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Why no option to control volume over 100%?

Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2014 8:27 pm
by cdysthe
Hi,

On Ubuntu there's an option in the sound settings to allow to set volume over 100%. This settings is important to me since I then can set full volume using the media keys on my laptop. On Mint I can only control it to what is decided as being 100% and if I want to go over that, something I often have to when playing movies, I have to open sound settings. Is there a reason this option isn't present on Mint?

Re: Why no option to control volume over 100%?

Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2014 8:44 pm
by all41
You did not say which desktop.
Cinnamon--click on the speaker icon on the panel and select sound settings.
Click the application tab and move the volume slider up.
Now hover over the speaker icon and you will see sound level increased to over 150%.
In Mate it is right click on the icon and select sound preferences and move the volume slider up

Re: Why no option to control volume over 100%?

Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2014 9:52 pm
by cdysthe
Hi,

Yes, Cinnamon. My laptop has volume up and down buttons I use all the time. On Mint they only take the volume up to 100% so if I want it louder playing a movie I have to open the sound settings and if I touch the volume buttons again it pops down below 100% again. On Ubuntu there's a setting to allow volume control above 100% so I can use the buttons and the volume slider directly. See image attachment.

That check box is missing in Linux Mint so I have to open sound settings all the time as you described it but would rather not have to and use the slider or buttons up to full volume over 100%

Re: Why no option to control volume over 100%?

Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 4:08 pm
by Hoser Rob
I've never actually tried to make the system volume go over 100% because for listening to music I want maximum quality and for that you should never use anything but 100% system volume.

But for some video files I do want more than that and I do it with my video software. That's almost always SMplayer but any video player should allow this.

Re: Why no option to control volume over 100%?

Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 4:52 pm
by cdysthe
I've tried with both VLC and SMplayer but prefer being able to control the volume all the way up using the volume buttons on my laptop. A laptop will never have very good sound regardless. For now I'll just stick to Ubuntu on my Thinkpads since microphone toggle doesn't work in Mint either but works on Ubuntu. Ubuntu Mate is like Mint anyway with the added convenience of full multi media button support on my laptops.

Re: Why no option to control volume over 100%?

Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 7:35 am
by Hoser Rob
You definitely can get more than 100% with vlc or smplayer and still use the system volume. Easy.

I rarely use vlc so I'll use smplayer as an example. Turn on global volume, smplayer volume control. Set max to 200% or more. Max the smplayer volume control. Then use the panel volume control. Easy as pie. I've done it myself many times with videos whose audio levels were low.

Re: Why no option to control volume over 100%?

Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 8:34 am
by cdysthe
Thanks. For some reason that method causes distortion on my laptops and I still have the problem when watching Netflix and other streaming services like YouTube. I'm hoping Mint adds this little check box in the sound preferences at some point and I will be right back also on those of my computers that has multimedia buttons.

Re: Why no option to control volume over 100%?

Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 12:20 pm
by Hoser Rob
It will always cause some distortion but shouldn't be that much. I set player volume (when necessary) to 200%. That's probably best for quality. But I'm not as fussy with the audio in video files as I am with music ...

Re: Why no option to control volume over 100%?

Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 12:25 pm
by deleted
And all along I thought it just went to 11 ;)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOO5S4vxi0o

-Hinto

Re: Why no option to control volume over 100%?

Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 12:26 pm
by cdysthe
hinto wrote:And all along I thought it just went to 11 ;)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOO5S4vxi0o

-Hinto
I should have seen that one coming! Great! :)

Re: Why no option to control volume over 100%?

Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 12:30 pm
by cdysthe
Hoser Rob wrote:It will always cause some distortion but shouldn't be that much. I set player volume (when necessary) to 200%. That's probably best for quality. But I'm not as fussy with the audio in video files as I am with music ...
I do not know why but when I use the normal volume control to control the volume above 100% I have far much distortion than if I use the player volume. Might have to do with my laptops (they are all Thinkpads). So I would like to see that little check box being available in Mint like it is in Ubuntu. Interestingly enough I am not having this problem in KDE where I can use the normal volume control all the way up to as loud as it goes. Who decides what 100% is anyway? :)

Re: Why no option to control volume over 100%?

Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 1:32 pm
by Hoser Rob
100% volume is set by the recording standard, and it's important for quality.

Generally app software volume controls don't work as well as the OS or DE volume controls. Of course neither may work well, and that's a function of whoever wrote the software, not the computer brand.

I actually avoid using any software volume controls if possible. I use the analog volume on my small amp. That's actually what the wiki at benchmarkmedia suggests. The only exception I make is for video that's too quiet.

The basic problem is that all digital effects, including volume, can and often do distort the signal. The idea that you can manipulate digital audio all you want and not lose quality is nonsense.

Why do you think they record CDs in 24 bit when they know it'll be sold as 16 bit? So all the digitization noise and distortion caused by effects and eq is below the 16 bit lsb level.

Re: Why no option to control volume over 100%?

Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 1:49 pm
by cdysthe
Hoser Rob wrote:100% volume is set by the recording standard, and it's important for quality.

Generally app software volume controls don't work as well as the OS or DE volume controls. Of course neither may work well, and that's a function of whoever wrote the software, not the computer brand.

I actually avoid using any software volume controls if possible. I use the analog volume on my small amp. That's actually what the wiki at benchmarkmedia suggests. The only exception I make is for video that's too quiet.

The basic problem is that all digital effects, including volume, can and often do distort the signal. The idea that you can manipulate digital audio all you want and not lose quality is nonsense.

Why do you think they record CDs in 24 bit when they know it'll be sold as 16 bit? So all the digitization noise and distortion caused by effects and eq is below the 16 bit lsb level.
Thank you for a great explanation around the issue of volume! However, when my kids want to watch a movie and want to turn the volume up the way they know how and can in Ubuntu and Windows I won't get away with explaining why you can't in Mint. :)

Re: Why no option to control volume over 100%?

Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 12:14 pm
by Hoser Rob
An obvious thing I forgot to mention before is to try different audio output modules for your video players. That can make a real difference sometimes. I get a lot more volume in smplayer switched to alsa than pulse. But that may be because I was using an external usb card. Still worth a try.

Re: Why no option to control volume over 100%?

Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 12:19 pm
by cdysthe
That's true. My problem is that these laptops are used by children and computer illiterate people who do not understand why they can't get it loud enough and have to open settings to get the volume further up. I do not like to have to do that either, but I do at least understand how to do it! :)

Re: Why no option to control volume over 100%?

Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2014 9:22 am
by Hoser Rob
Have you tried the player setting to normalize audio by default? That may help.

Re: Why no option to control volume over 100%?

Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2014 10:04 am
by cdysthe
Hoser Rob wrote:Have you tried the player setting to normalize audio by default? That may help.
Thanks. I just tried that and it works until you touch the volume control buttons. Then it pops back down under 100% and I have to get back I to spend setting to get the volume back up.

Re: Why no option to control volume over 100%?

Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2015 7:37 pm
by WinterTroubles
cdysthe

I just discovered a reference to an alternative sound applet for cinnamon called 'sound with apps volume' and decided to check it out.. Guess what, it gives you the option to enable the volume slider all the way up to 150% with a 'sticky' spot at 100% when using a scroll wheel so you don't accidentally go over 100% if you need quality over volume. It is now in use on my system and the volume slider works as advertised. You can download and install it directly from the 'applets' window of system settings.


Kinda thought it might be of interest :mrgreen:
WT

Edit.. scrolling over the panel icon also goes up to 150% (when enabled in the applet settings) with the same 'sticky' spot.