How come the new LInux Kernels suggested by the update manager do not work

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MrT
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How come the new LInux Kernels suggested by the update manager do not work

Post by MrT » Tue May 22, 2018 6:33 pm

I will admit it: I used to be a Linux Kernel junkie. Could not wait to update my kernel to the latest avaialble.
I have since changed my ways and right now as a "born again stick with your linux kernel" I only update when the update manager prompts me to do so.
I was sitting back on my old 4.13.x until I was prompted to go to the 4.15.0.x-y, which I did. For a while it was fine, but beginning in early May 2018, that
does not work anymore. What is going on? It appears all installs fine and when I restart the machine no bizarre messages, but after a few seconds "Cinnamon has crashed.
Starting in rendering mode". Out of curiosity, I tried to install the latest 4.16.10 or whatever it is (See, i really changed my ways as in the past I would have known even at what
time the "thing" was created) . That one fails to install right out of the box.

Have I messed up something? Forgot to update something else? Or is just that the kernels no longer work as smoothly as before? ( noticed that now one has to download 4 files instead of
3 like in the good ol' days).

Any suggestion?
Thank you

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new LInux Kernels

Post by pdc_2 » Tue May 22, 2018 7:38 pm

we decided to be something or other; conservative; careful; boring .... I don't know .......

so we opted just to the use 4.4 kernel;

update tells us there is a new version;

so we just install that;

when we close the computer down, we use that new version when we start it up again;

I monitor the Update Manager; I go to View/linux kernels; I click on older versions of the 4.4 and delete them;

however leaving us with 2-3 of the recent ones lest the latest and greatest slips up after a few days and does bad things;

does any of this help

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Re: How come the new LInux Kernels suggested by the update manager do not work

Post by Rubin_Farr » Tue May 22, 2018 7:52 pm

I would just stick with the 4.13 series since it worked for you. Update to the latest one in 4.13. It's still being updated and should have the latest security patches available.

The different kernels are available to suit different hardware configurations. Some kernels will just not work with certain hardware. There's no point in having the one with the highest of all version numbers (e.g. 4.15) if it doesn't work on your hardware.

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Re: How come the new LInux Kernels suggested by the update manager do not work

Post by MintBean » Tue May 22, 2018 9:02 pm

Only Mint 18 kernels 4.4 and 4.15 have long term support, so you should be using one of those now. 4.13 is only good until end of July before it stops receiving security updates.

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/Support

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Re: How come the new LInux Kernels suggested by the update manager do not work

Post by MrT » Wed May 23, 2018 12:41 am

I am on 4.15.0-15. I think. The problem is that the latest updates to 4.15.0 do not work anymore!
I surely am not going to back to the Age of Stone, also because I have a very high end machine that does not even work with kernels below the 4.10 family. I do not need to be
the first to get the 4.18 kernel even before it is released, but I just wonder if this is the beginning of a rough patch or road (a "Windowization" of Linux Mint) considering that the update Mint itself suggests don't work anymore.
It kind of defeats a big chunk of the purpose to be using Linux Mint.

What happened in the step between 4.15.0-15 to 4.15.0.20+? I know that I am not the only one to have the issue, but still that is not consolation.
I do not derive any joy from the pain of others. I have had some issues with kernels before when I was a "kernel junkie", but always one way or another things were
solved (by me or by the people programming the linux kernels, or by the Mint people). It has been almost a month and things seem to be stuck.

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Re: How come the new LInux Kernels suggested by the update manager do not work

Post by MrT » Wed May 23, 2018 12:42 am

MintBean wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 9:02 pm
Only Mint 18 kernels 4.4 and 4.15 have long term support, so you should be using one of those now. 4.13 is only good until end of July before it stops receiving security updates.

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/Support
That is why I went to 4.15 when prompted by Manager Update... but the last 3 weeks someone broke the kernels :cry:

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Re: new LInux Kernels

Post by MrT » Wed May 23, 2018 12:45 am

pdc_2 wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 7:38 pm
we decided to be something or other; conservative; careful; boring .... I don't know .......

so we opted just to the use 4.4 kernel;

update tells us there is a new version;

so we just install that;

when we close the computer down, we use that new version when we start it up again;

I monitor the Update Manager; I go to View/linux kernels; I click on older versions of the 4.4 and delete them;

however leaving us with 2-3 of the recent ones lest the latest and greatest slips up after a few days and does bad things;

does any of this help
Well, no, not really. I know that.. I always keep one kernel that worked well ready in case there is an emergency. As a kernel junkie I suffered my share of mishaps and the nice grub2 allowed me to fix things easily. The problem is that kernel 4.15.0.20+ is not working properly anymore. 4.15.0.15 works really well. So I revert to it every time the new one fails to work. But it would be nice if at least the updates suggested by Update Manager in MInt worked properly.

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Re: How come the new LInux Kernels suggested by the update manager do not work

Post by smurphos » Wed May 23, 2018 1:15 am

Are you sure your mintupdate is up to date? Kernels from 4.15.0-20 have a different package structure. You need the lastest Mintupdate (5.3.2.3 for 18.3) and an up to date linux-base. Updating mintupdate should sort both out.

viewtopic.php?f=49&t=269028&hilit=Kerne ... 0#p1467429

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Re: How come the new LInux Kernels suggested by the update manager do not work

Post by MrT » Wed May 23, 2018 1:52 am

smurphos wrote:
Wed May 23, 2018 1:15 am
Are you sure your mintupdate is up to date? Kernels from 4.15.0-20 have a different package structure. You need the lastest Mintupdate (5.3.2.3 for 18.3) and an up to date linux-base. Updating mintupdate should sort both out.

viewtopic.php?f=49&t=269028&hilit=Kerne ... 0#p1467429
I do have mintUpdate 5.3.2.3!

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Re: How come the new LInux Kernels suggested by the update manager do not work

Post by MrT » Wed May 23, 2018 2:05 am

sudo apt-get install linux-base

and I got this in reply.

linux-base is already the newest version (4.5ubuntu1~16.04.1).

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Re: How come the new LInux Kernels suggested by the update manager do not work

Post by smurphos » Wed May 23, 2018 2:06 am

What does apt update return? Particularly interested in any errors about packages not fully installed or removed.

Also please report the output of inxi -Fxz

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Re: How come the new LInux Kernels suggested by the update manager do not work

Post by Hoser Rob » Wed May 23, 2018 7:54 am

MrT wrote:
Wed May 23, 2018 12:41 am
... I just wonder if this is the beginning of a rough patch or road (a "Windowization" of Linux Mint) considering that the update Mint itself suggests don't work anymore....
'Windowization'? Not at all. It's quite normal to have this sort of problem in Linux. Just have a look at the Gentoo forums ... much of the discussion there is about kernel juggling. And, since not only the entire Gentoo installation have to be done by building from source but all updates too, Gentoo users know what they're doing. It's not a Mint issue.

The basic cause is probably mostly the fact that there's almost no backwards compatibility in Linux, or forwards either. This is hardly 'Windowization'. If anything MS has the opposite problem. Backwards compatibility is a huge albatross for them. That's why WIndows has never seemes to know what type of OS it is. However, some may feel Linux goes too far in the opposite direction.

Do post the result of inxi -Fxz though. That should have been the first suggestion.

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Re: How come the new LInux Kernels suggested by the update manager do not work

Post by MrT » Wed May 23, 2018 10:28 am

mrt@mrt-WT73VR-7RM ~ $ sudo apt update
[sudo] password for mrt:
Ign:1 http://packages.linuxmint.com sylvia InRelease
Hit:2 https://repo.skype.com/deb stable InRelease
Hit:3 http://packages.linuxmint.com sylvia Release
Hit:4 https://cran.rstudio.com/bin/linux/ubuntu xenial/ InRelease
Hit:5 http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu xenial InRelease
Hit:6 http://archive.canonical.com/ubuntu xenial InRelease
Hit:7 http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu xenial-security InRelease
Hit:8 http://ppa.launchpad.net/graphics-drivers/ppa/ubuntu xenial InRelease
Hit:9 http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu xenial-updates InRelease
Hit:11 http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu xenial-backports InRelease
Hit:12 http://ppa.launchpad.net/jonathonf/python-3.6/ubuntu xenial InRelease
Hit:13 http://ppa.launchpad.net/jonathonf/texlive-2017/ubuntu xenial InRelease
Hit:14 http://ppa.launchpad.net/jonathonf/texlive/ubuntu xenial InRelease
Hit:15 http://ppa.launchpad.net/mozillateam/fi ... ext/ubuntu xenial InRelease
Hit:16 http://ppa.launchpad.net/nilarimogard/webupd8/ubuntu xenial InRelease
Hit:17 http://ppa.launchpad.net/teejee2008/ppa/ubuntu xenial InRelease
Hit:18 http://ppa.launchpad.net/texworks/stable/ubuntu xenial InRelease
Hit:19 http://ppa.launchpad.net/ubuntuhandbook1/apps/ubuntu xenial InRelease
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree
Reading state information... Done
51 packages can be upgraded. Run 'apt list --upgradable' to see them.
mrt@mrt-WT73VR-7RM ~ $

=========================================
all upgradable packages are related to Texlive. I got tired to keep updating as those are huge updates and also consume lots of SSD memory. Like with kernels, I adopted a "if it ain't broken, don't fix it"

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Re: How come the new LInux Kernels suggested by the update manager do not work

Post by MrT » Wed May 23, 2018 10:29 am

mrt@mrt-WT73VR-7RM ~ $ inxi -Fxz
System: Host: mrt-WT73VR-7RM Kernel: 4.15.0-15-generic x86_64 (64 bit gcc: 5.4.0)
Desktop: Cinnamon 3.6.7 (Gtk 3.18.9-1ubuntu3.3)
Distro: Linux Mint 18.3 Sylvia
Machine: Mobo: Micro-Star model: MS-17A1 v: REV:1.0
Bios: American Megatrends v: E17A1IWS.313 date: 01/19/2017
CPU: Quad core Intel Core i7-7820HK (-HT-MCP-) cache: 8192 KB
flags: (lm nx sse sse2 sse3 sse4_1 sse4_2 ssse3 vmx) bmips: 23232
clock speeds: max: 3900 MHz 1: 800 MHz 2: 1747 MHz 3: 850 MHz
4: 815 MHz 5: 1609 MHz 6: 1331 MHz 7: 936 MHz 8: 1485 MHz
Graphics: Card: NVIDIA Device 1bb6 bus-ID: 01:00.0
Display Server: X.Org 1.18.4 drivers: nvidia (unloaded: fbdev,vesa,nouveau)
Resolution: 1920x1080@60.00hz, 1920x1080@75.00hz
GLX Renderer: Quadro P5000/PCIe/SSE2
GLX Version: 4.5.0 NVIDIA 384.130 Direct Rendering: Yes
Audio: Card-1 NVIDIA Device 10f0 driver: snd_hda_intel bus-ID: 01:00.1
Card-2 Intel Device a171 driver: snd_hda_intel bus-ID: 00:1f.3
Card-3 Plantronics driver: USB Audio usb-ID: 001-003
Sound: Advanced Linux Sound Architecture v: k4.15.0-15-generic
Network: Card-1: Intel Device 24fd driver: iwlwifi bus-ID: 02:00.0
IF: wlp2s0 state: up speed: N/A duplex: N/A mac: <filter>
Card-2: Qualcomm Atheros QCA8171 Gigabit Ethernet
driver: alx port: d000 bus-ID: 04:00.0
IF: enp4s0 state: up speed: 1000 Mbps duplex: full mac: <filter>
Drives: HDD Total Size: 1000.2GB (6.2% used)
ID-1: /dev/nvme0n1 model: N/A size: 512.1GB
ID-2: /dev/sda model: HGST_HTS721010A9 size: 1000.2GB
Partition: ID-1: / size: 158G used: 54G (36%) fs: ext4 dev: /dev/nvme0n1p6
ID-2: swap-1 size: 4.10GB used: 0.00GB (0%) fs: swap dev: /dev/nvme0n1p7
RAID: No RAID devices: /proc/mdstat, md_mod kernel module present
Sensors: System Temperatures: cpu: 55.0C mobo: 27.8C gpu: 0.0:45C
Fan Speeds (in rpm): cpu: N/A
Info: Processes: 237 Uptime: 5 min Memory: 1362.2/64380.1MB
Init: systemd runlevel: 5 Gcc sys: 5.4.0
Client: Shell (bash 4.3.481) inxi: 2.2.35
mrt@mrt-WT73VR-7RM ~ $

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Re: How come the new LInux Kernels suggested by the update manager do not work

Post by JerryF » Wed May 23, 2018 10:54 am

Can you post the settings you have in Update Manager?

For example, I have these settings:
Update Preferences 1.JPG
Update Manager Options
Update Preferences 2.JPG
Update Manager Levels
IF your problem has been solved, please edit your original post and add [SOLVED] to the beginning of the Subject Line. It helps other members.

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Re: How come the new LInux Kernels suggested by the update manager do not work

Post by smurphos » Wed May 23, 2018 12:13 pm

Not sure where to go with this. I've just manually updated from 4.13.0-43 to 4.15.0-22 and other than the first reboot being a bit slow everything else appears OK.
My inxi output for reference....

I'm guessing an issue with your Nvidia driver given it's a Cinnamon crash you are experiencing..

Code: Select all

System:    Host: steve-HP-Pavilion-g6-Notebook-PC Kernel: 4.15.0-22-generic x86_64 bits: 64 
           compiler: gcc v: 5.4.0 Desktop: Cinnamon 3.6.7 Distro: Linux Mint 18.3 Sylvia   
Machine:   Type: Laptop System: Hewlett-Packard product: HP Pavilion g6 Notebook PC 
           v: 0690120000204710000620100 serial: N/A 
           Mobo: Hewlett-Packard model: 166F v: 09.4C serial: N/A BIOS: Insyde v: F.66 
           date: 01/24/2013 
Battery:   ID-1: BAT0 charge: 37.7 Wh condition: 37.7/37.7 Wh (100%) 
           model: Hewlett-Packard Primary status: Full 
CPU:       Topology: Dual Core model: Intel Core i5-2430M bits: 64 type: MT MCP 
           arch: Sandy Bridge rev: 7 L2 cache: 3072 KiB 
           flags: lm nx pae sse sse2 sse3 sse4_1 sse4_2 ssse3 vmx bogomips: 19156 
           Speed: 1267 MHz min/max: 800/3000 MHz Core speeds (MHz): 1: 1024 2: 1062 3: 844 
           4: 962 
Graphics:  Card-1: Intel 2nd Generation Core Processor Family Integrated Graphics driver: i915 
           v: kernel bus ID: 00:02.0 
           Display: x11 server: X.Org 1.18.4 driver: none unloaded: fbdev,intel,modesetting,vesa 
           resolution: 1366x768~60Hz 
           OpenGL: renderer: Mesa DRI Intel Sandybridge Mobile v: 3.3 Mesa 17.2.8 
           direct render: Yes 
Audio:     Card-1: Intel 6 Series/C200 Series Family High Definition Audio driver: snd_hda_intel 
           v: kernel bus ID: 00:1b.0 
           Sound Server: ALSA v: k4.15.0-22-generic 
Network:   Card-1: Ralink RT5390 Wireless 802.11n 1T/1R PCIe driver: rt2800pci v: 2.3.0 
           bus ID: 01:00.0 
           IF: wlp1s0 state: down mac: <filter> 
           Card-2: Realtek RTL810xE PCI Express Fast Ethernet driver: r8169 v: 2.3LK-NAPI 
           port: 3000 bus ID: 02:00.0 
           IF: eno1 state: up speed: 100 Mbps duplex: full mac: <filter> 
           IF-ID-1: docker0 state: down mac: <filter> 
Drives:    HDD Total Size: 1.59 TiB used: 851.22 GiB (52.2%) 
           ID-1: /dev/sda model: ST9750423AS size: 698.64 GiB 
           ID-2: /dev/sdb type: USB model: Expansion size: 931.51 GiB 
Partition: ID-1: / size: 681.69 GiB used: 159.95 GiB (23.5%) fs: ext4 dev: /dev/sda1 
           ID-2: swap-1 size: 5.95 GiB used: 0 KiB (0.0%) fs: swap dev: /dev/sda5 
Sensors:   System Temperatures: cpu: 65.0 C mobo: N/A 
           Fan Speeds (RPM): N/A 
Info:      Processes: 228 Uptime: 9m Memory: 5.77 GiB used: 1.54 GiB (26.7%) Init: systemd 
           runlevel: 5 Compilers: gcc: 5.4.0 Shell: bash v: 4.3.48 inxi: 3.0.07 

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Re: How come the new LInux Kernels suggested by the update manager do not work

Post by MrT » Wed May 23, 2018 1:06 pm

JerryF wrote:
Wed May 23, 2018 10:54 am
Can you post the settings you have in Update Manager?

For example, I have these settings:

Update Preferences 1.JPG

Update Preferences 2.JPG
@ Jerry.
My settings are like your yours for Options. As for Levels, I asked that Level 4 be visible,

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Re: How come the new LInux Kernels suggested by the update manager do not work

Post by MrT » Wed May 23, 2018 1:11 pm

smurphos wrote:
Wed May 23, 2018 12:13 pm
Not sure where to go with this. I've just manually updated from 4.13.0-43 to 4.15.0-22 and other than the first reboot being a bit slow everything else appears OK.
My inxi output for reference....

I'm guessing an issue with your Nvidia driver given it's a Cinnamon crash you are experiencing..

Code: Select all

System:    Host: steve-HP-Pavilion-g6-Notebook-PC Kernel: 4.15.0-22-generic x86_64 bits: 64 
           compiler: gcc v: 5.4.0 Desktop: Cinnamon 3.6.7 Distro: Linux Mint 18.3 Sylvia   
Machine:   Type: Laptop System: Hewlett-Packard product: HP Pavilion g6 Notebook PC 
           v: 0690120000204710000620100 serial: N/A 
           Mobo: Hewlett-Packard model: 166F v: 09.4C serial: N/A BIOS: Insyde v: F.66 
           date: 01/24/2013 
Battery:   ID-1: BAT0 charge: 37.7 Wh condition: 37.7/37.7 Wh (100%) 
           model: Hewlett-Packard Primary status: Full 
CPU:       Topology: Dual Core model: Intel Core i5-2430M bits: 64 type: MT MCP 
           arch: Sandy Bridge rev: 7 L2 cache: 3072 KiB 
           flags: lm nx pae sse sse2 sse3 sse4_1 sse4_2 ssse3 vmx bogomips: 19156 
           Speed: 1267 MHz min/max: 800/3000 MHz Core speeds (MHz): 1: 1024 2: 1062 3: 844 
           4: 962 
Graphics:  Card-1: Intel 2nd Generation Core Processor Family Integrated Graphics driver: i915 
           v: kernel bus ID: 00:02.0 
           Display: x11 server: X.Org 1.18.4 driver: none unloaded: fbdev,intel,modesetting,vesa 
           resolution: 1366x768~60Hz 
           OpenGL: renderer: Mesa DRI Intel Sandybridge Mobile v: 3.3 Mesa 17.2.8 
           direct render: Yes 
Audio:     Card-1: Intel 6 Series/C200 Series Family High Definition Audio driver: snd_hda_intel 
           v: kernel bus ID: 00:1b.0 
           Sound Server: ALSA v: k4.15.0-22-generic 
Network:   Card-1: Ralink RT5390 Wireless 802.11n 1T/1R PCIe driver: rt2800pci v: 2.3.0 
           bus ID: 01:00.0 
           IF: wlp1s0 state: down mac: <filter> 
           Card-2: Realtek RTL810xE PCI Express Fast Ethernet driver: r8169 v: 2.3LK-NAPI 
           port: 3000 bus ID: 02:00.0 
           IF: eno1 state: up speed: 100 Mbps duplex: full mac: <filter> 
           IF-ID-1: docker0 state: down mac: <filter> 
Drives:    HDD Total Size: 1.59 TiB used: 851.22 GiB (52.2%) 
           ID-1: /dev/sda model: ST9750423AS size: 698.64 GiB 
           ID-2: /dev/sdb type: USB model: Expansion size: 931.51 GiB 
Partition: ID-1: / size: 681.69 GiB used: 159.95 GiB (23.5%) fs: ext4 dev: /dev/sda1 
           ID-2: swap-1 size: 5.95 GiB used: 0 KiB (0.0%) fs: swap dev: /dev/sda5 
Sensors:   System Temperatures: cpu: 65.0 C mobo: N/A 
           Fan Speeds (RPM): N/A 
Info:      Processes: 228 Uptime: 9m Memory: 5.77 GiB used: 1.54 GiB (26.7%) Init: systemd 
           runlevel: 5 Compilers: gcc: 5.4.0 Shell: bash v: 4.3.48 inxi: 3.0.07 
@ smurphos Thx. Probably.. not sure I have installed new drivers from Nvidia not long ago... I have several new ones.. One is long term, one is more short-term with "advanced" features...
I selected the more balanced long-term one, but I will try if the other drivers perhaps work. In the past, the problem was seldom solved by drivers. I had to wait for Mint people to fix things in general.

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Re: How come the new LInux Kernels suggested by the update manager do not work

Post by JerryF » Wed May 23, 2018 1:36 pm

MrT wrote:
Wed May 23, 2018 1:06 pm
@ Jerry.
My settings are like your yours for Options. As for Levels, I asked that Level 4 be visible,
If you've been installing the Level 4 visible ones, then that may be a cause.
IF your problem has been solved, please edit your original post and add [SOLVED] to the beginning of the Subject Line. It helps other members.

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Re: How come the new LInux Kernels suggested by the update manager do not work

Post by smurphos » Thu May 24, 2018 2:15 am

JerryF wrote:
Wed May 23, 2018 1:36 pm
If you've been installing the Level 4 visible ones, then that may be a cause.
I doubt it - my system is fully upto date including all levels 1 through 4.

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