: red; font-weight: bold'>DONE!</span>";
fclose($pkgs);
?>
This could be a foundation for the application/package server. Out of curiosity I also prepared a table and added all data inside my DB. It only took a few seconds. Now the interface to this... is another thing. I mostly code back-end stuff because I don't have front-end/design skills. :P I only come up with ideas regarding front-end functionality. I would rather design a complicated back-end than blowing my brains out for an eye-candy design that I know for sure I'm not able to produce - not even for my own taste. :lol:

Well... enough with the off-topic. What I wanted to do here is to prove that such an idea is not complicated to put in practice so maybe/hopefully the Mint team will consider this. I'm sure there's a constant wave of ideas lurking inside Mint's development team and only some get to light from one version to another but I hope adding, removing and using/creating favourite software lists for batch installs will be in Mint 8. OK... maybe Mint 9. :P But removing software should get in as soon as possible. It's OK to offer people a way to get professional with Linux but it's not OK to force them to achieve such skills if they don't want nor need them. I guess that was part of the point of this thread.

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Fred
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Re: mintInstall suggestion

Post by Fred » Tue Jul 07, 2009 1:38 pm

Greetings and salutations sir. And welcome to Linux Mint kneekoo. :-)

kneekoo wrote:
Using a GUI is not a Microsoft monopoly over the brainpower of mankind so let's leave M$ out of the picture on this one.
I referred to Microsoft because it is users coming from Windows that seem to have the greatest aversion to the CLI. I don't see this phenomenon with ex-users of BSD, Unix, or even Mac users. They seem to be more open to learning new ways of doing things.

I have seen the following scenario play out many times with a new user coming form Windows. They want to do a certain task, but there is no default GUI to do it. Someone offers them a simple one line CLI solution. They ignore it and proceed to download all manner of GUI applications trying to find a GUI way forward. Then they have to learn to navigate the new GUI program before they can even try to do the task. This can play out several times over hours and days. Sometimes they succeed and sometimes they don't. If they had been willing to spend just a tenth of the time to learn and understand the CLI solution it would have been a far easier task to accomplish.
It's about easier control of a machine...
There is an assumption here, that runs throughout the post, that GUIs are universally easier than the CLI. Navigating GUIs in general may be more familiar to Windows users in particular, but not necessarily easier. Certainly not true for new computer users, that have little or no experience with any OS. Most favor the CLI in many cases over some of the more complicated, convoluted GUIs. In true ease of use scenarios, both GUIs and the CLI have their place. To intentionally limit yourself to GUIs cuts you off from a very powerful and efficient tool in Linux. Learning new things is not a bad thing. :-)
Based on the logs, mintInstall will know exactly what went inside the system in the first place so it can remove the whole lists of packages.
The apt package management system already does this. It also keeps up with the dependencies of the installed programs. I think you should dig into the apt package management system a little deeper. It isn't quite as simple as your suggestion supposes. What you are suggesting is like re-inventing the wheel and leaving out the spokes. By-the way, mintInstall is just another front end for apt. Also, if you like the "add/remove" applet in Ubuntu, install it from the repos. It too is just another front end for apt.

Enjoy life, it is too short to do otherwise. :-)

Fred
Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over and each time expecting a different result.

Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on the menu. Liberty is an armed lamb protesting the electoral outcome. A Republic negates the need for an armed protest.

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Re: mintInstall suggestion

Post by DrHu » Tue Jul 07, 2009 1:58 pm

Fred wrote:There is an assumption here, that runs throughout the post, that GUIs are universally easier than the CLI. Navigating GUIs in general may be more familiar to Windows users in particular, but not necessarily easier. Certainly not true for new computer users, that have little or no experience with any OS. Most favor the CLI in many cases over some of the more complicated, convoluted GUIs. In true ease of use scenarios, both GUIs and the CLI have their place. To intentionally limit yourself to GUIs cuts you off from a very powerful and efficient tool in Linux. Learning new things is not a bad thing
Yes and even Microsoft and Apple realize that gui is not all powerful or always as useful as it could be..
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2 ... fault.mspx
http://developer.apple.com/documentatio ... ction.html

Minutupdate, what's it all about Alfie?..
Also, even though Mint includes their custom tool Mintupdate, they also include synaptic package manager in their menu system..

They quite obviously don't expect Mintupdate to be a complete system/application update/install utility; and since I like synaptic, I have to thank them for not trying to completely replace it with some other method, as Ubuntu seems to want to with Adept or some newer package system
http://packages.ubuntu.com/dapper/adept
http://blog.mypapit.net/2007/03/put-apt ... ebian.html
--or something like aptonCD which enables a local setup for repository files (installed) so you don't depend on the Internet connection to reinstall an application..

The ever useful console/command line ..
http://wiki.debian.org/DebianGuide
List installed packages
1. Open a console window (Applications -> System Tools-> Terminal in GNOME)
2. Type "dpkg --list"
3. You may want to pipe (redirect) that to a program called "less" since the list will be long (type "dpkg --list | less")
In terminal dpkg --list >installed-apps.txt ; here, redirected into a filename.txt
--runs very quickly, makes a small file and gives you a list of applications and their status on the system, apart from applications installed from source files (not managed via the package managers).

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kneekoo
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Re: mintInstall suggestion

Post by kneekoo » Wed Jul 08, 2009 3:52 am

Thank you for the answers, you CLI defending buggers. Yes, I meant that as I friendly joke. :) And thank you for the welcome.

1. I are missing one point here. I dare to say a strong one. Not all people need to knowledge to perform various PC tasks. That's to say the majority would like to keep things simple IF they have to work on PCs (because some people don't even like computers) and most of them prefer GUIs for simplicity reasons. And yes, not all GUIs are user-friendly. I am aware of that. If we would apply the same principle you're defending here... let's say in public transportation... people would probably have to write their own tickets just because the printed ones are temporarily unavailable. Probably a stupid example.

The point is not all people are the DIY type. For some, computers are merely tools that they need to use occasionally to write a mail. We would be irrational to call them stupid or narrow-minded just because they like a simple GUI. My sister is a mother of two 3 and 7 year-old kids. As much as I tried to make the PC more friendly to her, explaining this and that, she keeps throwing it back to me that (1) she doesn't need X ways to do the same thing, (2) she has many other thing to do around the house with the kids and all the work involved, (3) she doesn't need a IT diploma or to stand out among her neighbors with her "special skills". I still think it would be nice if she would be more receptive but on the other hand I can only shut up, understand her wish and stop bugging her (too much :P).

2. This is actually a mintInstall suggestion thread so we are way off-topic. Plus, there are many GUI/CLI pros&cons discussions on the internet so we should find our way out of this discussion and get back on track. I will only end my off-topic with the following: I am an IT guy. I do use CLI a lot, even in Windows - just so you know I don't have anything against the CLI. I am also involved in non-formal education and I "preach" alternatives and the open-minded attitude regarding the computing environment, explaining how we should find the best solutions not by following blindly the majority but find what's more useful to us, the most relevant to our needs, even if that means switching operating systems back and forth for certain tasks or using a type of software or another. I'm telling you this because you obviously don't know me and that lead to the incorrect interpretation of my comment on the CLI/GUI.

3. Actually, I'm not reinventing the wheel - but I might improve it a little. I just hoped my suggestion would've been viewed in a different light, not the "reinventing" one. After all, if one would seriously look into that proposal it would be very easy to spot some things that can actually make mintInstall better with installing/uninstalling. There no point into throwing me to Ubuntu's software. It's like Mint developers can't improve their software? We know they're constantly doing it.

Installing applications is easy with this tool. But install logs could significantly take less space if they would be stored in a different manner. Based on that application database I suggested above we could simply write in the installation log the IDs of the installed packages, line by line for each request, the first ID being the one ticked in mintInstall's GUI, then the following IDs - on the same line - the dependencies, if there are any. Now I don't know exactly what happens in the background and if this approach is at least close to a very good one, but I think this approach deserves a better look at it.

I know about apt's logs. I'm definitely not an expert with Linux but I am also not a newbie - yet another thing that might be good to know about me. I'm into Linux since 5-6 years ago and although I never worked hard to learn everything under the hood, I played around with many Debian based distros but also *BSD, QNX, and many other Linux distros - and when I say many, I mean it - about 30-40. I am avid for information and I like exploring things. It's just a matter of need, will and mood how far I go deep down the rabbit hole.

Exploring so much opened my eyes in many ways. Anyway, I'm an old CLI user - having written many batch scripts for DOS (yeah, back those days) and NT servers + others. But having technically assisted hundreds of people - if I haven't crossed the 1000 mark (my job contributed to these numbers) - I have come to see many types of stupidity AND genuine reasons for using better GUIs. My suggestion here was an input on how mintInstall could do things better. It's just an opinion but I hope it stands a chance of proper evaluation.

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Re: mintInstall suggestion

Post by Fred » Wed Jul 08, 2009 5:41 am

kneekoo,

In reference to the GUI vs CLI discussion, one of my main points was that familiarity based on previous experience is not the same as ease of use. People had to learn how to navigate and use GUIs when they first tried to use a mostly GUI based OS. When they change to an OS that has a strong CLI component, it shouldn't come as a surprise that some level of competence with the CLI would be advisable to get the most benefit from the new OS. So many have been mislead into believing that Linux is a drop-in replacement for Windows. They have been done a disservice. If they are not ready, regardless of the reason, to put forth at least some effort to learn a new set of programs, new GUIs, and a new way of doing things they will not be happy and will fail to make the transition. And yes, learning at least a little bit about how to use the CLI will be needed too.

To not belabor the point here, you may run across some other posts regarding my experiences with seniors in a nursing home setting and children in a school setting.

As far as your MintInstall suggestion is concerned, all suggestions are welcomed. In this case I wanted to point out that a data base of installed programs is already available along with dependences. Many programs may depend upon one library or another application. You can't just remove what you installed with a given .deb without risking breakage of .debs that were install after the one you want to remove. Some of them may depend upon libraries that you installed but are now trying to remove. Upgrades complicate the issue still further as dependencies may get reshuffled and changed. It is a much more complicated issue than meets the eye at first blush. This is why I threw cold water on the idea before you spent any time on a proof of concept that I am confident will just bring you grief. :-)

If the developers wished to put the un-install function into MintInstall the information and tools they need are already available in the package management system. There have been discussions about the best way to handle un-installing. Clem has expressed the desire to keep MintInstall as simple as possible. Synaptic is there for the more advanced users. The last suggestion I heard that sounded reasonable to me was to make un-install a MintMenu function. Possibly putting it in the right click menu. If this has, or will be implemented I couldn't tell you.

Fred
Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over and each time expecting a different result.

Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on the menu. Liberty is an armed lamb protesting the electoral outcome. A Republic negates the need for an armed protest.

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Re: mintInstall suggestion

Post by kneekoo » Wed Jul 08, 2009 6:33 am

I don't even think we should talk about "CLI vs GUI". These things are not opposite - they are a complement to each other in many ways and it's only sometimes they compete. But the question is "why do they compete?" It's most likely that it's more efficient as a software to write a CLI application, but this approach really takes its toll with the users - which is why the GUIs are everythere - PCs, phones, A/V players, TVs (OSD), fridges and many other stuff. Let's face it, using a GUI on a PC is something a regular user does and using the CLI is something a power-user does.

Should I understand you don't have any habits? All you do is learn something new and you rarely do things the same way? Are you a specialist in everything? Did it never happen that you were unsatisfied or even annoyed to have to get into unwanted details about something? This is what I meant about when talking about the simple users. Our discussion here is nonsense to them. Not only they don't need the power and efficiency of the CLI but they reject it completely - to them, having to use the CLI in any OS is a pain, even if it's simpler (from our point of view).

I'm not talking about eliminating the CLI from the user's learning path. I am talking about optimizing a GUI we already have in Mint - about something clear, specific, on-topic. I'll join you in another thread if you want to chat about CLI/GUI stuff. We've gone far enough and I won't reply on this "versus" thing in here anymore. I hope you understand.

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Re: mintInstall suggestion

Post by Fred » Wed Jul 08, 2009 6:43 am

kneekoo wrote:
Should I understand you don't have any habits? All you do is learn something new and you rarely do things the same way? Are you a specialist in everything?
lol... No there are a couple things, now that you mention it. I have to get one of my daughters to come over and reprogram the TV and remote when I screw it up. :-)

Fred
Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over and each time expecting a different result.

Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on the menu. Liberty is an armed lamb protesting the electoral outcome. A Republic negates the need for an armed protest.

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Re: mintInstall suggestion

Post by fernbap » Sat Jul 18, 2009 10:55 am

Let's face it, either mintinstall is supposed to be a GUI for managing your software, or not. If it is incapable of uninstalling the software it installs itself, then it is not complete. Period.

I use mint, and that was the first thing i found stupid. If the idea of mint is improve over Ubuntu, that is not an improvement. Ubuntu add/remove applications adds and removes applications. Mintinstall does not. Is that so hard to understand?

The fact that i can use other methods for installing or uninstalling software is not an argument. If it is so, then why make minsinstall in the first place?

Face it. There is a cultural barrier here, and arguments about why not using apt-get install are just useless. If mint is supposed to be a desktop distro targeted to linux newbies, you just can't expect the user to use the console ever. As simple as that.

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Re: mintInstall suggestion

Post by kneekoo » Sat Jul 18, 2009 6:42 pm

I do understand your point. That's why I made my own suggestions. However, the application is named mintInstall and it actually does what the name says, while Ubuntu's Add/Remove Applications does the same as the name says. That's taking it literally, of course.

I can say mintInstall still needs some work but I can't call it stupid. It's a very nice application that allows the user to avoid installing software that could break the system and even know which applications are really safe with Mint. That's something highly welcomed in the world of Linux package dependencies.

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Re: mintInstall suggestion

Post by DrHu » Sat Jul 18, 2009 9:12 pm

kneekoo wrote:I don't even think we should talk about "CLI vs GUI". These things are not opposite - they are a complement to each other in many ways and it's only sometimes they compete. But the question is "why do they compete?" It's most likely that it's more efficient as a software to write a CLI application, but this approach really takes its toll with the user
These things are not opposite - they are a complement to each other in many ways
True they are not in general competitors at all..

But I do have to agree with Fred, that a DB style of operation just to manage application installations is not a great idea
Improving an application or suggestions for improvement are fine, as long as they don't change the fundamental operations of the system (OS), and I see some of that in the case of replacing a perfectly good system like apt or aptitude or synaptic with your own customized/distribution specific software manager..

I don't use Mintinstall, except for the initial installation, so any changes/ improvements to that application probably won't affect me
--I do however use Mintupdate, which is Min't gui for apt-notify ot apt-get update on the command line, and I have no issue with doing so..

You might consider windows registry as being in line with that idea (if you think the registry is a DB of some type), it does have search/delete; but in many ways either mintinstall or better synpatic is more useful for managing software..
http://elektra.g4ii.com/Main_Page
http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/4405
  • I sure see a lot of requests to do things the Microsoft Way, but I see little sense in it. A number of recent converts want to get away from Microsoft for whatever reason, but then expect everything to be done in the Microsoft way. I would never even mention Microsoft except as a bad example. Now I hear a cry for a Linux registry. Good grief, Charlie Brown!

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DrHu
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Re: mintInstall suggestion

Post by DrHu » Sat Jul 18, 2009 9:23 pm

fernbap wrote:The fact that i can use other methods for installing or uninstalling software is not an argument. If it is so, then why make minsinstall in the first place?
I think it has its place as an introduction to Mint and applications, such as their recommended or preferred or suggested ones..

The distribution specific software management mistake..
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InstallingSoftware
  • GDebi
    is a graphical application used to install .deb packages. It automatically checks packages for their dependencies and will try to download them from the Ubuntu software repositories if possible
--sometimes suggested for people just looking for a package, but again searching is the issue, what are you looking to install ?

I also believe, as said, that having a distribution create its own software manager, is I think a waste of resources, time and user expectations/experience
--unless you truly believe (and are being honest about this) you have a much better way
that is very hard to do, most guis' look the similar, there is little to distinguish one install/remove method from another in most graphical applications, just as most file managers look similar..

There is also little to distinguish most graphical/desktop OS styles from one another
Apple OS-X, Linux XFCE, Gnome, KDE or Microsoft Windows OS (Vista, next version 7)
for the same reason, distinctiveness just for its own sake is a waste of time..

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