Pros and cons of Timeshift

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t42
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Pros and cons of Timeshift

Post by t42 »

Isn't timeshift creates as many problems as it solves? Never had a chance to use it as it always being purged on the first boot here but forum's posts suggest as much. Unbootable systems are prevailing due to the poor configuration and the lack of specific free space monitoring by the application itself.
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Pros and cons of Timeshift

Post by Moem »

t42 wrote: Tue Feb 07, 2023 7:18 am Isn't timeshift creates as many problems as it solves?
No, it doesn't. It just needs to be configured smartly, so that it does not overfill the root partition. Poor configuration will give poor results, but that's hardly unexpected.
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Re: Timeshift does not respond and I need to restore another snapshot

Post by rene »

t42 wrote: Tue Feb 07, 2023 7:18 am Isn't timeshift creates as many problems as it solves?
I say so, yes, with its free-space gobbling the first and foremost such problem, as again here. The thing even explicitly insists on having a local device to fill up even if it in at least rsync mode would have no issue using NFS (which is what I backup to with... rsync).
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Re: Timeshift does not respond and I need to restore another snapshot

Post by Artim »

I have ended up deleting Timeshift (until it's ready for prime time, perhaps) and using systemback instead. It's trouble-free and has another feature that Timeshift doesn't yet offer: Write to thumbdrive!
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Re: Timeshift does not respond and I need to restore another snapshot

Post by SMG »

Artim wrote: Tue Feb 07, 2023 1:34 pm... has another feature that Timeshift doesn't yet offer: Write to thumbdrive!
What does this mean? I've been saving my snapshots on a thumbdrive for years. I take snapshots manually and only attach the drive when I'm using Timeshift.
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Re: Timeshift does not respond and I need to restore another snapshot

Post by Artim »

I was unclear, sorry... it allows you to save a copy of your existing system and write it a thumbdrive as a bootable .iso.
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Re: Timeshift does not respond and I need to restore another snapshot

Post by coffee412 »

I would find it very helpful if TS would backup to a Networked Server. Is that possible yet or just local drives?
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Re: Timeshift does not respond and I need to restore another snapshot

Post by mikeflan »

TS needs a lot of space (if you consider 20 - 30 GB a lot of space), and does not make that obvious. Other than that, it works great with the default settings, or (I am told) saving to a separate disk on the same system. So far, nobody has figured out a way to save snapshots to a networked server.
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Re: Timeshift does not respond and I need to restore another snapshot

Post by rene »

mikeflan wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 11:41 am So far, nobody has figured out a way to save snapshots to a networked server.
Well, actually, so far everybody except Timeshift has figured out a way to save snapshots to a networked server. Specifically all it in its rsync mode wants from a filesystem are hard links and NFS supports those fine. Timeshift not allowing its snapshot directory on NFS has from the beginning made sure it was to me useless.
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Re: Pros and cons of Timeshift

Post by Moem »

Mod note:
Split off from the support thread viewtopic.php?f=90&t=391105 because the asker is probably not interested in so much detail.
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Re: Pros and cons of Timeshift

Post by rene »

Heck, I doubt that asker is interested in the subject at all anymore... :lol:
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Re: Pros and cons of Timeshift

Post by ThaCrip »

While not strictly 'pro and con' related to Timeshift...

I rely on an occasional Clonezilla image instead which is a rock solid way to get a computer back to a working state should something get out of whack on your boot drive and as a bonus it does not take up more space on the boot drive since I use Clonezilla to make a image of the boot SSD to a image file on another hard drive I have. but I realize what I do won't be a option for everyone as not everyone has more than one hard drive.

but one potential negative with Clonezilla is while it's images are a rock solid way to restore things to good running order, when you restore a image it will be EXACTLY like it was when you imaged it. meaning, any files added or changed since you imaged it will be deleted, which could be a potential negative for some people. but generally speaking Mint updates don't seem to cause any show stopper issues, so I don't need to restore a image much. but it's mainly nice for that occasion you might start experimenting a bit as if things get out of whack or you don't like anything, simply restore the image and all of the experimenting you did it's like it never happened.

but before doing any point release updates on Mint, I always image it with Clonezilla before doing it as a 'just in case' sort of thing.
rene wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 1:21 pm Heck, I doubt that asker is interested in the subject at all anymore... :lol:
Yeah, lol. but I might as well add in my 2 cents now that things have drifted off topic a little ;)
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Re: Pros and cons of Timeshift

Post by AZgl1800 »

I use Foxclone by Andy, same results.

Except Foxclone is a GUI and 100% easier for 99% of us folks to use.

every time, I tried Clonezilla, I destroyed things
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Re: Timeshift does not respond and I need to restore another snapshot

Post by Lady Fitzgerald »

Artim wrote: Tue Feb 07, 2023 1:34 pm I have ended up deleting Timeshift (until it's ready for prime time, perhaps)... :shock:
Seriously? Not ready for prime time? That will be shock to the thousands (or more), including me, who use it without problems all the time. As Moem mentioned, you have to configure it correctly. There are multiple ways one can configure it, which to use depending on how one wants to use and how one sets up their system. also, you can set it up to automatically take snapshots on a schedule and automatically cull older snapshots. I much prefer to take and cull the snapshots manually.
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Re: Timeshift does not respond and I need to restore another snapshot

Post by AZgl1800 »

Lady Fitzgerald wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 10:15 pm
Artim wrote: Tue Feb 07, 2023 1:34 pm I have ended up deleting Timeshift (until it's ready for prime time, perhaps)... :shock:
Seriously? Not ready for prime time? That will be shock to the thousands (or more), including me, who use it without problems all the time. As Moem mentioned, you have to configure it correctly. There are multiple ways one can configure it, which to use depending on how one wants to use and how one sets up their system. also, you can set it up to automatically take snapshots on a schedule and automatically cull older snapshots. I much prefer to take and cull the snapshots manually.
I think you under estimated how many use Timeshift without ANY problems period,
I suggest the number is closer to 100s of thousands....

the ONLY way it won't work, is to mess up the Storage Location, it MUST be put on a Dedicated Partition that is always available.
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Re: Pros and cons of Timeshift

Post by Dullard du Jour »

If TimeShift was such a piece of crap I have to wonder why we often see members here asking a person to restore or backup with TS. I have used TS for two and a half months so far and never a problem...but I did read the instructions and set it up properly. There is one auto full backup a day, held for 30 backups and a boot backup held for 5 backups. I have restored with these and all went well. I have a 500 gig SSD that I save too with an average of 300 gig free at any given time. That also includes the occasional Dua Dup and Mint backup. If TS is not working for someone then they have it set up wrong, pretty much. If someone goes on the cheap and want to save their backups to a 32 gig Ebay thumb drive then that is on them and they have zero complaints when restoreals fail.

The problem is that most folks just simply do not set TS up properly, do not have adequate backup space and, have unrealistic expectations of TS. Dua Dup, Mint Backup, TS, Clonezilla, Foxclone all work quite well if set up properly. But, there is always those few individuals that decide they need some special feature that only they and a few others will use. Fine...but do not complain about TS, simply learn to code and write your own program or, use another program. But don't moan about TS.

Rant over. :)
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Re: Pros and cons of Timeshift

Post by rene »

Lou77 wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 12:52 am If TimeShift was such a piece of crap I have to wonder why we often see members here asking a person to restore or backup with TS.
Timeshift isn't "a piece of crap" but that's also not what anyone suggested that it was: (split-off) thread-starter wondered whether or not it "creates as many problems as it solves" -- something which I tend to believe it does: how many situations are ever helped by Timeshift anyway vs. how many are decidedly unhelped by the thing filling up the root filesystem? we certainly see more of those -- and then me and one other person added that it being incapable of having its snapshot directory on e.g. NFS makes it pretty useless to us in the first place.

And yes, I'm very sure that now multiple, deep woodworks shall be come out of by multiple "members here" to tell us how vewyvewy saved they regularly have been by Timeshift -- but I am here to tell you that they and perhaps including you are completely full of it: backing up is a hobby turned religion for many and not something that in especially the case of system backups as per Timeshift, i.e., not personal data backups, actually does much in practice. It may make conceptual sense but e.g. system updates that "needed" it due to some distribution-sides foul-up have not in fact and as far as I remember happened ever since the thing was introduced on Mint years ago for that specific reason back when the level-system was dropped.

Leaves people blowing up their own systems but personally I do definitely hold that simply not doing such may often be a significantly better solution than duplicating one's system a few times over somewhere so as to be able to copy any of it back into place -- and especially without the thing being very vocal about e.g. a root partition perhaps not being the best spot to keep those system copies.
Lou77 wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 12:52 am Rant over. :)
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Re: Pros and cons of Timeshift

Post by Pjotr »

Lou77 wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 12:52 am There is one auto full backup a day, held for 30 backups and a boot backup held for 5 backups.
That's overkill.... :wink:

My recommendation is this: in case of automatic snapshots, limit the number of kept snapshots to two. Make them with a monthly interval; more frequent than that is usually nonsensical.

Personally, I only make snapshots by hand (I see no need for automation). One after setting up the system the way I like it, and one some six months later. Then never again.

Barring the rare exception, nobody needs more than two snapshots. Even if the snapshot you restore is quite old: simply run Update Manager after the restoration and your system will be up to date in almost no time at all.
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Re: Timeshift does not respond and I need to restore another snapshot

Post by Lady Fitzgerald »

AZgl1800 wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 12:12 am
Lady Fitzgerald wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 10:15 pm
Artim wrote: Tue Feb 07, 2023 1:34 pm I have ended up deleting Timeshift (until it's ready for prime time, perhaps)... :shock:
Seriously? Not ready for prime time? That will be shock to the thousands (or more), including me, who use it without problems all the time. As Moem mentioned, you have to configure it correctly. There are multiple ways one can configure it, which to use depending on how one wants to use and how one sets up their system. also, you can set it up to automatically take snapshots on a schedule and automatically cull older snapshots. I much prefer to take and cull the snapshots manually.
I think you under estimated how many use Timeshift without ANY problems period,
I suggest the number is closer to 100s of thousands....

the ONLY way it won't work, is to mess up the Storage Location, it MUST be put on a Dedicated Partition that is always available.
I agree I probably underestimated the number of problem free users (hence the addition of "or more").

I disagree about Timeshift snapshots MUST be in a dedicated partition. I store my snapshots in a folder along with other folders files on one of my data drives that have only the one partition and haven't had any problems.

Where one can mess up is if the folder that stores the snapshots is in /home. If one doesn't set up and/or maintain the number of snapshots to be retained properly, then the folder can take over the available space, essentially locking one out. There's no harm in using a dedicated partition to store snapshots but I have strong feelings about using partitioning to organize or segregate data, especially when using just folders works more efficiently.
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Re: Pros and cons of Timeshift

Post by Lady Fitzgerald »

Pjotr wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 5:41 am
Lou77 wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 12:52 am There is one auto full backup a day, held for 30 backups and a boot backup held for 5 backups.
That's overkill.... :wink: ...
I totally agree but, then again, it's usually better to have something and not need it than to not have something and need it. :wink:

Pjotr wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 5:41 am ...Personally, I only make snapshots by hand (I see no need for automation)...
I also agree with that and only manually make and cull my snapshots. However, not everyone is capable of (or is willing to) remembering (or being bothered) to manually make and maintain snapshots. Those people will benefit from automation.
Pjotr wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 5:41 am
Lou77 wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 12:52 am There is one auto full backup a day, held for 30 backups and a boot backup held for 5 backups.
...My recommendation is this: in case of automatic snapshots, limit the number of kept snapshots to two. Make them with a monthly interval; more frequent than that is usually nonsensical.

Personally, I only make snapshots by hand (I see no need for automation). One after setting up the system the way I like it, and one some six months later. Then never again.

Barring the rare exception, nobody needs more than two snapshots. Even if the snapshot you restore is quite old: simply run Update Manager after the restoration and your system will be up to date in almost no time at all.
That I totally disagree with. You are an advanced user and have probably forgotten more about how to use Mint than most of us will ever know. However, many of us are still in the newbie to intermediate stage (compared to you, I'm still a newbie) and will be frequently making changes to our systems, not mention making mistakes. Having more than just two snapshots can save us a lot of time and grief.

How many snapshots should be made and retained will vary from person to person, based on their knowledge levels and the amount of room they can spare for storing snapshots. I have plenty of data storage space so I don't worry about how many snapshots I have and how long I keep them.

As mentioned earlier, I manually make and cull my snapshots (I currently have eight of them but that number fluctuates). I make one every Monday morning, name it "Weekly" in the Comments column, and store the snapshot in a folder on one of the data drives in my computer (again, I do not believe in using partitions to organize and/or segregate data). At the same time, I make another one that gets stored on the backup drive of that data drive. I keep all the weekly snapshots for that month until after I've made the first weekly snapshot or two of the next month, then I delete all but the first week of the now previous month. I only keep around six months of first of the month weekly snapshots (which is a bit overkill—three months would probably be enough for me—but I have plenty of room).

Also, before making a settings change, installing or removing a program, or installing a potentially dodgy update, I make a snapshot and name it in the Comments for the reason I made the snapshot, such as "Before NVIDIA Update". If, after a month or so has passed without needing that snapshot, I delete it.

I cull any unneeded snapshots once or twice a month (as the mood strikes me) while I still have Timeshift opened up for making a weekly snapshot.

Again this schedule is what meets my needs and either will be overkill for some people or inadequate for others.
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