Why are my applications not the latest possible version?

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pdhunter1987
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Re: Why are my applications not the latest possible version?

Post by pdhunter1987 »

Why is some software not the latest version?
Because your using Linux Mint. :lol:
Want the latest? Install Arch.
-----------------
pdhunter1987
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sudo apt install LinuxMint
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Re: Why are my applications not the latest possible version?

Post by deleted »

Or Debian sid/Unstable (like siduction or Semplice)
-H
DrM
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Re: Why are my applications not the latest possible version?

Post by DrM »

pdhunter1987 wrote:Why is some software not the latest version?
Because your using Linux Mint. :lol:
Want the latest? Install Arch.
Conclusion is that Linux Mint is very conservative when it is about using the latest versions of apps and utils.
deleted

Re: Why are my applications not the latest possible version?

Post by deleted »

^ Many debs are maintained by non Mint folks; It's up to them on when they update the versions.
-H
budasur
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Re: Why are my applications not the latest possible version?

Post by budasur »

It's true I have a problem with the -vf scale filter of Mencoder 1.2.1 (Debian) in Serena.
I'm waiting for a new version.
But with the Ffmpeg package everything works perfectly.
Fixed my issue.

Anyway Mint is still the best in Multimedia. Above Debian, ArchLinux, OpenSuse, Manjaro or FreeBSD.

Undoubtedly.
nomadewolf
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Re: Why are my applications not the latest possible version?

Post by nomadewolf »

The answer is simple:
Keeping all apps updated takes a lot of effort and time.
True that if an update comes out, that implies that there worthwhile improvements to be had, but since the OS is an entire ecosystem, that update can also brings new bugs.
The new bugs will require new updates, and cicle restarts...
Therefore, while not optimal, i can understand...
Lessss
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Re: Why are my applications not the latest possible version?

Post by Lessss »

So if an app is using an ANCIENT version like Kdenlive was still using version 0.9 yes that's a leading zero, it is the Mint team we should be poking with a stick not some other group like debian stable??

I noticed kdenlive jumped from version 0.9 to 16.12.2 with mint 18.1

FreeOrion is now 0.4.5 from 0.4.3-2 but the latest is 0.4.6

What I'd like to see is the top 20 FREE games in the Mint repo getting updated to as close to the latest versions as possible and the same for the top 10 apps of each software manage category. It's just embarrassing that the most recommended distro for windows refugees is so dated in terms of the app version in the software manager.

So again yes it is the Mint team to poke with a stick regarding this??
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killer de bug
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Re: Why are my applications not the latest possible version?

Post by killer de bug »

Lessss wrote:So again yes it is the Mint team to poke with a stick regarding this??
No.
1) It would be Ubuntu/Debian.
2) Please read again the first post. If you need the latest version of each software, Mint is not for you. Look at Arch Linux.
If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.
Lessss
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Re: Why are my applications not the latest possible version?

Post by Lessss »

You need arch is horrible advice. Read MY post again. I don't need the LATEST software I'd just like to know there are people actively keeping things as up to date as they can be still maintaining stability. Seriously Kdenlive jumped from 0.9 to 16. That shouldn't happen!! no piece of software should be frozen for THAT long. there needs to be some kind of progression. I'd be fine with kdenlive version 10 while the up to date version is 16 but version 0.9 to 16 in one jump!!??

Thanks however for pointing me to ubuntu/Debian. I'll go poke them with a stick.
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killer de bug
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Re: Why are my applications not the latest possible version?

Post by killer de bug »

Lessss wrote:I'd be fine with kdenlive version 10 while the up to date version is 16 but version 0.9 to 16 in one jump!!??
With which Mint version are you comparing?
Between Mint 17 and Mint 18 there was 2 years.
Between Mint 13 and Mint 18 there was 4 years.

And during the lifetime of a release, packages are not moving. It's a frozen base. If you want some new libraries, you can install the new version of Ubuntu every 6 months.
If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.
Lessss
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Re: Why are my applications not the latest possible version?

Post by Lessss »

kdenlive went from v0 to v16 over 15 years and is one of the top three programs of it's category. Making the jump from v0 to v16 after it's been in the repos for 13 years isn't a frozen software selection, it's a fossilized one.

Again I'm not saying we need the latest versions at all times but maybe once every two or five years the top X(3,5 or 10) programs of each category could be looked at to see if the version can be advanced while maintaining stability.

It's been pointed out to me it isn't the mint team it's the Ubuntu or Debian team that needs to be thanked and encouraged for their work.
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killer de bug
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Re: Why are my applications not the latest possible version?

Post by killer de bug »

Lessss wrote:Making the jump from v0 to v16 after it's been in the repos for 13 years isn't a frozen software selection, it's a fossilized one. [...]

Again I'm not saying we need the latest versions at all times but maybe once every two or five years the top X(3,5 or 10) programs of each category could be looked at to see if the version can be advanced while maintaining stability.
Once every 2 years, there is a new base and therefore new library versions. Therefore, what you are asking is already the current process.

As for Kdenlive, please see the release history to understand the jump:
v15.03.80 commit ac8c6741e9... Albert Astals Cid 2 years
v0.9.10 commit ef5f9202c9... Vincent PINON 2 years

https://cgit.kde.org/kdenlive.git/refs/tags

Linux Mint 17 is based on Ubuntu 14.04. Base was frozen at the end of 2013. Expect a version number around 0.9.6.
Linux Mint 18 is based on Ubuntu 16.04. Base was frozen at the end of 2015. Expect a version number around 15 or early 16.

I don't see any problem here. Debian and Ubuntu package maintainers are doing a really good job. If you want to make sure that your favorite software are well maintained, you can join their team. It is not really difficult. And everyone will be happy of your support.
If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.
sudarshan0564
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Re: Why are my applications not the latest possible version?

Post by sudarshan0564 »

I compile my apps from source, to get updated.
Can anybody tell me is it possible to get updated software using any upstream repo in just two lines ?
Cosmo.
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Re: Why are my applications not the latest possible version?

Post by Cosmo. »

If you compile yourself, you have the sole responsibility for the software, inclusive updating.
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orcus
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Re: Why are my applications not the latest possible version?

Post by orcus »

Could be this forum is the wrong addressee - but I've to start somewhere - and yes - i read the first post (and some of the replies) ...

I noticed that the EnigMail extension (1.8.2) for ThunderBird (45.8.0) does not update to the current version (1.9.7) as expected - others like Lightning and DKIM Verifyer are in the expected Versions (for TB 45.8.0)

The EnigMail- and Mozilla-site state both the plugin would be fine for TB 38.0 - 52.* - see https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/thunde ... il/?src=ss

Looking at TB about:config filter extensions.update.url delivers:
https://versioncheck.addons.mozilla.org ... ILITY_MODE%

Which makes me guess that someone - mozilla-, enigmail- or mint-team ??? - propably has forgotten to update the according version-info there - as far I can see the dependency to gpg2 - installed version gpg (GnuPG) 2.0.26 - should satisfy the needs of EnigMail.

Yes I would like to have some of the extra-features of the newer version (I'm guilty regarding this) but what hit's me more is the bugfix-list of EnigMail since version 1.8.2.

System: Host: xxxxx Kernel: 3.16.0-4-amd64 x86_64 (64 bit) Desktop: Cinnamon 3.2.7 Distro: LinuxMint 2 betsy

regards - orcus
orcus - by the light of the night
Cosmo.
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Re: Why are my applications not the latest possible version?

Post by Cosmo. »

You must not apologize, because you want the newer version of Enigmail. It is one of the bad examples, where those types of packages in the official repositories are badly - better said: not - maintained. Those packages should not even exist there.

Close TB completely, than remove the enigmail package with the help of synaptic. Go to the website of the developer and download the extension. Open inside of TB the add-on manager, click near the top the icon and select to install an extension from a file.

One caveat: For the newest versions of Enigmail it is mandatory to have gpgp2; you should have got a notice about it already in the past. If you do not have gpg2 already installed do this at first; you can take gpg2 from the official repositories. Important notice: Do never remove the already installed gpg (1) from the system, otherwise your package management will break. gpg and gpg2 can coexist happily side by side.
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orcus
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Re: Why are my applications not the latest possible version?

Post by orcus »

thx :-( for the fast reply
=============
@others/readers

<edit says>
Uninstall Default-Version and Install the current version of EnigMail seems to keep your/mine keys...
..but it wont be a bad idea to make a backup of your keys anyway...
+ there is an issue regarding interference of gnome keyring (agent) and gnupgp (which can be fixed) - see below
</edit says>

If you - who is right now thinking of updating to the current version of EnigMail - ) should have a backup of your personal keys - especially your private key - as loosing them would result in loosing access to already received encrypted mails ...

In case you already stored your personal keys - escpecially your private key - in an external (and secure) location you could skip step 1.

Beforehand removing the current Version of EnigMail I made following backups - open menu Enigmail|Key Management; within the displayed dialog

1) Select your key(s) - the one(s) showing up bold - select menu File|Export Keys To File; in the following Message Box press button Export Secret Keys
(and not the preselect "Export Public Keys only") - choose a safe/secure Location (not a public accessible folder) and save it.

2) If you already received others public keys it might be good to save them too:
(back in the dialog) select all other - public - keys and select menu File|Export Keys (no Message Box will show) - choose a location (has not to be that secure) and save the "Exported-Public-Keys.asc"-File

In case you require your keys after Reinstall of the current version of EnigMail you can import them from the above files later.

gnome keyring agent
intercepts the communication between gnu pgp and clients (which is bad from a security point of view)
and might/will lead to problems when EnigMails is accessing the keys (there is another variant of the problem not related to gnome keyring agent, which I don't handle here, as it didn't hit me)

Details:
https://enigmail.net/index.php/en/faq?view=topic&id=14 (expand Resolving issues...)
Solution:
https://wiki.gnupg.org/GnomeKeyring

or as copy/paste here:

Globally disable gnome keyring - read above link first (as it might have further unintended consequences with Networkmanager)

Code: Select all

sudo dpkg-divert --local --rename --divert /etc/xdg/autostart/gnome-keyring-gpg.desktop-disable --add /etc/xdg/autostart/gnome-keyring-gpg.desktop
Reenable gnome keyring with

Code: Select all

sudo dpkg-divert --rename --remove /etc/xdg/autostart/gnome-keyring-gpg.desktop
If you want to disable gnome keyring on a per user base - there are further links regarding that in the above link of gnupgp.org.


cu - orcus
orcus - by the light of the night
Tim-int
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Re: Why are my applications not the latest possible version?

Post by Tim-int »

I hope this is the right place to ask what I asked already, but on release topics, where I didn't get a proper answer. Like viewtopic.php?f=143&t=171461#p888459 and viewtopic.php?f=228&t=113683#p762522. Still, there may have been a good reply "AFAIK we are lacking a volunteer..".

What is exact Mint policy for LibreOffice, what versions we may expect through update. Current LO in Mint 18.2 is 5.1.6 and stable LO is 5.2.7.
Looks to me that it's simple Ubuntu but for me it's wrong, because Ubuntu goes with new LO versions in their distros and Mint should have their own policy.
What I deem important and recommend for mass deployment is to upgrade to LO x.y.last versions as they become available (and that's Still 5.2.7 now) and NOT to upgrade to Fresh like 5.3.x at least until 5.3.4 or 4.3.5 because those early versions are buggy.

I'm aware I personally can add PPA, but that's not the right answer. And besides, PPA policy is also not clear to me, https://launchpad.net/~libreoffice/+archive/ubuntu/ppa doesn't list 5.2 at all now.
Even https://launchpad.net/~libreoffice/+arc ... office-5-2 gives only 5.2.5~rc1 for xenial and 5.2.6~rc2 solely for yakkety so double not proper for Mint 18.2.

I'm satisfied with Mint and I use it as my primary Linux distro (although I really use Windows at work). But I'm not clear how to address those issues, like ideas and suggestion. I'm not aware Mint has some bugzilla. I see people writing in release notes and that's fine for some early feedback and bugs, but not for issues like this one.
MintBean

Re: Why are my applications not the latest possible version?

Post by MintBean »

Mint releases are based on Ubuntu LTS (Long Term Support Releases) and use two sets of repositories:

The Ubuntu repository of the LTS release - this is where the vast bulk of your software comes from.
The Mint specific repository - this is where the Mint specific software comes from - Xapps, Cinnamon, Update Manager etc.

So the Mint policy for LO is this - stick with the version that is in the Ubuntu LTS repository for the life of the Mint series. So for example, Mint 18.x are all based on Ubuntu 16.04 Xenial and use the version of LO in that repository.

You can raise an idea in the ideas section of the forum but the reality is that this is VERY unlikely to change. Mint is not in the business of packaging applications (other than the ones they develop) and they rely on upstream. To do otherwise would require a lot of manpower.
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MtnDewManiac
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Re: Why are my applications not the latest possible version?

Post by MtnDewManiac »

Tim-int wrote:What is exact Mint policy for LibreOffice, what versions we may expect through update. Current LO in Mint 18.2 is 5.1.6 and stable LO is 5.2.7.
Looks to me that it's simple Ubuntu but for me it's wrong, because Ubuntu goes with new LO versions in their distros and Mint should have their own policy.
What I deem important and recommend for mass deployment is to upgrade to LO x.y.last versions as they become available (and that's Still 5.2.7 now) and NOT to upgrade to Fresh like 5.3.x at least until 5.3.4 or 4.3.5 because those early versions are buggy.

I'm aware I personally can add PPA, but that's not the right answer. And besides, PPA policy is also not clear to me, https://launchpad.net/~libreoffice/+archive/ubuntu/ppa doesn't list 5.2 at all now.
Even https://launchpad.net/~libreoffice/+arc ... office-5-2 gives only 5.2.5~rc1 for xenial and 5.2.6~rc2 solely for yakkety so double not proper for Mint 18.2.
You can try referencing this page:
https://launchpad.net/~libreoffice/+archive/ubuntu/ppa
Specifically, look for the PPA that has a designation of "Still" (formerly stable, which - according to Wikipedia - is "the final bugfix of the previous major version, which has had several months of bug fixing and is recommended for users for whom stability is more important than enhancements. These are also referred to as "released" versions.") In this case, I'm assuming that "Still" is short for "Still Supported."

Also, if you are still using LibreOffice 5.2.x, please note that, according to the web page I provided the link to, the 5.2.x versions are EOL (End of Life).

If you wish to have the current most recent Still ("stable") version at all times, you'll most likely have to resign yourself to checking that web page once in a while and, upon need, changing the LibreOffice PPA that you use. As far as I can tell, the LO developers do not maintain one Fresh and one Still PPA that occasionally experience major version changes but, instead, have a separate PPA for each major version. So what is "Fresh" today could become "Still" tomorrow (and will certainly become so at some point in the future) - and, therefore, so could the specific PPA that hosts that particular version series.

And this is IF I understand things correctly. I wouldn't guarantee that.

Regards,
MDM
Mint 18 Xfce 4.12.

If guns kill people, then pencils misspell words, cars make people drive drunk, and spoons made Rosie O'Donnell fat.
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