[SOLVED] TimeShift Vs Backup Tool

[blueicetwice]

I am using TimeShift currently, but would appreciate some advice and opinions whether or not Backup Tool should also be used as well

I believe TimeShift does not save applications which Backup Tool does.

Thanky for any replies

AndyMH or is it Mr Foxclone, is the best He should have received the Linux Software Development Prize!

[manyroads]

[attempt at humor] To me this sounds a bit like a belt & suspenders type of question. You can wear both if you like. The only reason to choose a second is if you don't trust the first. That begs the question of why would you keep the one you didn't trust, when you could simply backup to two different devices? [/attempt at humor]

Having said that, do what makes you most comfortable. Personally, I use GRsync and Dropbox. I take two completely different backup approaches (one for local storage and one for distance) Gotta say, I'm just a belt & suspenders kind of guy.

[cliffcoggin]

Timeshift only backs up your system not your data, so yes you do need another backup utility such as Backup Tool.

[manyroads]

Here's some detail on what Timeshift can do:
==> viewtopic.php?t=306628
==> https://github.com/teejee2008/timeshift
==> https://www.fossmint.com/backup-restore ... timeshift/
==> https://www.itzgeek.com/post/how-to-bac ... timeshift/

[sdibaja]

I have used both TimeShift and Backup Tool in the past.
Neither do what I want.

I prefer LuckyBackup for backup copies, to local drives and on my LAN.

For offsite I use Syncthing. I only sync Copies of my data. Never my originals.

On the offsite machines LuckyBackup making Copies for redundancy.

reinstall is trivial. I keep notes so I cam replicate from scratch if needed.

[TI58C]

Legitimate question. Not entirely new. Bit of a "groundhog day" feeling. There have been long discussions about this subject and everybody seems to have their own preferred (and of course the one and only best) way of making backups.

My 2 cents:

NO, do not go along with the "belt and suspenders" thinking. A second way is NOT because you do not trust the first one, but because it has a different purpose. And yes, also because you do not (entirely) trust the first. AND YOU WILL BE RIGHT. Backup media fail too! Always it will be that one, important, irreplacable file that is corrupted. One backup is no backup. And two backups on one hdd / in one fysical place is just one backup. Single point of failure.
And, storage being so cheap now, why not ?

Clonezilla "clone" of sdd/hdd means that I have quick, total recovery if my laptop's ssd fails. Just some screws and new ssd. But saving / restoring takes a while (bash dd speed).

Timeshift (system only) means that if I f*** my linux system (because I'm stupid), I can quickly restore it. A kernel problem, lost panels, cannot remove an installed program, no problem. USB boot + timeshift.
Note that if you use timeshift to backup home/root tree, your home-dir will be reverted to how it was when backup was made too. all changes since then lost.
That is why I use timeshift for system only.

Backup tool to save (most) of applications and home-dir, It is Mint standard, so probably quite high-quality

And you can combine them ! If ssd fails, restore clonezilla from month ago. Then restore latest timeshift system backup on top. Finish with latest backup of home-dir and enjoy Mint as it was.

BUT:
Use ny own backup-script (rsync-based) for all files in/below home-dir. Almost daily copies (each per date in separate dir, incremental, only changes are actually written, rest hard-linked)
Use bash one-liner to create a "reinstall" bash file that will re-install (most) of installed packages, and show error in log for installed .deb-files and such.
Why ? Because I know exactly what these scripts do and do not do. My code. If it lets me down, it's MY problem.
Do not have links to these earlier threads at this moment, maybe later if anyone is interested.

The best way to make backups is different for every one of us. For me, the most important consideration is that the files that are important to me are in my home-directory.
These files, be it documents, foto's, articles, spreadsheets, databases, whatever, are almost always in a standardized format. txt, pdf, odt,xlsx sh.
That means that i can use almost any system to access them if I must. Linux box, Win 10 pc, yes, even my iphone. Keep one backup of home-dir on an extfat ssd for win/apple. Lose permissions. But files are accessible.

A nice, fine-tuned system That does exactly what and how you want is a precious thing (gollem gollem)..But it is a luxury.

WHAT DO YOU NEED IIN / FROM YOUR BACKUP-PROCEDURES ???

[blueicetwice]

[attempt at humor] To me this sounds a bit like a belt & suspenders type of question. You can wear both if you like. The only reason to choose a second is if you don't trust the first. That begs the question of why would you keep the one you didn't trust, when you could simply backup to two different devices? [/attempt at humor]

Why the question, manyroads, because I am a dolt and not sure whether these programs have different functions.

[blueicetwice]

Timeshift only backs up your system not your data, so yes you do need another backup utility such as Backup Tool.

Ciff, this is what I thought I had read somewhere in time. How many hours are complied in selecting additional software and then lost

This is something I wish to avoid, as there will be a system failure in the future.

[blueicetwice]

Here's some detail on what Timeshift can do:
==> viewtopic.php?t=306628
==> https://github.com/teejee2008/timeshift
==> https://www.fossmint.com/backup-restore ... timeshift/
==> https://www.itzgeek.com/post/how-to-bac ... timeshift/

Manyroads, thanks for the manylinkies! The last one was the most detailed and best. I checked to see if my TimeShift was setup according to their instruction and it was. I am bookmarking itzgeek, as it was very informative and well formatted.

[blueicetwice]

I have used both TimeShift and Backup Tool in the past.
Neither do what I want.

I prefer LuckyBackup for backup copies, to local drives and on my LAN.

For offsite I use Syncthing. I only sync Copies of my data. Never my originals.

On the offsite machines LuckyBackup making Copies for redundancy.

reinstall is trivial. I keep notes so I cam replicate from scratch if needed.

Sdibaja, I will look into LuckyBackup. I am not sure whether or not it is an improvement over the other two programs.

[cliffcoggin]

Timeshift only backs up your system not your data, so yes you do need another backup utility such as Backup Tool.

Ciff, this is what I thought I had read somewhere in time. How many hours are complied in selecting additional software and then lost

This is something I wish to avoid, as there will be a system failure in the future.

Indeed there will be a failure at some point. Although Timeshift can be made to back up data it is the wrong tool for the job and will result in loss of data from the time of the most recent snapshot to the time of restoration. That is why a data backup is also needed. Trust has nothing to do with it.

There is plenty of choice in the repository for this function, and all of us have our own favourite depending on the degree of automation required, location of backup (internal or external), ease of restoration etc. Look back at previous similar topics in the forum for a hundred opinions on what is the "best" tool.

[blueicetwice]

Legitimate question. Not entirely new. Bit of a "groundhog day" feeling. There have been long discussions about this subject and everybody seems to have their own preferred (and of course the one and only best) way of making backups.

My 2 cents:

NO, do not go along with the "belt and suspenders" thinking. A second way is NOT because you do not trust the first one, but because it has a different purpose. And yes, also because you do not (entirely) trust the first. AND YOU WILL BE RIGHT. Backup media fail too! Always it will be that one, important, irreplacable file that is corrupted. One backup is no backup. And two backups on one hdd / in one fysical place is just one backup. Single point of failure.
And, storage being so cheap now, why not ?

Clonezilla "clone" of sdd/hdd means that I have quick, total recovery if my laptop's ssd fails. Just some screws and new ssd. But saving / restoring takes a while (bash dd speed).

Timeshift (system only) means that if I f*** my linux system (because I'm stupid), I can quickly restore it. A kernel problem, lost panels, cannot remove an installed program, no problem. USB boot + timeshift.
Note that if you use timeshift to backup home/root tree, your home-dir will be reverted to how it was when backup was made too. all changes since then lost.
That is why I use timeshift for system only.

Backup tool to save (most) of applications and home-dir, It is Mint standard, so probably quite high-quality

And you can combine them ! If ssd fails, restore clonezilla from month ago. Then restore latest timeshift system backup on top. Finish with latest backup of home-dir and enjoy Mint as it was.
BUT:
Use ny own backup-script (rsync-based) for all files in/below home-dir. Almost daily copies (each per date in separate dir, incremental, only changes are actually written, rest hard-linked)
Use bash one-liner to create a "reinstall" bash file that will re-install (most) of installed packages, and show error in log for installed .deb-files and such.
Why ? Because I know exactly what these scripts do and do not do. My code. If it lets me down, it's MY problem.
Do not have links to these earlier threads at this moment, maybe later if anyone is interested.

The best way to make backups is different for every one of us. For me, the most important consideration is that the files that are important to me are in my home-directory.
These files, be it documents, foto's, articles, spreadsheets, databases, whatever, are almost always in a standardized format. txt, pdf, odt,xlsx sh.
That means that i can use almost any system to access them if I must. Linux box, Win 10 pc, yes, even my iphone. Keep one backup of home-dir on an extfat ssd for win/apple. Lose permissions. But files are accessible.

A nice, fine-tuned system That does exactly what and how you want is a precious thing (gollem gollem)..But it is a luxury.

WHAT DO YOU NEED IIN / FROM YOUR BACKUP-PROCEDURES ???

TI58C, I think your point is redundancy. Considering the hours it take for a fresh install and its customization, not to mention the loss of saved data
redundancy should be the point of order. Yes, I do have my TimeShift setting as you recommended, to save to the home-dir.

What do I want from my "backup?" To save as much of my complete Mint operating system as well as programs and data. This is why I also have used
Foxclone to do a ISO of my system. We all have AndyMK to thank you his wonderful software I should add, that his documentation was nothing short of par excellent.

So I plan to do redundancy times three.

[blueicetwice]

Indeed there will be a failure at some point. Although Timeshift can be made to back up data it is the wrong tool for the job and will result in loss of data from the time of the most recent snapshot to the time of restoration. That is why a data backup is also needed. Trust has nothing to do with it.

There is plenty of choice in the repository for this function, and all of us have our own favourite depending on the degree of automation required, location of backup (internal or external), ease of restoration etc. Look back at previous similar topics in the forum for a hundred opinions on what is the "best" tool.

Cliff, you are a wise man! I agree, "Trust has nothing to do with it." I have had to many crashes or borked system and have countless hours restoring these systems.

[Moem]

[attempt at humor] To me this sounds a bit like a belt & suspenders type of question. You can wear both if you like. The only reason to choose a second is if you don't trust the first. That begs the question of why would you keep the one you didn't trust, when you could simply backup to two different devices? [/attempt at humor]

It's really not a 'belt and suspenders' type of thing. It's more like belt and shoelaces. Timeshift creates restore points that allow restoring a borked system; backup tools (of which Timeshift is not one) allow making backups of data. They are simply different things.
The reason I wear a belt is not because I don't trust my shoelaces. And having an extra pair of shoelaces (a backup to a second device) does not mean that you don't need a belt anymore.

Not sure where the humour was supposed to be but that may just be me.

[sdibaja]

I have used both TimeShift and Backup Tool in the past.
Neither do what I want.

I prefer LuckyBackup for backup copies, to local drives and on my LAN.

For offsite I use Syncthing. I only sync Copies of my data. Never my originals.

On the offsite machines LuckyBackup making Copies for redundancy.

reinstall is trivial. I keep notes so I cam replicate from scratch if needed.

Sdibaja, I will look into LuckyBackup. I am not sure whether or not it is an improvement over the other two programs.

yes, do have a look. LuckyBackup has a ton of options, some are a bit obscure.
I have been using it for years and kinda learned what I have just by messing around and screwing up.
Two things I use it for on all of my machines:
1. Most Important! scheduled automatic backups, using multiple profiles. These happen on staggered schedules, some daily, some monthly, etc.)
I keep a log/index of the automated backups for the various machines. If I want/need to get something old I can go find it and grab a copy.
2. accumulative backup, and current. (one copy with new files added retaining old cruft... second copy of the current state of affairs)
I fat finger and delete things I really want. Belt and suspenders.

*** another cool tool: FSlint
search and delete duplicates. again, lots of options. Very handy for compiling archive copies

[blueicetwice]

[attempt at humor] To me this sounds a bit like a belt & suspenders type of question. You can wear both if you like. The only reason to choose a second is if you don't trust the first. That begs the question of why would you keep the one you didn't trust, when you could simply backup to two different devices? [/attempt at humor]

It's really not a 'belt and suspenders' type of thing. It's more like belt and shoelaces. Timeshift creates restore points that allow restoring a borked system; backup tools (of which Timeshift is not one) allow making backups of data. They are simply different things.
The reason I wear a belt is not because I don't trust my shoelaces. And having an extra pair of shoelaces (a backup to a second device) does not mean that you don't need a belt anymore.

Not sure where the humour was supposed to be but that may just be me.

Moem, our resident sage. Simple but brilliantly put.

[blueicetwice]

Sdibaja, I just finished using "The Backup Tool" and placed the tar file on the desktop; which I am not sure is the right place.

Hear is another question regarding backups. Mint 20.1 is on its own HDD, but I also have a second HDD drive which contains both Solus and Manjaro OSs.

Should I do the same procedure with the latter two OSs [second HDD] or should they also be saved to the first HDD [Mint 20.1]?

[sdibaja]

Sdibaja, I just finished using "The Backup Tool" and placed the tar file on the desktop; which I am not sure is the right place.

No, that is not the correct place.
That is like having a second house key in another pocket.... If something happens to your OS or the disk dies you have Nothing.
save it on a Separate Drive.
and Internal drive is very good if you have a multi drive machine... but if that computer is gone so are Both copies.
another copy OFF machine is much better. put it on a External USB, thumb drive, etc. ... or even on Someone Else's Computer (Dropbox, Mega, etc.)
Off site is even better! Like at your brother's home or something.
*bunches of copies, redundancy, like on other important things (airplanes for example)

You should be able to copy and use that tar file just about anywhere.
I do Not know if you Must have that Mint "backup tool" to restore it or not.
it would be a shame if Mint is not available and they have they only too.

a common tar file can be opened and used on just about anything, Windows, some other Linux, Apple, etc.
I would Verify That before considering that tar file as useful. (Clem does not always do things like the mainstream systems.)

[AndyMH]

An alternative to luckybackup is backintime which is what I use.

[blueicetwice]

My attempt to use LuckyBackup failed.

Now I will try "Disks" from the Mint 20 OS and see how it works.

https://www.addictivetips.com/ubuntu-li ... tallation/

This link gives instructions as well a video. One should also read reader's comments.

At this point, I believe AndyMH's, Foxclone is still the best, with great documentation and pictures.